Pioneer Elite VSX-51 for $299.99 or Wait for Denon AVR-1913 sub $300? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 11-25-2012, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys

Ok so i just grabbed an Elite VSX-51 off of an Amazon lighting deal for $299.99. I had been waiting on a sub 300 deal on a 1912/1913, but jumped on this one when i saw the price and that it was an elite model (I had been eyeing the 1122k also).

Unfortunately I am not finding a lot of info about the quality of this model.... Not really sure if I would be missing out on anything by skipping the Denon. Any info you guys have would be appreciated.

product link
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/VSX-51
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post #2 of 31 Old 11-25-2012, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bishop_161 View Post

Hey guys
Ok so i just grabbed an Elite VSX-51 off of an Amazon lighting deal for $299.99. I had been waiting on a sub 300 deal on a 1912/1913, but jumped on this one when i saw the price and that it was an elite model (I had been eyeing the 1122k also).
Unfortunately I am not finding a lot of info about the quality of this model.... Not really sure if I would be missing out on anything by skipping the Denon. Any info you guys have would be appreciated.
product link
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/VSX-51

I jumped to look at this deal too but the reviews scared me away
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post #3 of 31 Old 11-25-2012, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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yeah I think im about to cancel. $300 is a great deal but no warranty....
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post #4 of 31 Old 11-25-2012, 07:32 PM
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Bump. Just got this one too. Not finding much info online either. Anyone know how similar / different it is to the VSX 52? Biggest difference I can see is the lack of THX certification...
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post #5 of 31 Old 11-25-2012, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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ok cancelled it. Not worth the risk. Thanks anyway.
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post #6 of 31 Old 11-25-2012, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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From what I can tell it is a "nicer" version of the 1021k.

The warranty was the kicker for me. I know the odds of failing are unlikely but its bugged me.
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post #7 of 31 Old 11-25-2012, 07:43 PM
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I was looking at that too, the non-dealer thing is interesting. I was really turned off that it didn't have any of the net-supported music that doesn't get added until the 60 from what I can see... looked good, but maybe not so.
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post #8 of 31 Old 11-25-2012, 07:46 PM
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I'm in the same boat as you guys. I've been looking at Pioneer SC-1222-K, but the 1 year warranty makes me not wanting to take a chance. I'm keeping my eyes open for Cyber Monday. If I see any good sales I will post them on this thread.
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post #9 of 31 Old 11-25-2012, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

I'm in the same boat as you guys. I've been looking at Pioneer SC-1222-K, but the 1 year warranty makes me not wanting to take a chance. I'm keeping my eyes open for Cyber Monday. If I see any good sales I will post them on this thread.

same here as well... bought a full system and just haven't found a good receiver deal
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post #10 of 31 Old 11-25-2012, 07:56 PM
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One of the feature I am looking at is the Multiq XT. So, hopefully, I'll find one with it on Cyber Monday sale.

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post #11 of 31 Old 11-25-2012, 07:57 PM
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The Denon 1913 was just on sale for $288 during Black Friday at Fry's.

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post #12 of 31 Old 11-25-2012, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

The Denon 1913 was just on sale for $288 during Black Friday at Fry's.

I know, i wanted it soo bad. But unfortunately no FRY's in Louisiana.
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post #13 of 31 Old 11-25-2012, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

The Denon 1913 was just on sale for $288 during Black Friday at Fry's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop_161 View Post

I know, i wanted it soo bad. But unfortunately no FRY's in Louisiana.

The closest Fry's for me is about 4.5 hours away. By the time I drive over there, the AVR's would of been sold out and using gas would probably be better just to buy it on sale online.

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post #14 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 01:43 AM
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Newegg.com has the Denon 1913 for $499.99, which in my opinion is not a really good buy at that price. Here's the link if anyone wants it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1K50FA9292

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post #15 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 02:57 AM
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Additionally, Newegg is NOT a Denon authorized reseller, so no valid mfr's warranty, rather you would have to deal with Newegg directly for any warranty issues. frown.gif

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post #16 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Additionally, Newegg is NOT a Denon authorized reseller, so no valid mfr's warranty, rather you would have to deal with Newegg directly for any warranty issues. frown.gif

Yeah I have decided only to go with a vendor who is authorized. I don't want to be **** out of luck in 75 days is **** starts failing.

Im upgrading from a good ole trustworthy ONKYO TX-SR603X. Its been running strong 6+ years. But it is dated.

I'm looking in the sub $350 range for something that will pack a punch in quality and features.

7.1
Audyssey
4 or more hdmi out
Airplay with album art on screen
video up-scaling
3d pass through
At least one assignable optical in


With this list I know i'll probably be waiting for a while. Hopefully I'll catch a deal soon!
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post #17 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Pioneer 1022-k is only 249 right now at the egg (authorized)

tempting....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117410

but no audyssey and this from cnet
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
To test the AVR-1913's power reserves we fired up the "Quantum of Solace" Blu-ray, and the sound of the car chase, with James Bond (Daniel Craig) thrashing the hell out of his Aston Martin sports car, was thrilling. The metal-against-metal crashes and heavy gunfire exchanges were played in all their glory, even when we turned the volume higher than usual. Jack White's "Another Way to Die" Bond theme song did nothing to change our opinion of the AVR-1913's capabilities. A quick switchover to the Pioneer's VSX-1022-K was a letdown, because the sound was a pale imitation of what we heard over the AVR-1913. The VSX-1022-K sounded slightly dull, with flabbier bass and restricted dynamic punch.
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post #18 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop_161 View Post

Pioneer 1022-k is only 249 right now at the egg (authorized)
tempting....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117410
but no audyssey and this from cnet Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
To test the AVR-1913's power reserves we fired up the "Quantum of Solace" Blu-ray, and the sound of the car chase, with James Bond (Daniel Craig) thrashing the hell out of his Aston Martin sports car, was thrilling. The metal-against-metal crashes and heavy gunfire exchanges were played in all their glory, even when we turned the volume higher than usual. Jack White's "Another Way to Die" Bond theme song did nothing to change our opinion of the AVR-1913's capabilities. A quick switchover to the Pioneer's VSX-1022-K was a letdown, because the sound was a pale imitation of what we heard over the AVR-1913. The VSX-1022-K sounded slightly dull, with flabbier bass and restricted dynamic punch.

I had the VSX-1022-k for 8 hours. I returned it to Best Buy. Best Buy price matched the $249.99 price. I think the VXS-1122 and SC-1222 might be a better buy, but they only have 1 yr warranty.

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post #19 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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what was your impression of the 1022-k? why did you return it?
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post #20 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop_161 View Post

what was your impression of the 1022-k? why did you return it?

The main reason why I returned it was the online radio sound. It would not let me use the sub at all. Also, the sound was horrible it sounded like my speaker tweeters were going to explode and it popped at times. The UI and the remote was pretty bad too many functions assigned to single buttons. The Android / iPhone AVR app was nice, but at times it would not work, and it wouldn't recognize the AVR.

Movies wise the sound was excellent no issues there. My wife and I like listening to Pandora. If it wasn't for that I would of kept it just for movies alone. I've heard from other 1022 owners that they didn't have the same issues as I've had. For $250 it isn't a bad receiver.

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post #21 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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yeah thats what i was thinking.

Amazon has the 1713 down to 350 right now. Im thinking about jumping on that. I would loose 2 of my speakers since it is a 5.1 instead of 7.1, but im not ruining a true 7.1 anyway (I just have two bookshelf speakers on top of two floor standing speakers). I would also get audyssey multieq xt which would be a nice perk. Would lose out on video up scaling though...
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post #22 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 09:52 AM
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yeah thats what i was thinking.
Amazon has the 1713 down to 350 right now. Im thinking about jumping on that. I would loose 2 of my speakers since it is a 5.1 instead of 7.1, but im not ruining a true 7.1 anyway (I just have two bookshelf speakers on top of two floor standing speakers). I would also get audyssey multieq xt which would be a nice perk. Would lose out on video up scaling though...

The Denon AVR-1712 is a 7.1 with Audyssey MultEQ XT for $389.99 here's the link:
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-1712-Surround-Receiver-Black/dp/B004ZP72MU/ref=sr_1_4?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1353952234&sr=1-4&keywords=denon+1713 It is not a network AVR though.


It's weird that the 1712 gets the Audyssey MultEQ XT, but the 1913 doesn't.

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post #23 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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post #24 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 10:13 AM
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That's an excellent price and AVR for a 5.1 set up. I need 7.1 though. frown.gif

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post #25 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Did you see the upcoming Marantz NR1602 on amazon lighting deals? Seems like a reboxed 1912. I think if this fall sub 400 i might bite.
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post #26 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop_161 View Post

Did you see the upcoming Marantz NR1602 on amazon lighting deals? Seems like a reboxed 1912. I think if this fall sub 400 i might bite.

It's only 50W per channel.

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post #27 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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This was posted by another member: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1403531/official-marantz-nr1602-owner-and-buyer-thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

I'd say that I'm a bit surprised that this receiver wasn't more popular, but I can understand why it isn't. I fills the very specific need of "Denon AVR1912, but shorter". I say "Denon 1912" because that is essentially what it is. Anybody coming along later wondering what people think of this receiver, just go look at the enormous Denon AVR1912 thread. Any joys and annoyances that you will find there will hold true here for the Marantz NR1602. They are both made by the same company, contain the same software, and are extremely feature similar. The only real variances are the output power of 50W/channel versus 90W/channel, and 4-port HDMI switching instead of 6-port. This receiver exists for the people that want to fit the 1912 feature set in to a

Doing a quick search for "NR1602" in this forum shows a concern that the receiver is only 50W. One post even claims that it will only reliably spit out 23W on the test bench. Let's assume this is true, and let's also assume that the AVR1912 spits out a perfect 90W all the time. What does this actually mean in the real world? Normally nothing, as most listening, especially when paired up with a powered sub, never exceeds a couple of watts. According to entry-level audio theory, it takes twice the power to cause a 3db increase in volume. This puts the difference between 23W and 90W at roughly 6db.


Let's do some quick back-of-the-napkin math!
Using perfectly average 89db/W efficiency speakers at say 8 feet, that puts you at roughly 4W required to reach reference levels of 85db. 85db is of course freaking loud, and the vast majority of us don't use much more than 75db in our homes, with a power requirement closer to 0.5W. Going the other direction, 90W lets you reach roughly 99db with this fictional setup, while the NR1602's 23W still gives you a "GODDAMN THAT'S LOUD!" 93db.


In short: 23W versus 90W means very little, and 50W versus 90W means even less. The power rating is not a reason to skip over this receiver.


So, I've had mine for about a month now. Audyssey MultiEQ is fantastic. AirPlay is close to magic. The build quality is not nearly as good as the Yamaha RX-V2500 that it replaced, but it's also a $650 MSRP receiver versus $1100 MSRP. I wish it had dropped most of the analog inputs in favor of the two extra HDMI inputs that the AVR1912 has. The thing looks great, and more importantly actually fits in my new stand. The UI is convoluted and is poorly documented, as all Denons that I have ever touched are.


If I had the space, I would have picked up an AVR1912 and not a model higher, nor lower. $100 less and two more HDMI in. The loss of network features on the AVR1712 would suck, and the network plus drop to 5.1 would suck on the NR1402. In general, the NR1602 is a great little receiver that serves it's function of "short 1912" very well. Once one gets through the poorly documented setup, it functions fantastically in day to day use. MultiEQ sounds great, and it does everything else that you would expect a modern receiver to do.


Thumbs up!

Seems like it might not be a big deal. Any merit to this?

There is also a refurb 21413ci for 399 from an authorized refurb seller.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR2113CI/DENON-AVR-2113CI-7.1ch-Networking-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-Ready/1.html
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post #28 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 10:45 AM
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I am actually giving a serious though about going with a refurbished unit instead from accessories4less.com. The Denon AVR-2312ci is only $450 + shipping.

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post #29 of 31 Old 11-26-2012, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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yeah me too. the 2113ci at 400 and 1913 at 350 seem really nice.
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post #30 of 31 Old 12-07-2012, 07:58 PM
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Does anybody know what factory refurbished really means? And would the unit inherently have more issues down the road then a brand new unit? The 1913 refurbished at 369 compared to new at 529 is quite a difference. Or is there another Fry's sale expected at 288, if only I knew about that one a few weeks ago.
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