Pioneer VSX-521-k / 821-k / 921-k / 1021-k - Power-On problems? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 57 Old 07-03-2013, 05:14 PM
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Fingers crossed you solve this... I too have a bum VSX-921. Subscribed!
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post #32 of 57 Old 07-03-2013, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thx1138a View Post

Sorry All - I haven't been getting any updates on this thread.

On my end - The 821 I bought with the "bad" HDMI board is now dead too !! I have made contact with someone (A REAL person) at Pioneer, but still haven't heard back. Still don't know if they can or will help ?!?!

It's now beginning to appear as if the VSX-*22k series is going the same direction. eek.gifconfused.gifconfused.gif

KOLGREN - Sorry to hear you gave up, but I totally understand. Pioneer is going to lose a LOT of loyalty over these failures. A receiver that can't make to the end of warrantee is bad - One that makes it a month out of warranty is WORSE !! My hope is that this is not another "planned obsolecense" gone wrong. Examples of this are: Apple Ipod (18 month non replaceable battery), Ford Mustang II (does RUSTang say enough), disposable Inkjet printer. An interesting video about "Planned Obsolecense" - The Great Lightbulb Conspiracy

STROTH - ditto on KOLGRENs remarks. I have considered the same sort of "Truth about Pioneer" type of campaign, but I'm there not yet. That is the type of campaign that got Apple sued and made them change the Ipod. Ipod battery lasted 18 months and wasn't replaceable - Apples solution was "go buy another one" (@ $500) eek.gif

PAUL46NIX - The "auto shutoff" was considered and rejected, because the error log shows actual errors.

DIMENSIA03 - Good username ! The techs advice is great IF you were having TEMP or OVERload errors. DC errors indicate a voltage problem. You might consider finding a different tech? That or you were having different errors then and the DC error is new?

*** EMIGONO *** - This is the kind data I've hoping to find !!!! That gives me specific components to test. EVERYBODY cross your fingers !!!

Jabob Barker - As Bruce Willis said "Welcome to the party pal". Unless your receiver was purchased in 2012, you're out of warranty.

MOJOE24 - Have you checked the internal fuse? It is located on the circuit board that the power cord attaches to. It looks like white ceramic. PLEASE, use caution if you open the case to check it. Unplug the unit from the wall before opening!! The fuse may be discolored if bad. Radio Shack is the easiest place to get a replacement. They might also put an ohmmeter on it to check it. *** Keep in mind that the capacitors inside take a while to discharge. Anything conductive (metal or YOU) that touches the wrong things could be bad. Old picture tube TV's were the worst - they could shock you HOURS after they were unplugged.

********************************************************************************************

I'm still hoping we can get to the bottom of this! When they work these are pretty good receivers. A recall on these is wishful thinking, but if we can find out what the problem is, we can fix them ourselves or at least take it in for repair KNOWING what needs fixed.

I don't have a lot of faith OR trust in most repair shops or people. I have been ripped off (and know too many others who have been ripped off) on repairs. It doesn't matter what type of product we're talking about: cars, appliances, electronics - If you don't know the problem you're at their mercy. I hate having to open my wallet and let them take money until THEY get tired.

Jim

Hi sir! Thanks for the appreciation!

BTW, I'm only getting DC errors everytime my 521k shuts off completely Can speakers cause voltage problems? (Bad wirings or bad speakers), I have an AVR(Automated Voltage Regulator) to avoid electric surges and such so I don't think that causes the problem.(hopefully)
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post #33 of 57 Old 07-03-2013, 10:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Dimensia03 - To the best of my knowledge DC errors are usually internal errors not caused by speaker shorts. Bad wiring (shorts) will cause overload errors - I don't know what blown speakers do.
.
Anbody reading this - If I'm wrong , jump in here & correct me. I just might learn something ?!? I'd much rather be ignorant (don't know) than stupid (can't know), at least ignorant is fixable.
.
Jim
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post #34 of 57 Old 07-04-2013, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thx1138a View Post

Dimensia03 - To the best of my knowledge DC errors are usually internal errors not caused by speaker shorts. Bad wiring (shorts) will cause overload errors - I don't know what blown speakers do.
.
Anbody reading this - If I'm wrong , jump in here & correct me. I just might learn something ?!? I'd much rather be ignorant (don't know) than stupid (can't know), at least ignorant is fixable.
.
Jim

ok sir! thank you for the information! really helped alot!
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post #35 of 57 Old 07-24-2013, 05:45 PM
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I had this problem come up on July 3, so just a couple weeks ago. Luckily I am under warranty and got an extended warranty with best buy. I was having issues with getting anything to output to my tv while using airplay, and some issues with speakers in zone b. Anyway took in and got it back today the repair comments state a711842 symptoms: power issues. Solution: replaced transitor in Q422.

Hope this helps everyone out with this issue.
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post #36 of 57 Old 08-02-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emigono View Post

Hi all,

I had the same problem (switching off after 5 seconds) with my VSX-822k . Took it to a repair shop, they told me my left channel had died causing it to go into protection mode. They replaced the following parts:

2SD2390 Transistor
2SB1560 Transistor
KTC3964 Transistor
2442043982 0.22 OHM 1W Resistor

Now its working fine. This is for those technically inclined, checked the cost of these parts in total is like $40 tops.

hope this helps someone.

I just wanted to post here saying that I've fixed TWO of these receivers (VSX-821-K and VSX-921-K) that I bought cheap off eBay as not working, and this is almost exactly what I had to replace (it's a similar set, but either the 822 failed in a different way than mine, or it's a slightly different amp design). Either way, since I bought the parts in some bulk (no point in paying shipping for just one set of parts, especially if this was going to happen again), it probably only set me back about $15-$20 per fix. The hardest part was sourcing the KTC3206 (probably performing the same task as the KTC3964 in the above post, since they're very similar transistors), which is a hard-to-find Korean brand.

What was curious to see was that both amps failed in EXACTLY the same way. The output transistors (2SD2390/2SB1560) were dead shorts, which made it easy to identify the dead channel with an ohmmeter. One pair of resistors going from the output transistors to the actual output (2x 0.47 ohm 2W in parallel, probably performing the same function as the 0.22 1W resistor above) had DETONATED. The KTC3206 (preamp transistor driving the output transistors) had failed open. The two KSA992 transistors forming the differential amplifier on the input had failed open, and the 47 ohm 1W resistor providing a load for said differential amp had also detonated. Also, the capacitor on the feedback side of the differential amp had burst because it was running continuously reverse-biased due to the other failures (electrolytics form a great DC path to ground when you do that).

Took me the better part of three days to diagnose it, but it was worth it when the second receiver had exactly the same failures and I had ordered extra parts. :-) My guess is that there's inadequate short-circuit protection on the output, and if the outputs get shorted, the output transistors fail shorted and destroy a lot of the rest of the amplifier chain. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to feed back into the rest of the receiver, because any of the other boards are basically unrepairable.

Also, it's probably worth noting that the failures here came up as "overload" when looking at the diagnostic (if anyone wants a more detailed explanation of what that actually means, I can try to explain, but the short answer is that it thinks the output is shorted).

For what it's worth, I'm an electrical engineer, so I have some experience to rely on when diagnosing amplifier faults. I also had a copy of the 521/821/921 service manual (thanks, Internet!). Don't go poking around there with little/no experience, because the power rails for the amplifier are +/- 50v (that's 100v pole-pole), which can give you a NASTY shock. It's also high current, so if you accidentally short something, you could cause a fire. Be careful, and if you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does. Diagnosing amps can be a fun learning experience, but it is less so if you hurt yourself!

But while I'm here, anyone know how to get service manuals from Pioneer? I have a VSX-51 coming in with similar symptoms, but I'm reasonably confident that the amp circuit is probably different and I'd rather have the service manual in front of me (and I can't find it on the Internet).
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post #37 of 57 Old 08-02-2013, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraveydank View Post

But while I'm here, anyone know how to get service manuals from Pioneer? I have a VSX-51 coming in with similar symptoms, but I'm reasonably confident that the amp circuit is probably different and I'd rather have the service manual in front of me (and I can't find it on the Internet).

Never mind, answered my own question. It's actually the VSX-1021-K manual, plus a tiny addendum specifying the slightly different stuffing options. Funny story: the VSX-51 has the EXACT SAME AMP. Same parts per channel and everything. Good thing I got 3 sets of output transistors!
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post #38 of 57 Old 09-17-2013, 03:03 PM
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I just purchased the "new" Elite VSX-43 on 7/4/2013, two months later Labor Day weekend it crapped. I can't find any discussion of other 43 troubles. Closest I've come is finding this thread. Slight differences. I had been watching TV when I noticed that the Character display was entirely blank, the StandBy button was no longer lit. The unit appeared to be turned off except for the blue HDMI indicator yet I had sound and video. I turned the unit off and now it won't power on. When press StandBy On unit clicks, then press StandBy Off unit clicks. no lights lit and no display.

Any thoughts? other than Pioneer tech support.
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post #39 of 57 Old 09-17-2013, 03:08 PM
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Or anyone know of VSX 43 discussion elsewhere? Any help most appreciated
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post #40 of 57 Old 09-25-2013, 10:33 PM
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I am  angry that i have not looked here earlier. I have a 1021 coming up on 2yrs most of which was in storage. Had the prw off issues,took it too the shop multiple times,$200 later it sill has issues. Now the center channel sounds like the speaker is broken/ horrible crackling sound and no sound from sub what so ever. I appreciate any help with this receiver. will not take it back to the shop. thanks

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post #41 of 57 Old 09-26-2013, 03:25 AM
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I've got the VSX-1021K and am getting the flashing MCACC light.  As soon as I plug the receive in, the light flashes and I can't do anything.  Any thoughts?  How can I reset the 1021?

 

This is the second time it's happened.  First time was under warranty and I took it to the shop and they said they couldn't find anything wrong with it (though when I got it back the light wasn't flashing anymore).  Worked great for about another 5 months, now it's out of warranty.

 

Very tempted to just cut my losses and get a new non-Pioneer receiver.

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post #42 of 57 Old 11-01-2013, 08:17 AM
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Howdy Folks!

Figured I’d post this in here since it’s a model being discussed, and it sounds like I may have something related.

I’ve got a 1021-K, bought new 2/9/2012, it’s been a pretty solid product, but I recently had an issue come up. My right channel is extremely quiet (i.e., not completely out), and I’ve done all the standard speaker/cable swaps to determine the issue is at the receiver. It’s not switching off, but that sounds like some kind of fault protection due to a bad amp, and I seem to have a bad amp, so figured the repair would be about the same.

I tinker a bit, and I’ve repaired a couple of monitors, a fridge logic board that had bad caps (visual inspection, got parts from mouser.com), so I thought this might be something I could DIY if I can get an accurate diagnosis and ID the right parts (don’t know if they’ll be visibly damaged like a capacitor).

FWIW, it did come back on at one point, I believe it might have been during a cold off/on cycle (completely unplugged).

Any help, input, part/supply number, etc., would be greatly appreciated!

"In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me, the choice is easy."
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post #43 of 57 Old 11-07-2013, 02:39 AM
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For those who have problem with turning ON Pioneer VSX (like I do) i found another VERY useful key combination

POWER / STANDBY + ADV. SURROUND for 5 sec. - it will restart processor - it is working for me.

 

My VSX420 was shutting down after 3-5 sec after powering it on. Then I use that combination that I found in deep internet :)

 

I hope that it will help for some of You.

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post #44 of 57 Old 11-10-2013, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't want to be rude, but, if you have a question not related to the original topic, your best bet is to start a new thread. An off-topic question will not get the exposure that a new thread will and you will most likely not get the answer your looking for. Using the forum search feature and reading the entire thread before posting will also help you get the help you're looking for. (Nobody likes answering the same question 10 times OR being given the same advice repeatedly.)

Fraveydank - Try here for service manual: http://elektrotanya.com/pioneer_vsx-51_4800_4900s_sm.pdf/download.html or here for the owners manual: http://www.audiocircuit.com/Home-Audio/Pioneer#xtra

R22tech - This is why I started this thread - there was little or no discussion of the failures that now appear common to the entire model line. This would seem to include 2011 (ie: 821-k), 2012 (ie: 822-k), and possibly the 2013 (ie: 823-k), models.

ALL - The final solution would seem to be blown amp transistors!! Read back a few posts to get the part numbers. I ordered mine from Newark electronics. As I said earlier and other have reiterated - be careful !!!! Replacing transistors in an amplifier SHOULD NOT be considered an entry-level repair. Either use the knowledge you've gained here to get it repaired correctly and not get overcharged or better yet - use it as an opportunity to make some new friends. Network with others who have the experience and/or expertise to do the repair. Buy them food, booze or whatever (Don't ask them to fix it for free !) and you'll still get it fixed cheaper than most have paid.

I'm still not sure what's causing it - my best guess is shorting a speaker output. Even if done with the unit off, there may be enough stored energy in some of the power caps to cause trouble or possibly static discharge. The really gloomy possibility is Planned Obsolescence - they didn't mean for it to last.

Over & Out,
Jim

**EDIT** One of my amps has a plastic shield around the speaker connections, the other doesn't. Kind of reinforces my suspicion that shorting the speaker output is part or all of the cause.
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post #45 of 57 Old 11-17-2013, 09:53 PM
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I have gone over some of the suggestions that were posted on this board, although I'm still with no luck. However my receiver just went down today, so i still have some problem solving to do. This is a really good receiver, i thought until today that is. I will update the post pending any resolution that i find to this common (frustrating) problem. The same as everyone's mine shut off after about 5 sec and wont stay back on. Had it for only 1 year this month as a matter of fact. bought off the clearance display from best buy the same way i read from someone else in the post.

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post #46 of 57 Old 11-18-2013, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharoh76 View Post

This is a really good receiver, i thought until today that is.

yep, really good receiver until it quit.
cut your loses and buy a non-pioneer receiver with a real warranty.
pioneer needs to step up with a better warranty.

science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
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post #47 of 57 Old 11-24-2013, 04:04 PM
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Just picked up one of the 821-k receivers because someone left it in my computer recycling bin :D. One mans trash and all that. Seems to be in great shape but is having the 5 sec power off issue that has plagued so many of these devices.

From what fraveydank said it seems like the issues are all on one board, being a computer engineer and not an electrical engineer my thought is to just replace the board rather then trying to repair the transistors manually. I wanted to confirm that these issues were isolated to a single board and find out which board that is. From what's been said I assume it's the amp ASSY but would like to confirm.

Thank all, this thread's been very helpful!

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post #48 of 57 Old 12-20-2013, 12:06 PM
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Hi all, Great help already noted through out this whole thread. I wanted to add a couple of small things:

I used to repair just about everything professionally for about 5 years, about a decade ago, so I'm very familiar with this amplifier design and troubleshooting.

A friend asked me to look at his VSX-51. Apparently its the same as a VSX-50, and the same amp chassy as the 1021. Initial findings were no power, but flashing blue MCAAC light. I was able to reset the error with the -tune and Multizone on/off button. I found DC offset on the SBR Channel (Surround back Right)

As most repairs go, you can count on the output drivers blown, and the emmiter resistors. (The very low resistance, High power resistors you see just after the outputs.) You should always diode check the predriver transistors and the biasing resists around it. I found a couple of low ohm resistors blown also. The good news is most of the time you can see these are blown. The oddball find was finding R493 and Q417 blown. (33Ohm/1W and a KSA992, same as a few of the predriver xistors in the driver ch) This is a -B monitor line, so I'm guessing these were blown bringing it out of protect mode.

Always desolder at least two of the legs of a transistor when trying to test in ckt, Sometimes you'll bias on other transistors and it will give you a false reading if you don't. Also, the hard to find KSA 3206 is available through MCMelectronics. I hate paying $5 for shipping on a $0.50 part but I haven't found it at any of the other spots yet.

And to wrap up, All of this was cause due to a remote IR repeater getting stuck and cracking the volume all the way up until the amp blew up. Fun times.

Happy troubleshooting
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post #49 of 57 Old 12-21-2013, 05:59 PM
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Hi guys
Just sharing my experience to my receiver model vsx822k. Anyways mine started showing temp error (decreasing sound every 10 to 20 sec) 3 weeks before end of my warranty and this what they replaced
DESCRIPTION: AMP ASSY
PART NO:7028070245010-IL.the technician wasn't there when i picked up my receiver but the lady told me this is what they replaced.
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post #50 of 57 Old 01-14-2014, 04:18 PM
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I am using the Harmony 880 remote for control of my components (Panasonic TV, DVR and a Pioneer VSX-521-k AV Receiver. When selecting to turn these devise ON, Panasonic comes ON, DVR comes ON and the Pioneer AV comes ON and then OFF?

 

If I use the Help function on the 880 Remote I can turn on the Pioneer AV and it will stay on OK. Small inconvenience, anybody have a suggestion? I have adjusted the remote control signal delays from min to max with no appreciable effect.

 

Turning OFF the devices with the emote is no issue. read somewhere that the Panasonic TV should turned on last?

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post #51 of 57 Old 01-21-2014, 11:33 PM
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Picked up a VSX-922K two months before. It was working fine as 5.1 system with Onkyo SKF 4700 5.1 package (8 ohms 130 watts) till last fortnight. Then the power failure problem started and the iphone LED blinks. Last week, I bought 10 Nos. of banana plugs and they have been used to avoid speaker cable problems, if any. Other cables are also intact and fine. On googling, I tried this by unplugging all the cables from the unit for a day / three days, which helped to run the unit for ½ day or a full day to the maximum. On the next day, the power failure problem starts. After that, I also tried resetting (by pressing ENTER & STANDBY/ON) the unit few times, which helps to run the unit for few minutes / hours only. The firmware version was updated to the latest 1-188-076-019-140. But, the problem still exists.

Yesterday, on going through this thread, when the unit was in the state of power failure problem, I tried for error detection count on my receiver by press & hold [PRESET <–] &[ STANDBY/ON] buttons. But the unit does not power on. I also tried for error reset as mentioned in this thread. But the unit didn’t show CLEAR message or anything. The unit does not even power on. One hour prior to the above attempt, when the unit was in the state of working condition, I tried the above procedure. But the result was same.

I want to mention here that in the front panel of the VSX 922K receiver, ALC and STANDARD SURR are represented by two different buttons. If it so, whether I have to press the three buttons simultaneously, i.e., ALC + STANDARD SURR + STANDBY/ON.

Before approaching a Pioneer Service Centre, requesting for help to set right the problem myself with the help of members.
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post #52 of 57 Old 01-23-2014, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moef View Post

I am using the Harmony 880 remote for control of my components (Panasonic TV, DVR and a Pioneer VSX-521-k AV Receiver. When selecting to turn these devise ON, Panasonic comes ON, DVR comes ON and the Pioneer AV comes ON and then OFF?

If I use the Help function on the 880 Remote I can turn on the Pioneer AV and it will stay on OK. Small inconvenience, anybody have a suggestion? I have adjusted the remote control signal delays from min to max with no appreciable effect.

Turning OFF the devices with the emote is no issue. read somewhere that the Panasonic TV should turned on last?


Check your hdmi arc setting to off on your tv and receiver
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post #53 of 57 Old 02-11-2014, 07:08 PM
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if thats the case how do i upgrade firmware?

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post #54 of 57 Old 02-22-2014, 01:49 PM
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Pioneer VSF-1022-K

Bought : August 2012

Issue Started : Feb 2014

 

All of a sudden TEMP error and When check the Log, OVER load error.

 

Covered by extended warranty so lets see what they will come up with.

 

It is very poor make and I guess Pioneer should recall these models to keep its loyal customers.

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post #55 of 57 Old 03-03-2014, 01:32 PM
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hi good peple how can i reset vsx420 please help

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post #56 of 57 Old 06-16-2014, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siva1234 View Post
I want to mention here that in the front panel of the VSX 922K receiver, ALC and STANDARD SURR are represented by two different buttons. If it so, whether I have to press the three buttons simultaneously, i.e., ALC + STANDARD SURR + STANDBY/ON.
I own a VSX-522K. It went dead on me two days ago with a loud thud from the rear left speaker and not able to switch on again.

This is my second pioneer receiver. And this 522K is barely over 1 year old. So it is out of warranty.

Bro, i tried your suggestion by pressing the ALC+Advanced surround+Standby it powered up! Now i am listening music writing this post.

Many many thanks for writing that post. I almost committed to buying the Yamaha receiver costing 1.5K.

Nevertheless, i still completely lost faith in Pioneer, will not buy another again.
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post #57 of 57 Old 06-20-2014, 06:33 AM
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A little bit of info I think you all will find useful. First things first. This entire array of receivers - IS NOT manufactured by Pioneer.


Yes, they look, taste, smell, and may even sound like a Pioneer. They are NOT. ALL of Pioneers current (3 years ago, and to date) are manufactured by a 3rd party company, along with Denons lower end receiver lines, and even Marantz. I have serviced probably 100 or so home theater receivers made within the last 2-3 years, and I can verify this simply by the fact that you should normally NOT be able to swap amplifer boards, power supplies, etc... BETWEEN BRANDS.


These low end receivers are designed to fail just as they are doing. The power issues that some are having I know are NOT related to the power amplifier circuits. I currently have 2 VSX-1020-K receivers, pretty much identical to the 1021 and 1022, that both will sometimes power up, display some garbled info on the built in LCD, power down, the PQLS light blinks etc... same routine over and over.


Disconnecting the amplifier completely from the receiver will not return the receiver to normal functionality. I have noticed this problem is apparently occurring in the FACEPLATE of the receivers. I have not tracked it down to a specific component on the faceplate, but I have noticed that hard vibration, or heat will cause this issue to happen.


My best guess is bad soldering on the ICs of the face, as is usually common these days with ROHS electronics. Once I have resolved this issue I will be happy to report back the actual fix.

My Home Theater Thread

The real honest reason I am using my Bose, is because one of the JBL woofers blew out.
Jeremy112 is offline  
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Pioneer Vsx 521 K 5 1 Home Theater Receiver Glossy Black

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