SC-68 problems with powered zones 2 and 3 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 12-07-2012, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Folks,

I have my SC-68 configured for a 5.1 with zone 2 and 3 powered. My problem is that I can't get any audio out to zone 2 or 3. I've checked the connections multiple times and believe that there is something not activated in the receiver. I used the AVNavigator to set things up and when that didn't work. I manually selected this setup from the front panel.

Any ideas?
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post #2 of 16 Old 12-07-2012, 08:07 AM
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did you use speaker setup G? or use a B speaker setup, like B or H?

are you following the directions for activating & using multizone using the buttons on the front panel?

pages in manual - 79 & 37

reread those pages in the manual, follow the instructions to the letter IF you truly have a multizone setup & NOT using the B speaker jacks. also, the manual states that your choice of inputs is limited if using setup G. make sure your input is one that will work using that speaker setup option, pg 37, I think, but check the manual for footnotes or other pages.

Pioneer makes a distinction between setting up B speakers and multizones. "B" speaker options are triggered by the Speaker setting on the remote or front panel instead of the multizone buttons.

You 1st have to turn on multizone functionality with one of the front panel buttons, then use the other buttons to select the zone, and then the input selector knob or remote button to select the source for that zone - pg 79

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post #3 of 16 Old 12-07-2012, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

did you use speaker setup G? or use a B speaker setup, like B or H?
are you following the directions for activating & using multizone using the buttons on the front panel?
pages in manual - 79 & 37
reread those pages in the manual, follow the instructions to the letter IF you truly have a multizone setup & NOT using the B speaker jacks. also, the manual states that your choice of inputs is limited if using setup G. make sure your input is one that will work using that speaker setup option, pg 37, I think, but check the manual for footnotes or other pages.
Pioneer makes a distinction between setting up B speakers and multizones. "B" speaker options are triggered by the Speaker setting on the remote or front panel instead of the multizone buttons.
You 1st have to turn on multizone functionality with one of the front panel buttons, then use the other buttons to select the zone, and then the input selector knob or remote button to select the source for that zone - pg 79

I used setup G and I have better feedback to give here. Zone 2 IS working but only for audio. I was selecting "Uverse" for zone 2 and was expecting the audio to come over. It doesn't. If I select internet radio that works in both zones. It works fine if I plug my ipod that plays fine in both zones.

BLU-ray and Uverse selections, the audio only plays in the main room. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks in advance for your support and consideration.
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post #4 of 16 Old 12-07-2012, 01:44 PM
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Your receiver, like almost all receivers, won't output anything other than analogue audio sources to an indepedent zone 2 and 3. Internal sources like USB and Net Radio count as an analogue source, so they'll work in zone 2 and 3.

The simple solution to the problem to hook up your source devices using analogue audio cables in addition to HDMI.

You can also use Front B/Speakers B configuration. This will let you hear any source connected through the speakers attached to the Speakers B terminals, but you won't be able to select a different source than what's playing in the main zone.
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post #5 of 16 Old 12-07-2012, 02:12 PM
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+1
Whitehaven, Ross Ridge is right.

if you're using HDMI for both BD & U-verse box, then those sources can only be sent to another zone directly by using the SC-68's HDMI Zone 4 output, which would only be for 1 device as is.

you do have some options -

1. also connect analogs from both for your other zones
2. integrate an external HDMI matrix switcher for BD & cable box for the 3 zones, with its output into one of the SC-68s' inputs and one to each zone.
3. use the SC-68's HDMI 4 zone 4 multizone output for 1 one of the sources and analog connections on the other.
4. connect a matrix switcher on the 68's zone 4 output connection, and use it to switch between the 2 on the output side. this might be more problematic due to HDMI-HDCP receiver-transmitter issues but could work on paper

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post #6 of 16 Old 12-07-2012, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks so much for the replies. I've finally finished the entire installation (including the long pull out to the pool gazebo - Zone 3). This job has put a bruise on every inch of my body (except my tongue). mad.gif

Your responses leave me to conclude that everything is working as designed and may I say it sounds like a pro installed it. smile.gif

So, is it as simple as hooking an analog connection from:

Uverse analog ==> SC-68 Audio SAT/CBL IN
DVD analog ==> SC-68 Audio DVD ?? (I don't see a Blu-ray IN)

What's the functional differences (Receiver-wise) between DVD and Blu-Ray?

Last, your support and information was superb. Thanks! wink.gif
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post #7 of 16 Old 12-07-2012, 04:12 PM
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There's no difference between the DVD and BD inputs other than the fact the BD input is HDMI only. There might be some differences in the default settings for these inputs, they're not treated specially.

Since the BD input doesn't have any corresponding analogue audio input jacks, you're forced to connect them to some other input and the DVD one is your most obvious choice. In the main zone you'd need to select BD to hear your Blu-Ray player, in zone 2 and 3 you'll need to select the DVD input to hear this same source.

You could also connect the Blu-Ray player's HDMI output to the DVD input instead. This would free up the BD input for another device, but from the sounds of things your not anywhere close to running out of inputs.

One caveat though, not all devices support HDMI audio output and analogue audio output at the same time. Some devices will require that you enable a certain setting before both outputs become active, some will have a setting requiring you to choose one or the other.
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post #8 of 16 Old 05-30-2013, 04:19 PM
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OK - So now I'm confused. If you can only output analog to Zone 2, why is there a HDMI Zone 2 output beside the Zone1 HDMI output? Isn't the HDMI Zone 2 output supposed to mirror the HDMI Zone 1 output? If not, what function does it serve?

My goal is to mirror Zone1 on Zone2, using a 5.1 (setup G) speaker setup with external speakers for Zone 1; and using the HDMI Zone2 out to the TV in the kitchen - using the Kitchen TV's internal speakers. (Zone 4 for the bedroom).

I have selected setup 4a1 in the manual speaker setup menu, which is a 5.1 setup (G) with a 5.1 in the Living Room (Zone 1), and would like to send the Zone2 HDMI output to an HDMI input of a TV in the kitchen (hoping to mirror Zone 1 AV).

Any help for this?
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post #9 of 16 Old 05-30-2013, 06:43 PM
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The zone 4 HDMI output can only output sources connected using HDMI. The zone 2 speaker terminals and pre-outs can only output internal sources and sources connected using analogue audio cables There is no zone 2 HDMI output.

The HDMI jacks labeled "OUT 1" and "OUT 2" are for the the main zone and output the same exact thing. As they are in the main zone they work with HDMI video sources and any analogue video sources the receiver is capable of converting to HDMI.

Unfortunately you can't really do what you want to accomplish. In order to pass HDMI audio through the OUT 1 or OUT 2 HDMI jacks you need to disable the speakers connected to the receiver. If you don't want to use the kitchen TV and the main zone speakers at the same time then you could hook things up like you described, but you'd have to change the HDMI audio parameter to select which you'd want to use. You might also be able to do this through the remote of the TV connected to the "OUT 1 (control)" jack. You'd need to enable HDMI Control (HDMI CEC) both on the receiver and the TV.
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post #10 of 16 Old 05-30-2013, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

The zone 4 HDMI output can only output sources connected using HDMI. The zone 2 speaker terminals and pre-outs can only output internal sources and sources connected using analogue audio cables There is no zone 2 HDMI output.

The HDMI jacks labeled "OUT 1" and "OUT 2" are for the the main zone and output the same exact thing. As they are in the main zone they work with HDMI video sources and any analogue video sources the receiver is capable of converting to HDMI.

Unfortunately you can't really do what you want to accomplish. In order to pass HDMI audio through the OUT 1 or OUT 2 HDMI jacks you need to disable the speakers connected to the receiver. If you don't want to use the kitchen TV and the main zone speakers at the same time then you could hook things up like you described, but you'd have to change the HDMI audio parameter to select which you'd want to use. You might also be able to do this through the remote of the TV connected to the "OUT 1 (control)" jack. You'd need to enable HDMI Control (HDMI CEC) both on the receiver and the TV.

Not familiar with Pioneer, but if they react like D&M models, the HDMI outputs can only output HDMI sourced audio.

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post #11 of 16 Old 05-30-2013, 07:40 PM
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I didn't say anything about it being able to output analogue audio through it's HDMI OUT1 and OUT2 ports. What I said was, like many AV receivers, including many Denon and Marantz models, it's capable of converting analogue video to HDMI.

That said, at least some Yamaha and Onkyo receivers are capable of outputting analogue audio, along with optical/coaxial digital audio, through their main zone HDMI outputs. Onkyo documents this in their manuals, but I only know Yamaha receivers can do this because someone mentioned it here and I tested it myself. Whether or not Pioneer receivers can also do this, I don't know, but I'm not sure if it matters to the original poster.
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post #12 of 16 Old 05-31-2013, 03:01 PM
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Thank you JD Smoothie and Ross Ridge. You have made clear in a few paragraphs what the salespeople at Best Buy/Magnolia and the Pioneer marketing material utterly failed to make clear.

WOW, your clear information about what the 4 zones do and don't do means I have a real problem. I hope you guys can help.

I have a central stack in a room away from all TVS. There are two people in the house and each of us want to listen to different sources, independently, at any of the 7 TVs throughout the house, but we watch TV together in the LR (main listening room). I bought an OCTAVA 4x8 HDMI over Cat6 Matrix, expecting to feed 3 (of the 4) Matrix inputs from 3 HDMI outputs of the SC-68. The plan was to dedicate one HDMI (Zone 1) to the main listening room, and the two remaining HDMI sources via the 4x8 Matrix to the 7 HDMI-input TVs around the house. But as I understand it now, I can only send one HDMI signal to the 7 TVS because the Zone1 output is dedicated to the surround system and the OUT2 functions basically as a $20 HDMI splitter of the output of OUT1. If Zone 1 powers surround sound speakers from the binding posts then OUT1 and OUT2 will carry only the video and NOT carry the audio portion of the signal.

So, thinking I had 3 independent HDMI outs, I bought expensive additional equipment that is not returnable at this point.

The only solution I am seeing is to buy a SECOND surround receiver. I would send the SC-68's Zone 1 and Zone 2 HDMI outputs to the Matirx. One of these sources from the SC-68 is free to go to any of the 7 TVs at any time. The other source from the SC-68 into the Matrix could also be sent to any of the 7 TVs. That meets our need of having signas available throughout the house. But, when we want to listen to the surround system in the living room, then the Matrix could send on of these signals to a second Surround Receiver that is dedicated to providing AV to the Living Room.

Of course, this solution assumes that ZONE1 of the SC-68 will output both audio and video over HDMI if no speakers are being powered by the speaker terminals on the back of the SC-68. But is this possible? I guess I'll have to see if OUT1 will provide a full AV signal to a TV if there are no speakers attached to the SC-68. I also loose all the great sound processing features for surround sound that the SC-68 has. Not what I wanted, and even if this works it is a klutzy set up! But can you guys see another solution?

One alternative might be to split the source signals as they come out of the source devices and feed them into a second receiver. For example, use an HDMI splitter to split the signal from the PS3 so it feeds the SC-68 and another receiver. But this would require a second receiver that - like the SC-68 - can input devices like our media storage drive.

Any ideas would be much appreciated.

---

Minor rant: OUT1 and OUT2 are mentioned only 3 times in the manual; the Zone capabilities are buried on pages 37 and 79 and even there are hard to decipher; Pioneer marketing material doesn't make clear what the 4 zones are capable or not capable of, and the salespeople depended on the marketing materials and manual so couldn't clarify to me how the zones work. There are 3 HDMI outputs on the back, so I assumed - and was not really corrected by the salespeople - that these represented 3 zones. I have a major rant about how obscure Pioneer is in their marketing and manual about this, but I'm putting most of that rant aside for now in hopes that you guys can help me solve the mess I'm in.
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post #13 of 16 Old 05-31-2013, 04:05 PM
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I think your best solution may be to connect your sources directly to the Octava 4x8 HDMI switch and then connect one of the HDMI outputs of the Octava to your SC-68. If you have more than four sources then pare them down to just the four you're mostly likely to want to use in different rooms of the house. The rest you can connect directly to the SC-68. For example, your PlayStation 3 isn't likely to be very useful outside of the room its located in. Also sources connected to the Octava will likely be limited to just stereo, since that's the lowest common denominator audio format all your TVs will support. If you want multichannel audio from your sources you'll need to connect them directly to the SC-68. You may face similar restrictions with video if not all of your TVs support 1080p.

You could also connect the SC-68 like described above, but also connect its HDMI 4 output to one of the Octava inputs along with three other sources. This would give you the means to access all of your HDMI sources in any room.

All this assumes your sources only use HDMI. If you have any sources using analogue video or audio then there's not much you can do to connect them to other rooms without additional equipment to convert them to HDMI. Otherwise you'll need to the connect them to the SC-68 directly.

I don't see anyway to use a second receiver in your setup except as very expensive HDMI switch.
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post #14 of 16 Old 06-01-2013, 08:20 AM
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Ross,
Thanks for your suggestion, but I would have difficulty limiting the sources. One of the inputs to the Octava 4x8 has to be the SC-68 itself. This is forwarded by the Octava by Cat6 to my Zone1 surround-sound living room.
That leaves only three inputs, but I have 6 sources to date (2 PS3s, 2 Cable boxes, and 2 Apple TVs) The reason for the duplicates is to allow two viewers to view ANY source at any of the 7 TVs (i.e., one person could watch cable channel 2 on one TV while the second person watches cable channel 3 at another TV).

What do you think of this next possibility?

Use an HDMI Matrix between the source devices and the Octava. This Matrix can be controlled by IR from all locations, via the Octava I am actually thinking of using two 4x4 HDMI matrixes, as I can get these for for $350 each through Amazon - much cheaper than an 8x8 matrix (I can't find 8x4 matrixes) Proposed equipment: two Monoprice 4X4 True Matrix HDMI Powered Switch w/ Remote, Rev. 3.0, available at Amazon.

The inputs would be the 6 source devices (2PS3s, 2 Cable, and 2 Apple TVs).This leaves 2 spare inputs
The outputs would be:
1 - Octava input 2 (to supply viewer A at any of the 7 remote TVs)
2 - Octava input 2 (to supply viewer B at any of the 7 remote TVs)
3 - SC-68 (to supply signal to Zone 1 surround sound)
4 - To an HDMI to analog RCA-jack converter. The purpose of this is to convert an HDMI signal from my PS3 to an analog RCA input for the SC-68, thus allowing me to play music from my PS3 through zones 2 and 3 to the house and deck speakers. Proposed equipment: "ViewHD Universal HDMI to Composite / AV Video Converter, Support PAL / NTSC Standard TVs)", available through AMazon for $32 each.

Another part of this set up is to the optical output of the Apple TVs to feed an optical-to-analog converter. The purpose of this is to convert an HDMI signal from my Apple TV to an analog RCA input to the SC-68, thus allowing me to play music from my PS3 through zones 2 and 3 to the house and deck speakers. For $55 I can get a Geffen optical to RCA converter.

Pros:
I get to use the SC-68 for what it is best - as a sound processor/amp for my Zone 1 surround system.

Cons:
Switching nightmare. I will have to program multiple custom macros into my remotes.
Costs about $700 - I can get a second surround receiver for less than that.
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post #15 of 16 Old 06-01-2013, 11:03 AM
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I don't think you have the option of sending surround sound from your SC-68 through the Ocatva switch. Your surround sound speakers need to be connected directly to the SC-68. You can send just the video output of the SC-68 through your Octava, but I think you would be better off bypassing the Octava and using HDMI-to-Cat5/6 video baluns for that since you wouldn't need to waste one of the few inputs of your Octava.

I hope you're not thinking of connecting your surround sound speakers to the SC-68 using long runs Cat6 cable. You'd need braid all 8 of the conductors inside a Cat6 cable together to get equivilent of a thick enough guage of cable to run more than 50', and that's just for one half of one speaker connection. You'd need to use 10 Cat6 cables to just to properly and safely connect all of five of your surround sound speakers.

You don't need to use an analogue converter with your PlayStation 3, you can just turn the Audio Multi-Output option on and it'll output audio through its analogue and HDMI outputs simultaneously. What you do need is some way of controlling the PS3 from other rooms. The wireless controllers don't have unlimited range and there's no IR receiver on the PS3 so it won't work with the IR repeater built into the Octava.

You also souldn't need to connect the Apple TV using analogue cables to the SC-68, pretty much all of the Apple TVs functionallity is supported by the internal network device on SC-68 (eg. AirPlay) and this functionality works in zone 2 and 3.
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post #16 of 16 Old 06-01-2013, 05:11 PM
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1.

Ross, thanks for the tips on getting analog to the SC-68 from the Apple TV and the PS3.

2.
To control the PS3 remotely I plan to use a PS3IR-1000 Wireless Infra-red Adapter for PlayStation 3 (USA Kit) (from Amazon for $100. It gets 5 stars)

3.
I appreciate the warning about using the SC-68 for speaker wire, but I have great speaker cable from the SC-68 to my surround sound speakers in the living room. So, I'm not intending to use the Cat6 for speaker cables.

4.
However, I was thinking of using the SC-68's outputs to:
Zone-1 HDMI output to send video to the Octava, and then having the Octava send that video signal over Cat6 to my Samsung in the living room where the surround speakers are (wired directly to the binding posts of the SC-68 using good speaker cable). That is the way I have it set up now, and that part is working fine.
Zone-2 to House speakers
Zone-3 to Bedroom speakers
Zone-4 to send HDMI to the Octava, and from there to the 7 other TVs in the house.

5
The big problem I'm having is getting feeding HDMI to the other 7 TVs so that two users can access different sources at the same time on different TVs (Say one watching channel 4 in the bedroom, and one watching channel 222 in the office). This means getting one additional link between the sources and the Octava.

Since That's why I'm thinking of the equivalent of 8-Inx2-Out HDMI Matrix switch. But 8-Inx2-Out HDMI Matrix switches apparently don't exist. To get 8 inputs in one matrix It looks like I'd have to upgrade to an 8-Inx8-out, which would cost upwards of $2,000. So instead I was thinking of using two 4-Inx2-out matrix switches to get all the inputs I want, and these would cost $350 each. (Monoprice 4X4 True Matrix HDMI Powered Switch w/ Remote, Rev. 3.0, available at Amazon.).

6.
All the sources (cable boxes, PS3s, etc,) would feed into the the 8 inputs on the Matrix. Each 4x2 Matrix would output to:

1. The SC-68 (which would be dedicated to the Living room Zone 1, and (deck/house speakers via Zone 2 & 3).
2. The Octava to supply source material to the 7 TVs for a second user
(This is needed when Zone 1 isn't being used, but there are two users wanting access to different sources in different areas of the house. In this instance, one source would come from
Zone 4, and the second source would come from the




Pros:
-I get to use the SC-68 for what it is best - as a sound processor/amp for my Zone 1 surround system.

Cons:
-Costs about $700 - I can get a second surround receiver for less than that.

-Switching nightmare. I will have to program multiple custom macros into my remotes to control the HDMI switches and the Octava. Remotes are a different problem altogether. I like the Harmony Ulimate touch because it can be programed by computer and the programs easily cloned; but it has a lousy hard-key layout. I like the URC R-50 for its hard-key layout and macros... but it seems like a bear to program... especially if I want multiple remotes around the house.


btw, I love the Octava. It is relatively inexpensive and works extremely well carrying HDMI over Cat6 for long distances. Also, their customer support has been amazingly prompt and helpful.



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