Why don't I get enough bass from my sub with music compared to movie? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-21-2012, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
curttard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Using Yamah RX-V2700 receiver. Subwoofer works fine with 5.1 movies. For example, the Daft Punk soundtrack in Tron:Legacy sounds awesome. However, when I play the actual soundtrack from my music collection (2ch stereo PCM), the subwoofer is barely budging and it sounds weak as hell. The subwoofer *is* putting out some bass, but very very little. If I really crank the sub, I can get it close to the movie version, but not very -- and obviously I don't want to have to do that, because then one day I forget, play a movie, and blow my sub.

I've tried the various modes. The "enhanced" modes sound somewhat better but also processed; I don't want the sound affected really.
curttard is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-21-2012, 08:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chashint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 40
The sound track CD is not the same as the sound track of the DVD, it won't have the LFE.

Regards,
Charlie

chashint is offline  
Old 11-21-2012, 08:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
NorCalJason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
You're hearing the difference in "mix".

When studios engineer the sound for a Movie, they mix a specific track for just the subwoofer. This is called ".1"

When studios engineer the sound for a CD, they mix only 2 full range channels.

The short of it is... You hear more bass because there is more bass..

biggrin.gif
NorCalJason is offline  
Old 11-21-2012, 11:32 PM
Newbie
 
tirefoamcan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I'm not familiar with the Yamaha receivers, but I had a similar problem with my Denon.

I had the crossovers set to full band on my left and right, which effectively did not send anything to the sub when in stereo mode. I had to set my speakers to small, and set a crossover.

Movies have the specific .1 channel that sends the LFE right to the sub, so you'll get the bass in movies, but 2 channel has no specific bass channel and the receiver needs to know what frequency to start sending signal to the bass.
tirefoamcan is offline  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:05 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
curttard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Hmm. I've got the speakers set to Small and the crossover set. The sub's working, just not much. Nor is there any real bass coming out of the L and R.

I understand the different mixes and the .1, but it's seriously almost impossible to get any kind of bass with music. I have to max out the volume on my sub or on the sub output from the receiver. Otherwise it's entirely lacking in any kind of low end, even for bass-heavy stuff like the aforementioned Daft Punk. Is this what everyone does, drastically change the sub volume whenever they go from movies to music and back?
curttard is offline  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:43 AM
 
anwaypasible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: illinois
Posts: 391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
subwoofer volume levels using different settings for each mode?

got something turned on when watching a movie that makes the subwoofer more loud?
anwaypasible is offline  
Old 11-22-2012, 02:13 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
curttard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 27
I didn't even think to see if subwoofer levels are saved per mode (2ch stereo, 5.1, etc). I'm pretty sure in the GUI there are only global options though. I'll check, though; thanks.

No extra stuff turned on for one mode versus another; I have everything on the "Straight" setting.
curttard is offline  
Old 11-22-2012, 02:31 AM
 
anwaypasible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: illinois
Posts: 391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
if everything was on the 'straight' ...then i would be looking at the audio file in a visual window to see any difference in the bass area.

sometimes the digital crap from the movie disc is really amped up dumb like an energy drink.
they put in everything they've got when doing the audio because there is some time that goes by and not a whole lot that needs to be done.
..or you are talking about the texture between the flour of two different room echoes not making a match, as if you are one API away from enough rest to enjoy a snack.

makes me think it is a dvd problem and a sensitive subwoofer amp.


this really shows another place about needing the equalizer done.
is it really all of the signal boosted up loud, or is there lots of peaks and dips that are hiding data in the communication from the subwoofer?

to say..
you could make the cone talk to you, but you could be missing some of the signal from the wire as if placing your hand over the other person's mouth while they are trying to talk.
(peaks and dips will do that to you)

i just kinda woke up and rubbed my eyes, went to parts express and seen they have equalizers with distortion numbers low enough to work for studio goal|aim.
anwaypasible is offline  
Old 11-22-2012, 09:12 AM
Advanced Member
 
NorCalJason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Hmm. I've got the speakers set to Small and the crossover set. The sub's working, just not much. Nor is there any real bass coming out of the L and R.
I understand the different mixes and the .1, but it's seriously almost impossible to get any kind of bass with music. I have to max out the volume on my sub or on the sub output from the receiver. Otherwise it's entirely lacking in any kind of low end, even for bass-heavy stuff like the aforementioned Daft Punk. Is this what everyone does, drastically change the sub volume whenever they go from movies to music and back?

There just isn't a lot of low bass energy in music.

With my sub I find myself turning it down during movies. wink.gif
NorCalJason is offline  
Old 11-22-2012, 09:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
NorCalJason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Something else you might consider...

Bass frequencies love to interact with your room, creating uneven bass response.

A subwoofer EQ might allow you to tame these peaks, and increase your overall gain yet still remain balanced.
NorCalJason is offline  
Old 11-22-2012, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
curttard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 27
I guess another reason this concerns me is that a lot of the walkthroughs I've read for setting up your subwoofer for your home theater suggest playing music (2ch) and then adjusting the subwoofer level until the bass sounds good, then this will supposedly be a good level for movies. If I did that, had it at a good spot for music, it would blow the cone (and probably blow out my windows) as soon as I put on a movie.
curttard is offline  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kikkenit2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 89
When a receiver is set to "pure direct" or "straight" the bass sounds are not sent to the subwoofer.
Set the receiver to 2 channel stereo and it will process to 2.1 with proper room delay and eq turned on.
All the bass should play from the subwoofer. If subwoofer is set to "both" then all speakers will play bass notes.
Paper manual pages 51 and 53 explain best. Not sure about bypassing all the "enhancers" at that point.
kikkenit2 is offline  
Old 11-22-2012, 01:43 PM
 
anwaypasible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: illinois
Posts: 391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I guess another reason this concerns me is that a lot of the walkthroughs I've read for setting up your subwoofer for your home theater suggest playing music (2ch) and then adjusting the subwoofer level until the bass sounds good, then this will supposedly be a good level for movies. If I did that, had it at a good spot for music, it would blow the cone (and probably blow out my windows) as soon as I put on a movie.

you really have zero idea about what 'good' is for music.
they give you some flavor of candy and you dont even begin to know what color the flavor gush is about to be.. even when the instrument sounds real and live on stage, you dont know how far away the microphone was when they strip the sound of distance out of audio just like they strip the visuals of distance out of the video.
not really compression.. just extra data on a list in a notebook waiting to be heard when the bit depth goes up again.
anwaypasible is offline  
Old 11-23-2012, 04:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chashint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I guess another reason this concerns me is that a lot of the walkthroughs I've read for setting up your subwoofer for your home theater suggest playing music (2ch) and then adjusting the subwoofer level until the bass sounds good, then this will supposedly be a good level for movies. If I did that, had it at a good spot for music, it would blow the cone (and probably blow out my windows) as soon as I put on a movie.

I have never read a walk through that described setting up a sub using this method.
Please post a link.

Regards,
Charlie

chashint is offline  
Old 11-23-2012, 07:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 9,963
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Using Yamah RX-V2700 receiver. Subwoofer works fine with 5.1 movies. For example, the Daft Punk soundtrack in Tron:Legacy sounds awesome. However, when I play the actual soundtrack from my music collection (2ch stereo PCM), the subwoofer is barely budging and it sounds weak as hell. The subwoofer *is* putting out some bass, but very very little. If I really crank the sub, I can get it close to the movie version, but not very -- and obviously I don't want to have to do that, because then one day I forget, play a movie, and blow my sub.
I've tried the various modes. The "enhanced" modes sound somewhat better but also processed; I don't want the sound affected really.

What brand/model is the subwoofer..
If it has a X-over frequency control, make sure this is set to the highest frequency such as 250Hz ...
The actual subwoofer X-over filter will be done in the AVR...


Just my $0.02... wink.gif
M Code is offline  
Old 11-26-2012, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
curttard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 27
The sub amp is actually blown. I'm going from sub out of my receiver to another receiver, and then speaker out from that receiver directly to the sub speaker. The crossover is handled in the first receiver. To be clear, the sub IS working during music, just not much unless I crank the sub volume.
curttard is offline  
Old 11-26-2012, 10:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mogorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 4,480
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

The sub amp is actually blown. I'm going from sub out of my receiver to another receiver, and then speaker out from that receiver directly to the sub speaker. The crossover is handled in the first receiver. To be clear, the sub IS working during music, just not much unless I crank the sub volume.

Why don't you just get the sub amp repaired? tongue.gif
mogorf is offline  
Old 11-26-2012, 12:35 PM
Advanced Member
 
NorCalJason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
If your sub amp is blown... It won't work at all... What's up with the funky setup?
NorCalJason is offline  
Old 11-28-2012, 01:58 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
curttard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 27
No money!

It does work. The sub's amp is out of the chain entirely. Sub out from receiver to receiver #2. Speaker out from receiver #2 directly to sub speaker. Trust me, it works. Puts out plenty of bass with movies. Puts out decent bass with music if I crank up receiver #2, or the sub output of receiver #1.

Considering doing the Epik Legend deal that's going on right now, but I assume this won't change the fact that receiver #1 still is not sending any appreciable amount of bass to the sub during even the most bass-heavy music.
curttard is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off