WHY SO MANY PROBLEMS WITH HDMI - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 12-16-2012, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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So i'm looking into a new receiver ($400-$500 range) and i'm trying to do my home work and what i keep reading is that there are lots and lots of people having issues with HDMI working from a few weeks up to six months, and then stop working. I mentioned this to my local electronics repair guy and he said he sees this a lot and wouldn't recommend using the HDMI cables from the tv to the receiver, what he says is that it weakens some board (can you tell that i now nothing about this stuff) in the receivers and then eventually it will not work. He did mention the best way to hook everything up and i didn't wright it down, does anybody know anything about this.
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post #2 of 51 Old 12-16-2012, 04:11 PM
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Onkyo has had issues with hdmi board failures. That is all that I am aware of
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post #3 of 51 Old 12-16-2012, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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For receiver I asked the shop what is a good one in my price range and he said the way he would look at buying a new receiver would be one with least amount of issues. From his experience from repairing, installing, and lasting a good amount of time he recommended a Denon.
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post #4 of 51 Old 12-16-2012, 04:22 PM
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LOL
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post #5 of 51 Old 12-16-2012, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scipper77 View Post

Onkyo has had issues with hdmi board failures. That is all that I am aware of

They are not the only one i've read this issue/problem on a lot of receivers but i am staying away from onkyo.
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post #6 of 51 Old 12-16-2012, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kensmith48 View Post

LOL

I dont know i'm confused i just keep reading reviews on receivers on pros and cons and its making my head spin. Even the expensive one (over $1000) have issues.
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post #7 of 51 Old 12-16-2012, 05:03 PM
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It just seems that more and more is being required of a receiver. Decades back there were basic switches and inputs. Now there are processors on top of processors. Internet connectors. HD processing. Wow. Then the electrical current demands of these new devices has them being able to roast tonights dinner. I look into upgrading my older system and read about all the problems. I then decide to keep my older more basic 7.1 system with decoding built into the BD player and tell myself to be happy with the few problems that has caused me vs. what I read about today.

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post #8 of 51 Old 12-16-2012, 06:57 PM
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nad rotel onkyo and many other brands are having major hdmi issues. that is why I am afraid to upgrade to a hdmi receiver for now.
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post #9 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I was told that I would be lucky if a new receiver would last me 8-10yrs. This really sucks i'm not rich or have some cash laying around, my range is 4-5 hundred dollars only b/c's i've been saving. I'll be pissed if I buy a receiver in my price range and it lasts a few years if i'm lucky. I've read that it doesn't matter if it's hooked up by professionals or not or you use the best HDMI cables or not it's eventually going to **** the bed. So i'm not sure what I'm gong to buy. I miss Tweeter and Cambridge Sound Works, a place were you can walk in listen to there equipment and talk to the people who work there and get a good understanding of whats what. This place is good to but for me I need t be listening and seeing the equipment when talking about it.
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post #10 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 06:53 AM
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I think you're worrying too much about it. HDMI is virtually a universal standard in home electronics now. You'd be hard pressed to find gear that doesn't include it, and in most applications it works fine.

If you've read about HDMI failure occurring with a particular make and model of AVR, then sure, stay away from that make and model, just as you would a receiver with any other kind of common fault. Otherwise I say worry less about HDMI failure as a problem for all receivers. Focus on what features you want on an AVR - video upscaling, high power ratings, room correction, etc.
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post #11 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 07:15 AM
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You are facing the same type of problems with HDMI (or any complex technology) as the USB standard had and has (USB 3.0), when its different incarnations arrived at the market and where implemented all over the map.
First of all, there are different HDMI specs (latest 1.4), which arrived at the market over the years.
Each one expanded over the previous version. Unfortunately there are at least two partners involved in a HDMI combination, most of the time from different manufacturers, sometimes even with different HDMI versions implemented.

The myriads of possible permutations / combinations of peripherals makes this such a (sometimes) difficult task, because one never knows, if the HDMI specification on each and every unit has been implemented free of bugs and completely or just a subset only.
It will take some time until this technology / interface will become rather stable in each and every manufacturers model specific implementation.
But you can't get around it nowadays, because it is THE multimedia interface standard used by every manufacturer.
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post #12 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny68 View Post

So i'm looking into a new receiver ($400-$500 range) and i'm trying to do my home work and what i keep reading is that there are lots and lots of people having issues with HDMI working from a few weeks up to six months, and then stop working. I mentioned this to my local electronics repair guy and he said he sees this a lot and wouldn't recommend using the HDMI cables from the tv to the receiver, what he says is that it weakens some board (can you tell that i now nothing about this stuff) in the receivers and then eventually it will not work. He did mention the best way to hook everything up and i didn't wright it down, does anybody know anything about this.

Try finding a modern AVR that lacks HDMI. Lotsa Luck! ;-)

HDMI is relatively new and even just conceptually (Iet lone physically) very complex. It may look simple and when it works it can be very simple. When it doesn't work the reasons can be many, varied and sometimes inscrutable.

If all of the HDMI ports on an AVR are broken, it probably can still be used by means of a number of workarounds. If they were never there, the AVR has questionable value.

Probably the only really reliable information about the reliability of AVRs would be Consumer Reports and their latest data dates back to 2008 which seems to limit its relevance in 2012-2013.
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post #13 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 10:10 AM
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from what I have read online a lot Vinny a lot of receivers even expensive brands are dying in 9 months to 3 years. I just bought a nad c326bee integrated amp but understand that the model has had some problems with people. I hope that mine last at least 3 years. from what I understand nads workers soldering skills aren't always great so it fails. I used to hear so many great things about onkyo many years ago. The only things that I hear about onkyo now are failure rates. This stuff needs to stop being made in foreign countries and in the usa where the quality control would be much better.
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post #14 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 10:12 AM
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do you have any hi fi stores near you vinny or in nearbye towns or states? the furthest I have gone to hear hi fi was 3 and a half hours in another state. the closest shops from me are 30 to 40 minutes. I have about 4 of them.
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post #15 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 10:13 AM
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if you have any stores nearbye maybe you can listen to some stuff and see what brands sound good to you.
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post #16 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

do you have any hi fi stores near you vinny or in nearbye towns or states? the furthest I have gone to hear hi fi was 3 and a half hours in another state. the closest shops from me are 30 to 40 minutes. I have about 4 of them.

I think that the furthest I've ever traveled to hear hi fi gear was Stuttgart Germany which is about 4,200 miiles from my home near Detroit, Michigan. It was quite an experience because I was able to listen to a lot of hifi gear that wasn't even imported into the USA.

On balance that was a long time ago, back in the days when I believed that most audio gear sounded different.

Today I wouldn't bother to walk across the street to hear how some piece of hifi gear sounded because I know for a fact that any of the electronics that is good enough to be even worthy of my consideration sounds the same, and every speaker would sound different in that listening room across the street than it would in my own.
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post #17 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 11:38 AM
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1) Don't buy junk

2) Keep up with firmware updates
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post #18 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 01:08 PM
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Jdoos even the hi fi brands have problems sometimes. What brands would you consider junk?
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post #19 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 03:38 PM
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This post is pure speculation with no supporting evidence but...
It seems to me that the issue with the hdmi ports has to to with the ability to pass through even when the receiver is off. I was looking in the specs at a yamaha yesterday and the standby power consumption is .5 watts, 1 watt or 2watts depending on the status of the hdmi pass through or network control mode. I have also seen pics of failed boards that look like some of the solder joints are corroded. Could this be caused by a low current at all times through the board?
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post #20 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm about 20min. north of Boston and 15min. south of New Hampshire but i'm still in Mass. I'm not one to travel actually hate to travel, the only place close to me now is Best Buy (which is not) and Paul's tv. I was just at Paul's tv a few hours ago (found out that they sell kitchen appliances now) and all they sell for receivers are 2-4 name brands and only one model of each brand, so there out. Oh btw I plugged the onkyo back in and it just started to work no clue why. Now i'm afraid to unplug it, it sounds great not sure what to do.
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post #21 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I was on cnet this morning reading about HDMI cables and one of the authors wrote for the 3 or 4 time that there are no differences in a $3 dollar HDMI cable and a $103 dollar HDMI cable, my HDMI cables cost me $70 each. I was told thats what I need at the time and you get what you pay for and also I needed it for my 3d tv, any thoughts.
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post #22 of 51 Old 12-17-2012, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I forgot to mention that before I walked into Paul's tv I stopped by the Bose shop and looked at one of the Bose home theater (in a box), I'm going to start another thread on Bose system please jump in i'm looking forward to your thoughts and others threw out this club, thanks. I'm still coming back to this thread to read your what you have to say.
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post #23 of 51 Old 12-18-2012, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny68 View Post

I was on cnet this morning reading about HDMI cables and one of the authors wrote for the 3 or 4 time that there are no differences in a $3 dollar HDMI cable and a $103 dollar HDMI cable, my HDMI cables cost me $70 each. I was told thats what I need at the time and you get what you pay for and also I needed it for my 3d tv, any thoughts.

Trust the CNET article. wink.gif

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post #24 of 51 Old 12-18-2012, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny68 View Post

I was on cnet this morning reading about HDMI cables and one of the authors wrote for the 3 or 4 time that there are no differences in a $3 dollar HDMI cable and a $103 dollar HDMI cable, my HDMI cables cost me $70 each. I was told thats what I need at the time and you get what you pay for and also I needed it for my 3d tv, any thoughts.

Vinny, don't listen to ol' smoothie..there is a difference! the main thing being your wallet is much, much lighter being that you paid way too much for something that will make no difference. On the positive side, you can feel very smug towards your neighbors that you have very expensive HDMI cables that they cannot afford. However, there are some people that really believe these cables make the video brighter with better colors and the audio louder and clearer. This is due to the scientifically unsupported theory that expensive HDMI cables make the 0's rounder and the 1's straighter. So, if you are one of these people and are happy that you spent too much money, then ignore what anyone else says. And always remember..MONOPRICE Rules! when it comes to HDMI cables biggrin.gif

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post #25 of 51 Old 12-18-2012, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

Vinny, don't listen to ol' smoothie..there is a difference! the main thing being your wallet is much, much lighter being that you paid way too much for something that will make no difference. On the positive side, you can feel very smug towards your neighbors that you have very expensive HDMI cables that they cannot afford. However, there are some people that really believe these cables make the video brighter with better colors and the audio louder and clearer. This is due to the scientifically unsupported theory that expensive HDMI cables make the 0's rounder and the 1's straighter. So, if you are one of these people and are happy that you spent too much money, then ignore what anyone else says. And always remember..MONOPRICE Rules! when it comes to HDMI cables biggrin.gif


I did question the cable price at the time I even tried to return them at one point but they just convinced me that I needed them, lesson learned I won't be making that mistake again.
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post #26 of 51 Old 12-18-2012, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by vinny68 View Post

I'm about 20min. north of Boston and 15min. south of New Hampshire but i'm still in Mass. I'm not one to travel actually hate to travel, the only place close to me now is Best Buy (which is not) and Paul's tv. I was just at Paul's tv a few hours ago (found out that they sell kitchen appliances now) and all they sell for receivers are 2-4 name brands and only one model of each brand, so there out. Oh btw I plugged the onkyo back in and it just started to work no clue why. Now i'm afraid to unplug it, it sounds great not sure what to do.
Try the Natural Sound in Framingham and Ensemble in Nashua NH. Both are excellent stores that have a wide range of affordable equipment. Of course in NH there's no sales tax so you can save a little extra.smile.gif
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post #27 of 51 Old 12-18-2012, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scipper77 View Post

This post is pure speculation with no supporting evidence but...
It seems to me that the issue with the hdmi ports has to to with the ability to pass through even when the receiver is off. I was looking in the specs at a yamaha yesterday and the standby power consumption is .5 watts, 1 watt or 2watts depending on the status of the hdmi pass through or network control mode. I have also seen pics of failed boards that look like some of the solder joints are corroded. Could this be caused by a low current at all times through the board?

In this day and age the apparent corrosion you see may be tin whiskers due to the use of lead-free solder during assembly. The following picture is not of metal shavings dropped into a piece of electrical equipment but rather very large tin whiskers growing on the surface of electrical equipment in a real-world environment that fosters their growth:



The use of lead-free solder is a consequence of European laws called ROHS. Controlling these is a new critical success factor for the entire electronics industry. Whoda thunk that throwing a little lead into the solder pot would have suppressed the growth of tin whiskers for all these years?
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post #28 of 51 Old 12-18-2012, 07:36 AM
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Been using HDMI for years with monoprice cables....never had an issue.
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post #29 of 51 Old 12-18-2012, 09:12 AM
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electronics are strange Vinny. I had a kenwood receiver unplugged for about two years. I plugged it back in, but the display did not show up. I heard no sound. It went into protection mode a few times. I gambled on it working if I left it plugged in for a while. 5 hours later I heard sound. I still had no led light saying what input I was using. A few hours later the led light came on. Sometimes the light comes on and sometimes it doesn't. All that matters is that I can get sound. I barely use it much because I am afraid that it will eventually die soon. It is hooked up to a cerwin vega satelite speaker system and a 10 inch cerwin vega passive subwoofer. temporarily I have been using the old zenith receiver in my room playing the radio and cds. I had the yamaha receiver in the livingroom, but since I got the NAd it will be going in the livingroom hooked up to my energy speakers. If your onkyo messes up again leave it plugged in for 5 hours like I did. Maybe it will work. I was at a rock concert a few years ago Vinny and the equipment stopped working for no reason. The band unplugged everything and plugged it back in. Sure enough it worked Vinny. if you change your mind about traveling farther Vinny some of these stores are worth checking out like Class A mentioned.
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post #30 of 51 Old 12-18-2012, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

Jdoos even the hi fi brands have problems sometimes. What brands would you consider junk?

As an installer, I havn't had any HDMI issues in a few years...when there were issues, it wasn't brand specific...more model specific
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