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post #151 of 170 Old 12-17-2013, 06:16 PM
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Maybe Emotiva should take a clue from chasw98.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #152 of 170 Old 12-22-2013, 12:23 AM
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lol, thread starts on emotiva xpr 2 then goes everywhere else. In my books anyway more power is always good, and it really does not matter if you use it or not. My yamaha mx 1000 u 260 watt per channel never got used to full power on any set up i have used. Usually i would pushing 30 watt rms at most with efficient speakers or inefficient ones.

The toroid is suppose to be 2500 kva and weigh over 30 lbs in the Xpr 2. Coincidentally Triad magnetic supplies a toroid at 14.5 kg. which is 2.5 kva or 2500va, The toroid is 4.75 inches high or 120 mm in height. The width was not given. The exact size and weight seem to indicate this is the toroid used, or quite similiar. I included the link below to the toroid at mouser.

Given the width was not given, I wanted to estimate this, which i did by picture extrapolation. I resized the xpr 2 pic so you could measure 8.5 inches side to side.Then knowing the xpr 2 is 17 inches in width, i measured the width of the toroid at 3.5 inchs and multiplied by 2 to make up for half sizing. So this toroid appears to be 7 inches wide and 120mm or 4 .75 inches high and weight14.5 kgs.

I did the same estimation with the toroid in the cerwin vega cv 5000 and i get the exact same results. When my unit arrives monday or tuesday I will be able to confirm but they seem the same, so it is quite an oversized power supply in the Xpr 2.
It will be interesting to compare these two beasts, and seeing as the Cerwin Vega cv 5000 toroid rating was never published
it would appear that it is 2500 VA.

The output devices are advertised as 36 250 watt. When I looked around the only 250 watt output transistor available that I could find was Motorola. When looking at the internal pic of the xpr 2 the transistors used look like ON output transistors, (national semiconductor), not Motorola.I am thinking 250 watt output transistors must be a misprint, as the ON transistors list 250 volt and 150 watt each. It does not seem to make sense to use a 250 watt transistor, but if it is so much the better, but again maybe this is accidental on purpose embellishment?, or maybe I am just paying too much attention to details? LOL:)




http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Triad-Magnetics/VPT230-10870/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvwUzoUXIIvyTw34uqMHR%252buHSGQD8YLZ68%3d

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are
least under rated if at all.
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post #153 of 170 Old 12-22-2013, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post


lol, thread starts on emotiva xpr 2 then goes everywhere else. In my books anyway more power is always good, and it really does not matter if you use it or not..

We read the same book my friend!!!

LOL, this thread was a bit of a mess biggrin.gif Like the OP, I too run Polk RTiA9's, four of them. I've powered them with the XPA-3 and XPA-2 and DID notice a difference, the Polks do have a personality that's sensitive to power.

I've drooled over the XPR-X line since it's hit the market, but for now, I'm driving my mains with a pair of XPA-2's in bridged mode, oh yes, these are some sassy monoblocks biggrin.gif



Spinning the rear tire at 150mph while at 3/4 lean angle will put wrinkles in your seat
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post #154 of 170 Old 12-22-2013, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post

In my books anyway more power is always good, and it really does not matter if you use it or not.

Yeah, what someone buys is their own business, but in some cases what they buy is really a waste.

Take for instance my quite well-to-do Aunt. She bought a Mercedes AMG CL55 (roughly 500hp supercharged V8) back in the day. I know for a fact that she never, ever used that car anywhere remotely to its potential in any aspect of speed, acceleration, or handling. She bought it because she could but drove it like an old granny. I could care less that she spent her money on it, heaven knows she has plenty, but what a waste of a car.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #155 of 170 Old 12-24-2013, 02:44 PM
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Ok lets see if this works. The Emotiva Xpr 2 testing to see if it works.



http://youtu.be/Beh4r-Ly2j4

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are
least under rated if at all.
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post #156 of 170 Old 12-24-2013, 02:45 PM
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Whats the matter whoaru? You developing a sweat over the fact your switch mode power supplies will be garbage before mine lol, or maybe your just pissed my resale value will be near what I paid when it comes to resale. Yes 30 year old yamaha mx 1000 u will fetch me 800 each lol, That is the thing about most pro gear, more value vs consumer gear, but resale much poorer. I will have to live with the waste of those 4 cerwin vega cv 5000 i bought, as well as the 9 cerwin vega cv 2800, In 30 years they will probably be worth 200 each just for the metal recycle. The old school way is the green way, keeps all those switch mode power supplies out of the landfill.


Anyway for those that are serious about audio. My unit arrived. I have too much gear to do a permanent install any time soon, but I took the xpr 2 and hooked it up direct to a cd player with variable output, and then hooked up a cheapo pair of fluance speakers i bought for rear surrounds some years ago. The amplifier is excellent, The lighting nice, The meters rather useless as they do not really indicate anything more than an american audio db meter. I will be showing a video LOL. The video is before this as somehow I managed to get the posts reversed when editing.

Lenard audio on Landfills....................

However switch mode power supplies are extremely complex. The high switching frequency technology is in the Rf radio frequency band. This causes major headaches to technically manage containing Rf radiation from the printed circuit tracks and connecting wires within the circuit getting to the outside world and causing Rf noise contamination in radio and TV. Also the circuit operation is extremely fragile, and if any fault occurs (no matter how small) it contaminates almost every sector of the circuit.

Switch mode power supplies are non user serviceable, failures are simply dealt with by trashing the power supply and purchasing a new one. Attempting to service a switch mode power supply is virtually out of the question, except for fanatics who have infinite time. The technology is so complex and fragile that reliable operation after 7 years is not always expected but considered a blessing. As the world converts to using switch mode power supplies and PWM Class D audio amplifiers, they will eventually end up as the dominant mass of rubbish land fills.

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are
least under rated if at all.
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post #157 of 170 Old 12-24-2013, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post

Whats the matter whoaru? You developing a sweat over the fact your switch mode power supplies will be garbage before mine lol, or maybe your just pissed my resale value will be near what I paid when it comes to resale.

No, he was just stating that often times, what people buy are a waste of money. Sure if I had the money I can build a 100MW power plant just for my use because more power is always better right? There comes a point when all that extra power is a waste if you never use it. In most cases, mid - high end AVRs already have more than enough extra power for the average user.
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post #158 of 170 Old 12-24-2013, 03:08 PM
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Of course but that applies to everything. If you dont want a cadillac and desire a Vw beatle go buy one. I was buying houses when others were buying cars because i thought cars were a poor investment, I can buy more of them later by buying more houses first. Everyone makes their own choice. Many like renting and I am glad they do.smile.gif), if you want to can rent your gear too..... Merry Christmas:cool:

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are
least under rated if at all.
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post #159 of 170 Old 12-24-2013, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post

Whats the matter whoaru? You developing a sweat

Not much slips by you, does it. LOL...

I'm glad you mentioned the Yamaha resale value though. My M-80s aren't worth as much as the MX-1000, but the M-80s are still selling for roughly twice what I paid for mine.

I don't buy new power amps because they're stable technology and it's like buying a new car, take the big beating as soon as you drive it off the lot.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #160 of 170 Old 02-05-2014, 04:12 PM
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I have solved for the lack of level controls on the emotiva xpr 2. This ART XL 231 solves the problem nicely. It also is known for generating quite a bit of heat, Something the Yamaha M series liked to generate especially with Class A on with two pairs of speakers running. I have solved the heat problem with an ATM Cool stack unit.

I have verified that this is the exact same toroidal transformer as in the Cerwin Vega Cv 5000. 2500 VA at 31 lbs. The xpr 2 is heavier due to increased case size, as well as very large heat sinks , which are no doubt required to passively cool at 600 watt Rms amplifier. All the caps in the emotiva are 10000 uf vs the cerwin vega having 15000 uf caps. I am pretty much willing to bet it will be very hard to tell the difference between the emo and the cerwin soundwise. I have not done a direct comparison yet, but based on the fact I already know what the CV 2800 sounds like on home audio speakers, I assume this is the case.

Twice the price for the prettier front face, and much like most top quality old school amps they tend to run for 30 plus years.... a time frame where one could easily have tossed 4 switch mode power supply amplifiers in the Landfill. My opinion , do not waste your money on lightweight inferior amplifiers. My paragraphs keep getting jumbled up hence the editing.

One of three Yamaha MX 1000U amplifiers has developed a slight crackling in the left output channel that does not change based on output level. This one will be going to the shop soon for its first fix after well over 30 years. Sounds like it is probably a capacitor.

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are
least under rated if at all.
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post #161 of 170 Old 02-06-2014, 08:22 PM
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You are all about your opinion, that's for sure.

Switchmode amps are where it's at. More energy efficient, and less waste on copper and iron natural resources relative to all that wasted old school iron for something that's not even relevant to music reproduction. Keep deluding yourself that dinosaur technology is a good thing; LOL....

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #162 of 170 Old 02-09-2014, 08:25 PM
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I'm upgrading from a XPA-3 to an XPR-2 should be here this week.
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post #163 of 170 Old 02-17-2014, 02:06 AM
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Well at least that will be someone posting about the emotiva xpr 2 that actually has one lol.

Yes whoaru, my opinion is old school and smps is not where it is at, As old school still dominates the market with that 1956 Linn three stage topology, and standard unregulated supply.

It is there in black and white at lenard audio what real waste is. smile.gif)))

Quote Lenard Audio..

However switch mode power supplies are extremely complex. The high switching frequency technology is in the Rf radio frequency band. This causes major headaches to technically manage containing Rf radiation from the printed circuit tracks and connecting wires within the circuit getting to the outside world and causing Rf noise contamination in radio and TV. Also the circuit operation is extremely fragile, and if any fault occurs (no matter how small) it contaminates almost every sector of the circuit.

Switch mode power supplies are non user serviceable, failures are simply dealt with by trashing the power supply and purchasing a new one. Attempting to service a switch mode power supply is virtually out of the question, except for fanatics who have infinite time. The technology is so complex and fragile that reliable operation after 7 years is not always expected but considered a blessing. As the world converts to using switch mode power supplies and PWM Class D audio amplifiers, they will eventually end up as the dominant mass of rubbish land fills.

Pennies on the dollar vs a conventional power supply and still charging you as if you bought a toroid lol. Next best scam to actual snakeoil.

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are
least under rated if at all.
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post #164 of 170 Old 02-17-2014, 02:34 AM
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can agree with whoaru99, yes buy stuff but sometimes you can go over the top. Done it myself, PC Ultra 13 in a 30m cubed room, close to 2KW of power..
Emotiva are coming over here but no proper importer as of yet.

Don't need 1000W x 5 ;-) but a good 100-200W per channel, 5/7 channel would be perfect, high quality

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #165 of 170 Old 02-17-2014, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post


Quote Lenard Audio..

LOL. Same old tired Lenard Audio quotes. Do you have any real opinion of your own?

Perhaps SMPS is too complex for Lenard Audio to get right or to repair but plenty of other companies can, and do..

I'll be sure to tell my 14 year old SMPS amps that Lenard Audio says they should have died 7 years ago. I bet they get a big laugh out of that...know I did. LOL....

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #166 of 170 Old 02-18-2014, 07:24 PM
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can agree with whoaru99, yes buy stuff but sometimes you can go over the top. Done it myself, PC Ultra 13 in a 30m cubed room, close to 2KW of power..
Emotiva are coming over here but no proper importer as of yet.

Don't need 1000W x 5 ;-) but a good 100-200W per channel, 5/7 channel would be perfect, high quality

I have no problems with power, per se. Heck, I have 5.6kW of amplification in my HT setup. Not huge compared to the top tier players, but it's still quite a lot relative to many, maybe most. I just like having fun with JP because of his staunch albeit somewhat misinformed/misguided opinions.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #167 of 170 Old 07-30-2014, 06:45 AM
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This is an old thread so I'll be brief. Power is directly related to function. If you run 20.7 Maggies, then you do NEED the power to drive their potential. However, if you are running a highly efficient loudspeaker then power is then applied to transient response. I have measured a transient peak of over 300 watts instantaneous pull in the 30 HZ region. Therefore, power allows your loudspeaker to achieve maximum performance without running out gas. A Cerwin Vega amp, along with so many others, may have huge power specs, but sound downright crappy. Part of the almost $1800 cost built into the Emotiva XPR-2 is the highest in quality caps, rails, resistors, and of course, the transformer. Here is where you find the blackest black, resolution, detail, and perceived 3D imaging. In comparing the $1800 Emotive to an $18,000 boulder offered NO discernible difference in power output AND QUALITY OF REPRODUCTION. Will you ever see a review that states this? NO! You don't kill the golden goose that is "High End." The same MAY BE true in the Golden Ear Triton Ones. Giant killers do exist. So, does one NEED an $1800 amp? Well, does one need an $18,000 amp? Perception of value and one's own tastes are just that. I bought the Emotiva even though I could afford, without a sweat, the Boulder.
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post #168 of 170 Old 07-30-2014, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roguemodel View Post
This is an old thread so I'll be brief. Power is directly related to function. If you run 20.7 Maggies, then you do NEED the power to drive their potential. However, if you are running a highly efficient loudspeaker then power is then applied to transient response. I have measured a transient peak of over 300 watts instantaneous pull in the 30 HZ region. Therefore, power allows your loudspeaker to achieve maximum performance without running out gas. A Cerwin Vega amp, along with so many others, may have huge power specs, but sound downright crappy. Part of the almost $1800 cost built into the Emotiva XPR-2 is the highest in quality caps, rails, resistors, and of course, the transformer. Here is where you find the blackest black, resolution, detail, and perceived 3D imaging. In comparing the $1800 Emotive to an $18,000 boulder offered NO discernible difference in power output AND QUALITY OF REPRODUCTION. Will you ever see a review that states this? NO! You don't kill the golden goose that is "High End." The same MAY BE true in the Golden Ear Triton Ones. Giant killers do exist. So, does one NEED an $1800 amp? Well, does one need an $18,000 amp? Perception of value and one's own tastes are just that. I bought the Emotiva even though I could afford, without a sweat, the Boulder.
How did you measure the "transient peak of almost 300 watts"??
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post #169 of 170 Old 07-30-2014, 05:28 PM
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transient power

An amplifier will generally have a low distortion ration pertaining to a flat steady low power signal. However, low power amplifiers can have issues with high and low frequency performance or, trip into excessive negative feedback. Measurements are done using slew rate and rise time in said transients. While you can measure a transient in terms of power, the distortion within the rise is nearly impossible to measure. Transient response is directly affected by the drivers and crossover filtering in the speaker. Here is a graph demonstrating “steady state” power output at 50 watts, and a transient wave at 800 watts.
Hardware used, not necessarily in this representation, includes a digital multimeter, an audio analyzer, oscilloscope, the amp, and A Texas Instruments PNP-APA evaluation program.Transient power is also referred to as "headroom" availability.
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Last edited by roguemodel; 07-30-2014 at 05:32 PM.
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post #170 of 170 Old 07-30-2014, 06:31 PM
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"Hardware used, not necessarily in this representation, includes a digital multimeter, an audio analyzer, oscilloscope, the amp, and A Texas Instruments PNP-APA evaluation program.Transient power is also referred to as "headroom" availability."

I was actually wondering what equipment YOU used to measure
The transient peaks. Seems like the above list might be pricey
For a regular amp user.
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