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post #1 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I was hoping someone here can comment on my setup and answer a question or 2 because i'm kinda confused (which is often the case smile.gif)

I recently bought a receiver: an Ankyo TX-SR701E. Very happy with it.
I like to watch movies through my computer and the same goes for listening music. So i connected my videocard to my tv through a hdmi cable. As my receiver has no hdmi option i send the sound from the tv to the receiver via a rca cable. When listening to music i also do it this way as i noticed the sound quality is way better than through one of those small plugs in the back of your computer soundcard.

Now the part that totally confuses me. I watched a movie in which i thought was surround sound. My receiver has several surround sound options including pro logic and dts. I didn't notice any difference between the options but i'm pretty sure the surround itself worked fine. Speach in the middle speaker, music and stuff in the front speakers and background noise in the back speakers.
So just now i was reading about audio stuff and to my amazement read that rca doesn't support surround! I would need hdmi to hear surround! But my receiver doesn't have that option! Once again keep in mind, my computer goes to the tv via hdmi and the tv to the receiver via rca so the end signal is analog.

So my question is what am i hearing when i watch a movie in surround and why does my receiver offer surround sound and dts and stuff if it has no digital input?

I'm sure i'm missing something but i can't figure out what.

Thanks a lot!
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post #2 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 07:36 AM
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Analog cables can only send 1 channel/cable so when using only a red/white cable pair, the best you'll get is 2CH stereo. To get 5.1 channel surround sound you would either have to connect 6 analog cables from the source to the multi analog inputs on your AVR (see below), or connect either an optical or coax digital cable from the source to the matching inputs on the AVR.





What you are likely hearing is the AVR is using Pro Logic to simulate 5.1 from the 2.0 stereo input currently being received.

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post #3 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your answer.
This is very weird to me. How can it simulate that and know exactly where everything goes if the input is only stereo?

So anyway optical or coax is digital?
That way i can listen to my movies in dts?

is this the cable you are talking about?

?
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post #4 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok i looked at the back of the receiver. No coax. Only optical. 2 inputs.
Any idea how i can get this from my tv or computer to that input?
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post #5 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Analog cables can only send 1 channel/cable so when using only a red/white cable pair, the best you'll get is 2CH stereo. To get 5.1 channel surround sound you would either have to connect 6 analog cables from the source to the multi analog inputs on your AVR (see below), or connect either an optical or coax digital cable from the source to the matching inputs on the AVR.

What you are likely hearing is the AVR is using Pro Logic to simulate 5.1 from the 2.0 stereo input currently being received.

Will 6 analog cables enable me to use dts? Or just standard 5.1?
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post #6 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StandingTripod View Post

Thanks for your answer.
This is very weird to me. How can it simulate that and know exactly where everything goes if the input is only stereo?
So anyway optical or coax is digital?
That way i can listen to my movies in dts?
is this the cable you are talking about?
?

coax and optical are two different ways to transfer SPDIF digital format. A coax cable looks pretty much like any other rca to rca cable. You can use pretty much any rca to rca cable to connect digitally. The cable you pictured has connectors used with so called 75 ohm cable to connect video devices and antennas.

When you feed a two channel signal to a receiver and use the expansion programs, they look at the phase of sounds to assess what's different from the left and right. Essentially everything that's identical between the two goes to the center and whatever's not identical stays in the left and right channels. With a 5 channel setup, it further takes what's in the left and right channesl and figures out what's out of phase and moves that, or at least some of it, to the surrounds. It does not know anything, and certainly cannot guarantee to be like the surround mix that you would hear with discrete channels. But it can sound pretty good. But the systemis simply making things up, essentially, based on a program that implements whatever it's designers wanted to do to fabricate surround out of a 2 channel signal.
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post #7 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:07 AM
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That's what a simulation program does ... it "simulates" 5.1 from 2.0.

The cable you displayed is simply a coax TV cable .. not the same as coax digital which actually looks like an analog cable. However, if optical is the only digital input then you would need to connect that from your source to one of the optical inputs. Newer HDTVs will generally have an optical audio out which you can connect to the AVR and get DD 5.1 from local HD channels via a roof antenna. Using your HTPC, you'll need to either get a video card that also has an optical output or get an HDMI --> optical converter.

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post #8 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

coax and optical are two different ways to transfer SPDIF digital format. A coax cable looks pretty much like any other rca to rca cable. You can use pretty much any rca to rca cable to connect digitally. The cable you pictured has connectors used with so called 75 ohm cable to connect video devices and antennas.
When you feed a two channel signal to a receiver and use the expansion programs, they look at the phase of sounds to assess what's different from the left and right. Essentially everything that's identical between the two goes to the center and whatever's not identical stays in the left and right channels. With a 5 channel setup, it further takes what's in the left and right channesl and figures out what's out of phase and moves that, or at least some of it, to the surrounds. It does not know anything, and certainly cannot guarantee to be like the surround mix that you would hear with discrete channels. But it can sound pretty good. But the systemis simply making things up, essentially, based on a program that implements whatever it's designers wanted to do to fabricate surround out of a 2 channel signal.

Thanks for the explanation.

I still don't understand what i need to get now. How i need to connect.
It looks like i have the option between 6 cables or 1 optical cable. But i see no way to connect any of my devices through optical.
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post #9 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Ah i see an coax input on my receiver. Can i just get a coax cable then and connect the audio out from my tv to coax in?

Edit: my tv also has a S/PDIF out. Is that any good?

Edit again:

To make things clear.

My tv has spdif out.
My receiver has optical in and coax in.
And 6 cable analog ofcourse.

Videocard to tv stays hdmi, only solution.

What would be my best option here.
Sorry for all this frown.gif
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post #10 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Using your HTPC, you'll need to either get a video card that also has an optical output or get an HDMI --> optical converter.

Will this split the hdmi in to hdmi out for video and optical for audio?
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post #11 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:33 AM
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Your AVR has a coax digital input just to the right of the optical output with a coax digital output just above the input. With most TVs, if you pass HDMI input to the TV the s/pdif output will only be 2 CH stereo. So it would seem you best bet is to purchase the HDMI--> optical converter I listed in my previous post if you want to get true DD/DTS 5.1 surround audio.

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post #12 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Your AVR has a coax digital input just to the right of the optical output with a coax digital output just above the input. With most TVs, if you pass HDMI input to the TV the s/pdif output will only be 2 CH stereo. So it would seem you best bet is to purchase the HDMI--> optical converter I listed in my previous post if you want to get true DD/DTS 5.1 surround audio.

I see. And 6 analog cables? How will that sound?
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post #13 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:45 AM
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S/PDIF out is the optical output.

It would be helpful if you let us know what model TV you have.

optical cable looks like this


digital coax has a single RCA plug on each end


They both do the same thing which is send digital audio from your source to the receiver.

There is no guarantee you will get Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS sound though because you are routing your HDMI audio from the TV to the receiver. Sometimes the TV will convert HDMI audio to 2 channel stereo. It depends on the TV. The only way to know for sure is to try it.

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post #14 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:45 AM
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It's the same sound as on the optical, but then .. your card doesn't support that either.

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post #15 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It's the same sound as on the optical, but then .. your card doesn't support that either.

What do you mean with that? I would simply plug in the 5 cables from my computer soundcard.
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post #16 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:50 AM
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If you card supports multi channel analog ouputs, then yes, you would simply connect 6 analog cables from the card to the matching inputs on the AVR.

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post #17 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:51 AM
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You said you recently purchased the SR701E. I think the "E" is a European designation. Where are you located?

Why get such an old receiver now, the SR701E must be close to 9-10 years old?

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post #18 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

S/PDIF out is the optical output.
It would be helpful if you let us know what model TV you have.
optical cable looks like this

digital coax has a single RCA plug on each end

They both do the same thing which is send digital audio from your source to the receiver.
There is no guarantee you will get Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS sound though because you are routing your HDMI audio from the TV to the receiver. Sometimes the TV will convert HDMI audio to 2 channel stereo. It depends on the TV. The only way to know for sure is to try it.

Right, so i can only find out by buying a cable and try it...hmm..

TV is a philips 42pfl7603d btw.
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post #19 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

You said you recently purchased the SR701E. I think the "E" is a European designation. Where are you located?
Why get such an old receiver now, the SR701E must be close to 9-10 years old?

I'm in Europe yes. Well, i got it really cheap and didn't understand the problems with the 5.1 thing i would run in to.
I could buy a newer one with hdmi in but then i have yet another problem. My video card has 1 hdmi out. So it either needs to go to the receiver or the tv. I will either have digital video or digital audio rolleyes.gif
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post #20 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If you card supports multi channel analog ouputs, then yes, you would simply connect 6 analog cables from the card to the matching inputs on the AVR.

Cool. But that's just normal surround? It won't support dts?
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post #21 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 09:04 AM
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Here is the cut sheet for your TV.
http://download.p4c.philips.com/files/4/42pfl7603d_10/42pfl7603d_10_pss_eng.pdf

The S/PDIF output on your TV is actually digital coax, not optical. you probably have a cable with single RCA connectors on each end laying around the house. Give it a try by connecting it to your receiver.

Curious, what sound card do you have on your PC? What about video card?

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post #22 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StandingTripod View Post

I'm in Europe yes. Well, i got it really cheap and didn't understand the problems with the 5.1 thing i would run in to.
I could buy a newer one with hdmi in but then i have yet another problem. My video card has 1 hdmi out. So it either needs to go to the receiver or the tv. I will either have digital video or digital audio rolleyes.gif

That's not really a problem, you route the HDMI out from the PC to the receiver. The new receiver will also have a HDMI out which you will connect to the TV. So you'll still get digital video to the TV.

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post #23 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Here is the cut sheet for your TV.
http://download.p4c.philips.com/files/4/42pfl7603d_10/42pfl7603d_10_pss_eng.pdf
The S/PDIF output on your TV is actually digital coax, not optical. you probably have a cable with single RCA connectors on each end laying around the house. Give it a try by connecting it to your receiver.
Curious, what sound card do you have on your PC? What about video card?

I don't have a cable like that but it's cheap to buy one and try. I'm worried though if i will hear the difference between fake 5.1 and real. Because obviously till now i thought i had 5.1.

My videocard is a gtx670 and soundcard is on board 5.1 from a x79 extreme4 motherboard.
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post #24 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

That's not really a problem, you route the HDMI out from the PC to the receiver. The new receiver will also have a HDMI out which you will connect to the TV. So you'll still get digital video to the TV.

Oh i see. I didn't know that was possible. Interesting.
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post #25 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 09:11 AM
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Most new receivers will have a least 4 HDMI inputs and one HDMI output. The receiver acts as a video switcher but also decodes HDMI audio.

Before doing all that though try to digital coax cable from TV to receiver and see what happens.

You still never mentioned what sound card and video card you have on your TV.

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post #26 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Here is the cut sheet for your TV.
http://download.p4c.philips.com/files/4/42pfl7603d_10/42pfl7603d_10_pss_eng.pdf
The S/PDIF output on your TV is actually digital coax, not optical. you probably have a cable with single RCA connectors on each end laying around the house. Give it a try by connecting it to your receiver.
Curious, what sound card do you have on your PC? What about video card?

I found a cable and plugged it in spdif and connected it to coax on my receiver. It is 5.1 for sure but i can't determine if it's fake or not!
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post #27 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Most new receivers will have a least 4 HDMI inputs and one HDMI output. The receiver acts as a video switcher but also decodes HDMI audio.
Before doing all that though try to digital coax cable from TV to receiver and see what happens.
You still never mentioned what sound card and video card you have on your TV.

yes i did smile.gif

My videocard is a gtx670 and soundcard is on board 5.1 from a x79 extreme4 motherboard.
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post #28 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StandingTripod View Post

Cool. But that's just normal surround? It won't support dts?

Yes .... DD or DTS ... doesn't matter.

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post #29 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StandingTripod View Post

I found a cable and plugged it in spdif and connected it to coax on my receiver. It is 5.1 for sure but i can't determine if it's fake or not!

What does the display on your Onkyo receiver say?

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post #30 of 41 Old 12-16-2012, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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What does the display on your Onkyo receiver say?

THX cinema. And dts and neo6 on top of that.
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