Question on Zone 2 HDMI output capabilites - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 12-05-2012, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Guys,

New to the forum here and wasn't able to find exactly the information I was looking for on the capabilities of having HDMI out for zone 2. This thread was kind of the issue I am looking at.

Inside in my Main Zone I am running 5.1 (RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-52ii, and SW-310) and then have 2 outdoor speakers on the back porch for audio outside associated with Zone 2. Right now I have an older Yamaha receiver (no HDMI capability) and want to upgrade (for that reason), and in the process add a smaller HDTV outside on the porch. The receivers I am looking at are the Yamaha Aventage A2020, Marantz SR7007, and by extension the Denon 3313CI which appears to be the same as the Marantz (Ive seen lots of arguing over whether or not they are the same but in the scenario I am interested in with Zone 2 HDMI out, they have the same capabilities). The difference with these are that the A2020 2nd HDMI out is mirroring the Main Zone, while the Marantz and Denon have a discrete 2nd HDMI that can be assigned to another zone out.

My HDMI inputs to the receiver are DirecTV, Blu-ray, Xbox, and Computer (This is where the other thread was partially what I was interested in as all the inputs are HDMI, unless I am misunderstanding the other thread and how the zones work based on the type of input). I have asked these questions to Marantz and Yamaha but there responses haven't been exactly the information I was looking for, so I have asked them for clarification and thought some people here with the receivers or knowledge about them may be able to enlighten me.

For the A2020 where the 2nd HDMI out is mirroring:
1)Will I be able to mirror the DirecTV HDMI video input signal both on the Main Zone TV and the Porch TV and have the accompanying audio play through the speakers in the Main Zone and Zone 2?
2) For playing the same audio in both zones "party mode" is used (i have been told). Would it be possible to have the DirecTV input Playing through the main zone (TV and Audio), enable "party mode" to replicate the audio to zone 2, and enable mirroring on HDMI out 2 to play the video feed on the porch? (unfortunately it seems that party mode makes both zones stereo)
3) If there is a limitation against this (party mode plus HDMI mirroring), would moving up to the next model, the A3020 which as a discrete Zone 2 HDMI be able to handle this?

The final question brings me to the other two receiver, SR7007 and 3313CI, which both have a discrete HDMI 2 out that can be associated with another zone:
1) If I buy one of these receivers with a discrete 2nd HDMI out, am I able to play the same audio/video input source on the both channels or do they have to be separate inputs? I got concerned about this when reading through the manual for the Marantz and Denon models. Page 104 of the Marantz Manual states "If you select a same input source for MAIN ZONE and ZONE 2, audio playback may be restricted or video may be interrupted".
2) for the A3020 manual pages 90-95, I didn't see anything about being able to play the same source on both zones, it always said different. The only time it said the same source was for "party mode" audio.

Basically, if I have people over to watch the game, can I play it inside in the living room TV and outside on the porch TV at the same time using the speakers connected to the receiver (Main Zone and Zone 2). Sorry for the really long question and thanks if anyone can help me understand this better!

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post #2 of 27 Old 12-05-2012, 03:22 PM
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With the RX-A2020 the video display on the second TV will always be exactly the same as the video displayed on the first TV. No audio will be output to the speaker terminals assigned to zone 2 unless party mode is used or the the source selected in zone 2 is also connected by analogue audio cables.

With the AVR-33132CI the video display on the second TV connected to the zone 2 HDMI out is completely independent of the first TV. There's no upconversion from analogue video sources to the zone 2 HDMI out. If the surround back terminals are assigned to zone 2 then there any source you want to hear from these speakers must be also connected using analogue audio cables. If the surround back terminals are assigned to front B then these speakers will play the same audio as the selected in the main zone regardless of how the source is connected.

With the RX-A3020, if the second TV is connected to the zone out HDMI jack and assigned to zone 2 then video is completely indepedent. There's no upconversion form analogue video with zone 2 HDMI. The speakers attached to the zone 2 terminals can output audio from any source, but HDMI and optical/coaxial digital audio sources must be using 2.0 PCM unless the same source happens to be selected in the main zone.

For all receivers, all internal sources can be heard in zone 2 including "digital" sources like USB and Net Radio. All receivers will let you select the same source in all zones. The warning in the Marantz manual is probably just because there might be interruptions when other zones switch to or from the source you're currently watching. The RX-A3020 manual has a similar warning.

Any of the these receivers will support watching and listening to the game (from the same source) both TVs and speakers inside your house and outside on the porch at the same time. In fact any receiver with multiple HDMI outs and powered zone 2 should be able to accomplish this task.
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post #3 of 27 Old 12-05-2012, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Ross,

Thanks for the information. So just to make sure I understand this correctly, i can accomplish this with any of the receivers i am looking at so long as my input source is connected to the receiver with both HDMI and analogue audio/video? And then for the A3020, 3313CI, and SR7007 with the discrete HDMI 2, the caveat is that the video signal transmitted to these sources will be the analogue signal if I have both the main zone and zone 2 set to the same input source. So basically for AV1 with DirecTV, I would have the HDMI cable plugged into the AV1 slot and have component cables from DirecTV plugged into AV1 analogue inputs, and if I set both zones to AV1 input, it would route the HDMI signal to the Main Zone and analogue to Zone 2, and utilize the 5.1 inside and 2ch outside for audio, and HDMI video inside and component outside? Thanks again

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post #4 of 27 Old 12-05-2012, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbikefuel80 View Post

The final question brings me to the other two receiver, SR7007 and 3313CI, which both have a discrete HDMI 2 out that can be associated with another zone:
1) If I buy one of these receivers with a discrete 2nd HDMI out, am I able to play the same audio/video input source on the both channels or do they have to be separate inputs? I got concerned about this when reading through the manual for the Marantz and Denon models. Page 104 of the Marantz Manual states "If you select a same input source for MAIN ZONE and ZONE 2, audio playback may be restricted or video may be interrupted".
Basically, if I have people over to watch the game, can I play it inside in the living room TV and outside on the porch TV at the same time using the speakers connected to the receiver (Main Zone and Zone 2). Sorry for the really long question and thanks if anyone can help me understand this better!
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Note that when using the 3313CI or 7007's Zone 2(HDMI) output connected directly to the porch TV, there is no requirement for any analog connection as you would be passing the video AND audio over the HDMI cable to the TV using the TV's speakers. The Zone 2 (HDMI) can play either the same HDMI source as is selected in the main zone or a separate source when connected to the porch TV. The p. 104 note simply indicates that, as with any HDMI switch, if the porch TV is a lower resolution and can only accept stereo audio, then the main zone TV will also be restricted to that same lower resolution and stereo audio when playing the same HDMI source, otherwise, when a different source is selected in Zone 2, no such limitation applies for the main zone TV.

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post #5 of 27 Old 12-05-2012, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay awesome, I think I understand it. Thanks for the information guys!
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post #6 of 27 Old 12-05-2012, 08:51 PM
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You shouldn't need to use analogue video cables at all. You'd only need analogue audio cables in addition to HDMI cables if you wanted to use outdoor speakers on the porch instead of the outside TV's speakers, and you want to listen to something different from what's selected in the main zone.

There basically two limitations you have to worry about here. Most AV receivers with two HDMI output jacks limited to outputing the exact same thing on both jacks. The exception are certain high-end 2012 models that use HDMI matrix switches. This turns one of the HDMI outputs in a HDMI zone output capable of selecting a source indepenently . This HDMI zone output only works with HDMI inputs.

The RX-A2020 lacks a matrix switch, while both the AVR-3313CI and RX-A3020 have one.

The second limitation is that most AV receivers can't output independent digital audio to their zone 2 (or 3) speaker terminals or pre-outs. Sources you want to hear in zone 2 must either be connected using analogue audio cables, be internal source. Alternatively you can use something like Yamaha's party mode or other manufacture's speaker B functionality so that zone 2 is no longer indepedent of the main zone and so outputs the exact same thing.

The exception to this second limitation is the RX-A3020, which can output HDMI audio along with optical/coaxial digital audio to zone 2, and certain older Denon receivers like the AVR-3312CI which can output optical/coaxial digital to zone 2 or 3.

If you only ever want to watch and listen to the same thing both inside and out you can use just about any AV receiver with two HDMI outputs, including models that are much cheaper than those you mentioned.
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post #7 of 27 Old 12-06-2012, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

If you only ever want to watch and listen to the same thing both inside and out you can use just about any AV receiver with two HDMI outputs, including models that are much cheaper than those you mentioned.

This is true if you only want to use the TV speakers on both TVs. On Denon and Marantz AVRs with dual main zone monitor outputs, the "HDMI Audio Out" setting can be set to either "TV" or "AVR", but the setting applies to both TVs. On Onkyo AVRs, the same limitation applies, however, in some cases if the main zone volume is turned up, the audio can be heard through the FL/FR speakers only.

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post #8 of 27 Old 12-16-2012, 06:29 AM
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This has been a very helpful thread for me, as I am in a similar situation with a 5.1 family room and a porch off of it with 2 speakers. In the summer, we like to have a projector on the porch, and I am looking to simplify the setup. Currently I have an older receiver (non-HDMI) with dual analog outputs to support zone 2 and an HDMI matrix switch to support multiple HDMI devices and separate outputs to the family room and porch. It all works, but there are tons of wires and the rest of my family can't figure out how to use it.

The ultimate solution would be an AVR that has a matrix HDMI switch and can output digital audio (mostly HDMI but also optical) to the 2nd zone (porch). Seems like the only option mentioned on this thread for this is the RX-A3020. Looks great, but beyond my price level at the moment.

I would be willing to live with just mirroring Zone A to B (audio and video). Is the only option here that supports digital audio inputs the Yamaha receivers with party mode (RX-V773)?
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post #9 of 27 Old 12-16-2012, 09:34 AM
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There are a number of mid/upper level models that were released this year that support an HDMI(Zone2) connection with the HDMI(Zone2) either going directly to the TV or to another AVR for surround sound in Zone 2. Included among them would be the Denon AVR-3313CI and the 4520CI. On these models, other than that HDMI(Zone2) connection, Zone 2 digital audio is not supported (eg. via the pre-outs or speaker posts).

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post #10 of 27 Old 02-16-2013, 06:30 AM
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Sorry, late in reviving this thread. Not sure if anything has changed post-CES and I need to pull the trigger soon.

As mentioned, I have a 5.1 setup in the family room and a 2.0 on the adjacent porch where we listen to music and watch movies on a projector. I would like a receiver where I can send audio/video (mostly from digital HDMI sources) to both zones seamlessly without using analog inputs. Ideally I would like to send different inputs to each zone, but that is not critical.

If I am looking to spend < $1K, is the only option the Yamaha receivers with dual HDMI out and Party Mode (RX-V773WA & RX-A820)? Looks like with both of those I can mirror the output, maintaining 5.1 in the family room and sending both audio/video to the 2nd zone audio (without an additional amp) and 2nd HDMI out. Can anyone confirm this? Are there any other options with this capability that I should consider?

Thanks for your help. I am a technical geek but something of a newb in terms of audio.
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post #11 of 27 Old 02-16-2013, 06:36 AM
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As I mentioned in my previous post, the Denon 3313CI would satisfy your requirements and can be likely had a bit below your budget if you "call" several of the Denon authorized resellers to include avscience.com, Electronics Expo, J&R, and Paul's TV. Also the new 2013 lines will start being released in the next several months by the various mfr's so last year's models will start going on even deeper discount to make way for the newer models.

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post #12 of 27 Old 02-16-2013, 08:15 AM
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Thank you, jdsmoothie. I wasn't clear from your previous post, but to clarify: With the 3313CI it looks like it has matrix switching, so I can have 5.1 in the main zone with one digital input and a separate digital input going to a 2nd HDMI out and 2.0 audio via the zone 2 speaker posts? Do you lose anything in the main zone by doing this?
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post #13 of 27 Old 05-06-2013, 10:04 AM
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Hi guys, I have a similar setup that I am having issues with. I just purchased an Onkyo 1010 and when i turn on Zone 2 HDMI that has a TV attached to it, it forces both zones to 'stereo'. While this makes 'sense', I am looking for a receiver that can independently do 5.1 in main room while outputting the same source to zone 2 in stereo. Is there a receiver that does this? I am not interested in playing different source to different zones, I am playing the same source to both zones but i dont want my DTS-HD content to switch to stereo in main zone when I turn on Zone 2 TV. Thanks for any insight.
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post #14 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 07:41 PM
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Hello everyone,

I'd like to have 5.1 (and a TV) in the living room (MAIN ZONE) and 2ch-stereo (and another TV) in the patio (ZONE 2).
Is it possible to setup the receiver so that I have all options below? How? If not, what options can I make available?

1) Play video and sound (from source A) in the TV and speakers of the living room.
2) Play video and sound (from source A) in the TV and speakers of the patio.
3) 1 e 2 simultaneously
4) Play video in the TV of the living room and sound in the patio ONLY (from source A)
5) Play video in both TVs and sound in the patio ONLY (from source A)
6) Play video and sound (from source A) in the TV and speakers of the living room + video and sound (from source B) in the TV and speakers of the patio.

I was thinking about the DENON 3313ci. I've read all user's manual, but still very confused about ZONE 2 configs. From this thread, I understood that all options are possible with this receiver. Could you confirm?

If the 3313ci can't handle all the possibilities, what other receivers can?

Since ZONE 2 is stereo, would MAIN ZONE turn to stereo when playing the same source? Any workaround?

Thank you very, very much.
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post #15 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 11:50 PM
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Yes, the 3313CI can accomplish your goal and yes, as with any HDMI switch, when playing the same source to both main and Zone 2, the main zone audio will be down mixed to 2CH stereo.
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post #16 of 27 Old 06-17-2013, 12:12 AM
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Thank you!
Any advantage of the X4000 over the 3313ci for my purposes? Still didn't understand the "All Zone Stereo" thing...
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post #17 of 27 Old 06-17-2013, 12:21 AM
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I take it that you would be using the HDMI Zone 2 out directly to the patio TV using the TV speakers for audio so if you are not using either the Surr Back/Amp Assign speaker posts (Zone 2) or the Zone 2 pre-outs to another amp/AVR, then the "All Zone Stereo" on the X4000 would not apply in your current configuration.

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post #18 of 27 Old 06-17-2013, 07:43 AM
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In fact, this is not the case. When I mentioned "speakers of the patio", I meant 2 dedicated speakers connected to the surround back posts of the AVR. I would use the HDMI Zone 2 out just to send video signal to the patio TV.
Any option excluded with this limitation?
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post #19 of 27 Old 06-17-2013, 04:23 PM
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Then in that case, with the 3313CI you would need to connect an analog cable from each source to the AVR in order to pass the audio to the Zone 2 patio speakers.

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post #20 of 27 Old 07-09-2013, 02:00 PM
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It's certainly not ideal, but here is my workaround which I haven't seen described here:

I have a Sonos CONNECT connected to a 3313ci - input to optical and output from Zone 2 using a piggyback RCA cable. Whenever I want to hear audio from an HDMI source elsewhere in the house, I connect a y splitter cable from the headphone jack in front into the piggyback. I do have to sacrifice audio to Zone 1, and make the connection manually, but it works.
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post #21 of 27 Old 09-18-2013, 09:22 AM
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Like tbortolotto I wanted to run 5.1 in my main room and then the same or another source on Zone 2 with video using a Denon AVR-3313CI. Using jdsmoothie's suggestion I connected the sources that I wanted to use with both HDMI and analog audio connections. The result is that it works great, keeping 5.1 in the main room and running stereo on the deck, with both TVs showing the source video over HDMI. Do note however, that there is a slight delay in the audio causing an echo-like sound if you can hear both zones (like when the doors are open). I'm not sure why this doesn't work straight-up without the workaround, but it doesn't.
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post #22 of 27 Old 09-18-2013, 09:46 AM
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^^
On the 3313CI, try setting the "Video Mode" setting (p. 121 OM) from "Auto" to "Game" for that particular source.


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post #23 of 27 Old 10-06-2013, 11:02 AM
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Thanks jdsmoothie, the Game mode setting dramatically improved the audio sync on the two zones.
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post #24 of 27 Old 10-06-2013, 11:17 AM
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Great! Also note there is a dedicated thread for AVR-XX13 owners ... review posts #3-6 for more helpful information.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#post_21995255

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post #25 of 27 Old 05-27-2014, 07:14 AM
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Again, sorry to revive an old thread. I have similar needs to above, my difference is that everything will be in the same room. What I'm trying to accomplish is to hook all my sources (mostly HDMI, some component) up to the receiver. Connect the HDMI outs of the AVR to two tvs that are side by side to create scenarios like below:

1. WIfe watching tv, I'm playing a video game (on mute or with headphones)
2. Watching 2 different football games at one time
3. Etc....

Now what I could do is connect only one of my DTV receivers to the AVR, use that one on "my" tv, then connect the other DTV receiver directly to my "wife's" tv.

But if I did connect everything to my receiver, is it possible to get HDMI pass through for the Zone 2 HDMI. For instance, if all my sources are connected to the receiver, and my wife wants to watch tv. Could she do HDMI pass through for the Zone 2 HDMI out so she doesn't have to power the speakers up on any receivers available?
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post #26 of 27 Old 05-27-2014, 10:17 AM
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The Denon X3000 and X4000 both have a Zone 2 HDMI monitor ouput which could pass the Zone 2 source while the main zone is powered off.

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post #27 of 27 Old 05-27-2014, 11:08 AM
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Thanks jd, since my 4k tv just arrived, I'll wait for something >= Denon X4100
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Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

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