Need help finding an A/V Receiver that will work with an external EQUALIZER? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 11-21-2012, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys, been looking to upgrade my older (analog ports only) Denon receiver but I can't find
one that supports an external Equalizer...

Can someone help and even better, point with links or picture to WHERE on the receiver the equalizer would be connected
so that all sound goes through it and back into the receiver. I LIKE to adjust the sound to how I want it to sound.

The equalizer would have RCA connectors more than likely.

SOmething under 300 bucks please and modern so with a good bit of hdmi ports and preferrably
some hdmi or usb ports in the front.

From what I understand, that aren't many out there but now with black friday around the corner, now would be
a good time to find one I would thinkg.

Thanks

George
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post #2 of 25 Old 11-21-2012, 04:21 PM
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Not feasible..
The old receivers used to have Tape/Processor loops for connecting devices such as an EQ, NR unit or 3-head tape deck..
But these are not permitted by Dolby as they affect the level to the surround decoder and can corrupt it....
The only way to connect an EQ is between the AVR's Pre-Outs (front L/R) and Main-Ins of an external amplifier...

Just my $0.02.. wink.gif
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post #3 of 25 Old 11-21-2012, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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THanks. Is there any chance you can snatch a picture for a little show and tell so that I understand what to look for?
Maybe draw some arrows or something?

DOes every modern unit have the pre outs and main ins to do this>

Thanks

George
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post #4 of 25 Old 11-24-2012, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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When looking at pics of the back of this receiver, I see (zoom in) where it says VIDEO and there are two rows of rca connectors, one says audio in and audio out. Don't suppose
you could plug an equalizer into those connectors?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882105672

I also found a receiver that HAS an equalizer option (page 51 in the manual)
http://www.retrevo.com/support/Denon-AVR-791-Receivers-manual/id/23693ag505/t/2/

Can anyone tell me if there are other receivers under $300 that will do this?

Found one on ebay but got outbid.

Thanks

George
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post #5 of 25 Old 11-24-2012, 08:34 PM
 
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The Yamaha receivers have a 7 band graphic EQ in the models 573 and below. The higher models have a parametric EQ for even better tweaking. There are still some great deals on last years models. Last Years model 671 just had a black friday special of $299 and has the parametric EQ. I bet this will show up again.
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post #6 of 25 Old 11-24-2012, 11:57 PM
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External equalizers are very obsolete. They were replaced long ago internal DSP-based equalizers, which have themselves been largely replaced by various automatic room equalization systems.

While you can find AV receivers with internal equalizers like that AVR-791 or the receivers BobL mentioned, you're not going to find anything modern that will work with your old external equalizer. Aside from being obsolete and redundant a two channel equalizer fundamentally isn't going to work with multichannel AV receiver.
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post #7 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 02:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

The Yamaha receivers have a 7 band graphic EQ in the models 573 and below. The higher models have a parametric EQ for even better tweaking. There are still some great deals on last years models. Last Years model 671 just had a black friday special of $299 and has the parametric EQ. I bet this will show up again.

How about some of these? Organized by price http://www.newegg.com/Receivers/SubCategory/ID-488?Pagesize=100&Order=PRICE

I guess the parametric is when you have a mike to adjust the sound with?
That's all good but if I want to add some more volume in the mid to high range where the treble usually is, this is my only way to do it, right?
The reason I'm looking for an equalizer is to be able to CHANGE the sound so it suits me, IF I should want to.
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post #8 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 02:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

External equalizers are very obsolete. They were replaced long ago internal DSP-based equalizers, which have themselves been largely replaced by various automatic room equalization systems.
While you can find AV receivers with internal equalizers like that AVR-791 or the receivers BobL mentioned, you're not going to find anything modern that will work with your old external equalizer. Aside from being obsolete and redundant a two channel equalizer fundamentally isn't going to work with multichannel AV receiver.

Note, I currently only have TWO speakers and have no real intention of getting more as I like the two speaker set up.

Keep in mind that I probably don't want to do things the way most people today would do them and so the advice
for me should probably be different than for most people.

Thanks

George
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post #9 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 02:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

The Yamaha receivers have a 7 band graphic EQ in the models 573 and below. The higher models have a parametric EQ for even better tweaking. There are still some great deals on last years models. Last Years model 671 just had a black friday special of $299 and has the parametric EQ. I bet this will show up again.

Just found this one on newegg and it only has a 5 band equalizer. That starts getting too rough/coarse or not enough bands for me (YAMAHA RX-V373BL)
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post #10 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 04:36 AM
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You can find stereo receivers with Main In and Pre Out for your equalizer but you're not going to find a AVR with that feature.

The problem is that a stereo receiver will not have HDMI inputs. If that doesn't matter to you then get this Harman Kardon 3490
http://www.wwstereo.com/Harman-Kardon/HK3490?gclid=CPaa8JKA6rMCFUdxQgodGn4Ayg



You can see the Main In/Pre Out in the bottom row left of the speaker terminals as I circled them.
Quote:
I also found a receiver that HAS an equalizer option (page 51 in the manual)
http://www.retrevo.com/support/Denon-AVR-791-Receivers-manual/id/23693ag505/t/2/

Any Audyssey based receiver will allow you to do that. My Denon AVR 591 will too. There are several steps to get to that menu though, so it wont be as easy as using an external EQ and sliding the levels up and down. It will also be darn near impossible to do w/o using the On Screen Display.

Like mentioned above Yamaha receivers have EQ settings you can adjust also.I believe Pioneer receiver with MCACC with let you adjust the parameters also. But still none will let you add your external equalizer.

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post #11 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Nah, the whole purpose of this little exercise is to get one with hdmi ports since my Denon DRA-775RD doesn't have any and my other stuff
is nothing but hdmi. Yeah, I can get by with RCA but hdmi will be so much easier.

By the way, why won't equalizers work with the newer ones with hdmi ports?

So, forget the eq stuff and just get me a receiver that's nice then?

Thanks

George
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post #12 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 06:59 AM
 
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You don't need measurement equipment to adjust a parametric EQ. You can season to taste just like a graphic EQ but you can have more precise tweaking. You can use a parametric EQ as a graphic EQ but you pick the frequecy you want to adjust and how much you want to boost or cut just like a graphic EQ but then you pick how many frequencies around that center frequency you want to adjust called the Q. The Yamaha only has limited selection for this anyway or about the equivalent of a 1/3 octave graphic EQ (~30 band EQ) and can adjust from ~ 1/7 to 2.5 octaves wide. Once you pick the frequency you pick the 'Q' or how many octaves you want to affect. To be the equivalent of a 30 band EQ(1/3 octave) your Q would be ~4, to be the equivalent of a 10 band EQ( 1 octave) the Q would be ~1.5 or you can change the Q to your desire. This will even allow more precise tweaking.
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post #13 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 07:02 AM
 
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Im not sure what your sources are but if you are only using two channel you could just run L/R cables to a stereo receiver and the HDMI to the TV. That's if your sources have have L/R outputs. That way you can still use your current EQ with a nice stereo receiver. It would make switching a little harder as you would have to switch the TV and receiver but this could be an option if you like your EQ.
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post #14 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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By the way, I have the pre out and main in on my Denon. IF I should stick with it, which way do I connect an equalizer? Pre out to the eq and back into the main in?

Is there any disadvantage other than connectivity with sticking with rca if I can say, connect all my stuff to RCA with or without adapters of some sorts?

I like the option to play pandora straight through the receiver like you can on the Pioneer 1022-K but most of that stuff isn't necessary for me
as these days, I don't do much listening. It's mostly tv and cable. Thinking if I should just save my money and keep my old denon.

Say, can you recommend anything CHEAP that sounds good that has all the hdmi connections?

I found my buddy a good deal on the Pioneer 1022-k and he loves his so I thought maybe I'd get the same.
There are advantages with having the same unit but not sure if I really need it other than WANTING it.
Sure, I don't have to have all kinds of adapters and I don't have to wonder why things don't sound right,
why the thing hums when connected to certain units and so on but I've kinda gotten things hooked up right
now and it seems to be working for me.

Any thoughts?

They do have that one on special, still

George
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post #15 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

You don't need measurement equipment to adjust a parametric EQ. You can season to taste just like a graphic EQ but you can have more precise tweaking. You can use a parametric EQ as a graphic EQ but you pick the frequecy you want to adjust and how much you want to boost or cut just like a graphic EQ but then you pick how many frequencies around that center frequency you want to adjust called the Q. The Yamaha only has limited selection for this anyway or about the equivalent of a 1/3 octave graphic EQ (~30 band EQ) and can adjust from ~ 1/7 to 2.5 octaves wide. Once you pick the frequency you pick the 'Q' or how many octaves you want to affect. To be the equivalent of a 30 band EQ(1/3 octave) your Q would be ~4, to be the equivalent of a 10 band EQ( 1 octave) the Q would be ~1.5 or you can change the Q to your desire. This will even allow more precise tweaking.

Sorry but I didn't understand a thing frown.gif
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post #16 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

Im not sure what your sources are but if you are only using two channel you could just run L/R cables to a stereo receiver and the HDMI to the TV. That's if your sources have have L/R outputs. That way you can still use your current EQ with a nice stereo receiver. It would make switching a little harder as you would have to switch the TV and receiver but this could be an option if you like your EQ.

Well, I have tv, computer, wd tv live media player, cable box and that's about it. TV for some reason has NO rca's and only a stinkin' 3.5mm audio out which I have connected to rca adaptors and I also got an HDMI to rca cable
for that hdmi port on my tv that does both in and out, whatever it's called.

Cable has both hdmi and rca

WD TV has hdmi and 3.5mm out and the puter
has 3.5mm out and a coax connector and an optical connector which the Denon has.

I make due but it's a bit of a hodge podge kinda setup and it kinda pisses me off.

I do have a Matrix switch that's all rca that I could use I guess to make things simpler but I wanted
to upgrade my stuff with a new receiver and get a modern matrix switch with hdmi ports so that I can run
my computers and other things to any tv/screen.

I have one computer, one server, a separate video surveillance computer, so I want to be able to run
some of those things on different screens with as few cables as possible.

My video cards do both dvi and hdmi and so do my screens.

Will a graphic layout help out in any way?

THanks
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post #17 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Which one would you recommend for the same price?

YAMAHA RX-V373BL 5.1-Channel AV Receiver

Pioneer VSX-1022-K 7.1-Channel 3D Ready A/V Receiver
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post #18 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 08:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guiri View Post

By the way, I have the pre out and main in on my Denon. IF I should stick with it, which way do I connect an equalizer? Pre out to the eq and back into the main in? YES

Is there any disadvantage other than connectivity with sticking with rca if I can say, connect all my stuff to RCA with or without adapters of some sorts? Not at this level of equipment.

I like the option to play pandora straight through the receiver like you can on the Pioneer 1022-K but most of that stuff isn't necessary for me
as these days, I don't do much listening. It's mostly tv and cable. Thinking if I should just save my money and keep my old denon.

Say, can you recommend anything CHEAP that sounds good that has all the hdmi connections? Look for closeouts on higher end models or used.

I found my buddy a good deal on the Pioneer 1022-k and he loves his so I thought maybe I'd get the same.
There are advantages with having the same unit but not sure if I really need it other than WANTING it.
Sure, I don't have to have all kinds of adapters and I don't have to wonder why things don't sound right,
why the thing hums when connected to certain units and so on but I've kinda gotten things hooked up right
now and it seems to be working for me.

Any thoughts?

They do have that one on special, still

If they still have the 671 on special for $299 that is a good receiver for the money. A definite step up from the Pioneer 1022 or Yamaha 373.

George
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post #19 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 08:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guiri View Post

Which one would you recommend for the same price?

YAMAHA RX-V373BL 5.1-Channel AV Receiver

Pioneer VSX-1022-K 7.1-Channel 3D Ready A/V Receiver

The Pioneer at the same price. The Yamaha RX-V473 would be a better comparison to the that model of Pioneer.
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post #20 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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..but also more than I want to spend. I just found a used Denon AVR-791 for $200 which has all the connections I need and the equalizer option built in.
Would that not be a better fit for me>

Granted, it's used but from my experience, this stuff doesn't break often.
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post #21 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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What about the Pioneer at 250 and the Denon at 200. Which would you recommend?

I still want that equalizer but I'm curious.
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post #22 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

The Yamaha receivers have a 7 band graphic EQ in the models 573 and below. The higher models have a parametric EQ for even better tweaking. There are still some great deals on last years models. Last Years model 671 just had a black friday special of $299 and has the parametric EQ. I bet this will show up again.

Page 90 in the english manual (4th link down). From looking at the graphic and from the text, it says something about "select a center frequency" I don't understand that but can I not
put the seven different frequency settings where I want each one without making the spiked curve I see in the graphic?
That's not what I necessarily want.

Found them from $300 to 1400 (??) on ebay.
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post #23 of 25 Old 11-25-2012, 06:07 PM
 
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With a graphic EQ you pick the slider and raise it up or down or the graphic display of the slider. The slider corresponds to a a frequency and will make a curve peaked at the frequency of the slider. The curve has a fixed width with graphic EQ. With parametric EQ you pick the frequency, it isn't a set one like the slider of a graphic EQ. Then you can decide how narrow or wide to make the curve, that is what the Q setting does of a parametric EQ. For an example.

Lets say you raise the 2khz and 4khz +5db on a graphic EQ. On a parametric EQ I could use one band and set the frequency to 3khz and make it wide enough to cover the same frequencies as two or more sliders of the graphic EQ. You can also make a very tall and narrow curve to precisely fix other problems.

For $300 the 671 is tough to beat especially for manual EQ capability, plus the scene functions are nice. For $200 the 791 is a bargain. It has a one octave graphic EQ to tweak, while not as sophisticated as the Yamaha it would be easier to adjust. I think you would enjoy either.
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post #24 of 25 Old 11-26-2012, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you sir. Gonna go for this used 791 from craigslist. Hope it turns out ok.

Anyone have a Fedex or UPS shipper number I could use for a good shipping price
so I won't have to pay $100 in shipping?

Again, thanks for the help smile.gif

George
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post #25 of 25 Old 11-27-2012, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I think I've found a receiver that'll suit me, the Denon AVR-1613.

Enough inputs and a 9 band equalizer and at around $300 refurbed with one year warranty or $350 direct with optional
extended warranty options.
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