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post #61 of 109 Old 03-07-2014, 12:49 PM
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Will it work with Magnepan MMG 4 ohms 87db sensitivity?

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post #62 of 109 Old 03-07-2014, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

Will it work with Magnepan MMG 4 ohms 87db sensitivity?

In stereo mode... barely...

In surround mode, definitely not...

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #63 of 109 Old 03-07-2014, 07:54 PM
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In stereo mode... barely... In surround mode, definitely not...

What will then?
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post #64 of 109 Old 03-08-2014, 12:49 PM
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Not all amps are the same... Most are rated for two channel use only. When all channels are driven, the power supply runs out of current and the output suffers dramatically... I think in the latest S&V magazine, they tested a Yamaha amp rated 120 watts/channel. But when all channels are driven, the power is only about 30 watts... An AVR performance is primarily dependent on the power supply, how large the transformer and the caps are.

Magneplanars are difficult to drive because they are very inefficient and need a lot of current... Not too many amps will be able to power Mags... You would have to look for AVRs that are very heavy (because they will have larger power supplies to supply such current). It would be best to look for AVRs that weight about 50+ lbs. They only exception may be Pioneer with their digital amps because they use efficient designs that weigh less...

As an example, I have a mid-range Yamaha. They will drive my Mag 1.6QRsto moderate volume in stereo. I also had an Onkyo TX-NR906 (55+ lbs) with 140watts. They could drive the Mags a bit louder in stereo mode only. If I had a 7-channel Mag, then there would be no way to use the Onkyo as it would not be powerful enough.

OTH, I also have an Acurus 100-watt two channel integrated amp. The Acurus has a very large power supply. That amp could drive the Magneplanars quite loud.

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #65 of 109 Old 03-10-2014, 10:51 AM
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Interesting specs?

 

130W at 4 Ohm and at 8 Ohms

 

1. Is the amplifier that is in the Sony 5800ES a Class A/B amplifier?

 

2. The manual on page 141 is shows the same power at 8 Ohms and at 4 Ohms how is that possible?

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post #66 of 109 Old 03-10-2014, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
 

Interesting specs?

 

130W at 4 Ohm and at 8 Ohms

 

1. Is the amplifier that is in the Sony 5800ES a Class A/B amplifier?

 

2. The manual on page 141 is shows the same power at 8 Ohms and at 4 Ohms how is that possible?

 

You received the "actual" watt ratings on the other thread didn't you...?

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post #67 of 109 Old 03-10-2014, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post

You received the "actual" watt ratings on the other thread didn't you...?

Nope that is what is published in their manual, I read the Sound & Vision review but they only talk about 8 Ohms
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post #68 of 109 Old 03-11-2014, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Interesting specs?

130W at 4 Ohm and at 8 Ohms

1. Is the amplifier that is in the Sony 5800ES a Class A/B amplifier?

2. The manual on page 141 is shows the same power at 8 Ohms and at 4 Ohms how is that possible?

Usually, the power rating goes up at 4-ohms. If it does not, the Sony must be limiting the current in the power supply in 4-ohms to prevent it from damage. The Sony is a Class AB design....

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #69 of 109 Old 03-11-2014, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View PostUsually, the power rating goes up at 4-ohms. If it does not, the Sony must be limiting the current in the power supply in 4-ohms to prevent it from damage. The Sony is a Class AB design....

Interesting, and you know this from Sony?

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post #70 of 109 Old 03-11-2014, 01:27 PM
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This is a common practice with lower priced AVRs... Some manufacturers use a 4-ohm switch to limit the current to each channel instead.

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #71 of 109 Old 03-11-2014, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon S View PostThis is a common practice with lower priced AVRs... Some manufacturers use a 4-ohm switch to limit the current to each channel instead.

I see that way it protects the amps!

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post #72 of 109 Old 03-12-2014, 11:33 AM
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That is its exact purpose... The reason for it is that cheaper lighter AVRs have smaller power supplies which cannot supply the current demanded by loud passages in movies without self destructing. When you look at reviews of amplifiers, you will usually see that the amps will deliver the specified power when two channels are driven, but only higher priced models will deliver close to that rated power when all channels are driven.

I have seen some AVRs rated for 125-watts per channel only deliver about 25-30 watts when all channels are driven, which means the maximum output can be as much as 6-9dB lower than more powerful AVRs when all channels are driven. As a general rule, the heavier the receiver, the bigger the power supply. The bigger the power supply, the more current they can deliver to the amps. The only exception to this rule would be AVRs with digital amplifiers, such as the higher end Pioneer Elites...

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #73 of 109 Old 03-12-2014, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

That is its exact purpose... The reason for it is that cheaper lighter AVRs have smaller power supplies which cannot supply the current demanded by loud passages in movies without self destructing. When you look at reviews of amplifiers, you will usually see that the amps will deliver the specified power when two channels are driven, but only higher priced models will deliver close to that rated power when all channels are driven.

I have seen some AVRs rated for 125-watts per channel only deliver about 25-30 watts when all channels are driven, which means the maximum output can be as much as 6-9dB lower than more powerful AVRs when all channels are driven. As a general rule, the heavier the receiver, the bigger the power supply. The bigger the power supply, the more current they can deliver to the amps. The only exception to this rule would be AVRs with digital amplifiers, such as the higher end Pioneer Elites...

Thanks we should start a list of AVR by weight biggrin.gif

ONKYO TX-NR5010 = 55.1 lbs

INTEGRA DTR-80.3 = 52.9 lbs

YAMAHA RX-A3030 = 40.1 lbs

SONY STR-DA5800ES =39lbs 11oz

PIONEER SC79 = 38.75 lbs Class D3 amps

DENON AVR4520CI = 36.38 lbs

MARANTZ SR 7008 = 27.09 lbs


By this measure the Marantz is crap! Of course that does tell you about the sound!

Compared to Parasound Halo A51 5 channels amplifier 80 lbs
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post #74 of 109 Old 03-12-2014, 05:35 PM
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Remember, that's based on a general rule... You should always rely on reviews that test the actual output... Basing power by weight is not 100% correct but a general rule.... there are all kinds of factors for the weight.... For example, Onkyo has a heavy primary toroidal transformer as well as two secondary transformers, making it very heavy...

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #75 of 109 Old 03-14-2014, 10:10 AM
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Remember, that's based on a general rule... You should always rely on reviews that test the actual output... Basing power by weight is not 100% correct but a general rule.... there are all kinds of factors for the weight.... For example, Onkyo has a heavy primary toroidal transformer as well as two secondary transformers, making it very heavy...

In Hawaii
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post #76 of 109 Old 03-14-2014, 11:07 AM
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In Hawaii
???

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #77 of 109 Old 03-14-2014, 02:43 PM
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???

Your signature
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post #78 of 109 Old 03-15-2014, 09:25 PM
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Anyone know when Sony releases their new flagship ES line?

 

Every year? Every other year?

 

I really like the 5800... but am thinking about waiting for full HDMI 2.0, USB 3.0....etc....

 

:confused:

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post #79 of 109 Old 03-16-2014, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post

Anyone know when Sony releases their new flagship ES line?

Every year? Every other year?

I really like the 5800... but am thinking about waiting for full HDMI 2.0, USB 3.0....etc....

confused.gif
Don't know, but the latest firmware enabled the HDMI 2.0 on the 5800. Jump on Sony's support site to look at the firmware notes. As to USB 3.0, is this something that's really needed? I love it for how fast it is for transferring huge files on computers, but will it be that useful for an AVR?

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post #80 of 109 Old 03-16-2014, 10:54 AM
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Don't know, but the latest firmware enabled the HDMI 2.0 on the 5800. Jump on Sony's support site to look at the firmware notes. As to USB 3.0, is this something that's really needed? I love it for how fast it is for transferring huge files on computers, but will it be that useful for an AVR?

 

Well Sony's firmware "version" of HDMI 2.0 is NOT full HDMI 2.0...

 

For one, HDMI 2.0 supports up to 16 bits - Sony's "version" only supports up to 8 bits...

 

There are other differences also - and Sony will not tell us exactly what it's "version" of HDMI 2.0 does...

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post #81 of 109 Old 03-16-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post

Well Sony's firmware "version" of HDMI 2.0 is NOT full HDMI 2.0...

For one, HDMI 2.0 supports up to 16 bits - Sony's "version" only supports up to 8 bits...

There are other differences also - and Sony will not tell us exactly what it's "version" of HDMI 2.0 does...

Probably missing the crucial part of 4K @60Hz...seeing as that needs a 600mhz bus clock and most receivers still use 300-400MHz ones.
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post #82 of 109 Old 03-16-2014, 12:40 PM
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Here's the latest update info that Sony has on their firmware update page:
Quote:
Model: STR-DA5800ES Version: 1058

Improvements over version 1046/1047:

Adds support for the following HDMI® Version 2.0 specification for 4K/60p signals:
  • 3840x2160p @ 59.94/60Hz (YCbCr 4:2:0 / 8bit only)
  • 3840x2160p @ 50Hz (YCbCr 4:2:0 / 8bit only)
  • 4096x2160p @ 59.94/60Hz (YCbCr 4:2:0 / 8bit only)
  • 4096x2160p @ 50Hz (YCbCr 4:2:0 / 8bit only)

Benefits provided by previous updates and included in versions 1057/1058:

  • Adds playability for DSD (Direct Stream Digital) files via USB and DLNA® devices
  • Adds playability for ALAC (Apple® Lossless Audio Codec) and AIFF (Audio Interchange File Format) files via USB and DLNA devices
  • Adds up-scaling capability to the 4k signal for HDMI 1080p/24Hz input signals
  • Adds support for additional compatible lighting devices
  • Adds vTuner support
  • Adds support for simultaneous HDMI A+B output
  • Improved detection reliability for the Lighting Control Adapter (UWA-C4Z)
  • Improved playback quality via DLNA devices
  • Improved connectivity for the BRAVIA® Internet Video service

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post #83 of 109 Old 03-16-2014, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AYColumbia View Post

Here's the latest update info that Sony has on their firmware update page:

 

Adds support for the following HDMI® Version 2.0 specification for 4K/60p signals:

  • 3840x2160p @ 59.94/60Hz (YCbCr 4:2:0 / 8bit only)
  • 3840x2160p @ 50Hz (YCbCr 4:2:0 / 8bit only)
  • 4096x2160p @ 59.94/60Hz (YCbCr 4:2:0 / 8bit only)
  • 4096x2160p @ 50Hz (YCbCr 4:2:0 / 8bit only)

 

Exactly... 8 bit only...

 

And it doesn't list all of the other features of full HDMI 2.0....

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post #84 of 109 Old 03-16-2014, 05:38 PM
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The new 5900 is coming wink.gif
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post #85 of 109 Old 03-16-2014, 05:47 PM
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The new 5900 is coming wink.gif

 

LOL, I am sure it is!

 

Just when is the question...

 

:p

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post #86 of 109 Old 03-16-2014, 08:23 PM
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LOL, I am sure it is!Just when is the question... tongue.gif

Soon I heard Sony is doing special pricing until end of March wink.gif
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post #87 of 109 Old 03-16-2014, 08:50 PM
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Soon I heard Sony is doing special pricing until end of March wink.gif

 

LOL, what...?

 

:confused:

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post #88 of 109 Old 03-17-2014, 02:37 PM
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Well if 5700 came out in 2012, the 5800 came out in 2013...

 

So, I would "assume" that the 5900 is due out in 2014...?

 

:confused:

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post #89 of 109 Old 03-17-2014, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVAV View PostWell if 5700 came out in 2012, the 5800 came out in 2013...So, I would "assume" that the 5900 is due out in 2014...?:confused:
 

CEDIA 2014 ?

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post #90 of 109 Old 03-17-2014, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
 

CEDIA 2014 ?

 

Yup, that means that it wouldn't be out until the last 2 months of the year or early 2015...

 

If there is one coming at all...

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