Upconverting Receivers still necessary? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 12-31-2012, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, after a lot of research, I am leaning to buying separate components to my 5.1 surround. (not HTIB). I need 3d, and Airplay would be nice. Will I need upconverting still with today's technology? It'll be playing primarily for sony's XBR, blueray, etc. The upconverting will be needed for all my old pre HD dvds as well as the WII.

I'm looking at the usuals, Denon, Harmon Karden, Onkyo.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 43 Old 12-31-2012, 08:37 AM
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If you have non-HDMI components to connect and you want to pass them to the TV via HDMI, then yes, you'll need an upconverting AVR. Note that in the Denon line, the 1912 (last year) or 1913 (current model) is the lowest model in their respective series that have this feature.

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post #3 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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The components will be HD ready (ie PS3 bluray player, DVR, DVD recorder, video camera). But since I'll be playing tons of non HD dvds on the bluray player and sending the signal via HDMI to the receiver and then to the tv, will I need an upconverting receiver?

My alternative is to just connect each component to the tv and use my old Onkyo receiver (non HD) and buy new 5.1 surround speakers/sub. I'm not sure how that will affect the sound if I'm running optical and co ax.

Thanks!
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post #4 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 06:40 AM
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You're confusing "upconverting" with "upscaling" .... the former refers to converting analog --> HDMI (eg. composite video/component video to HDMI), a feature you don't appear to require if all your source devices connect with an HDMI cable, and the latter which refers to upscaling the resolution from a lower resolution (eg. 480i/p DVD) to 1080p/4k (depending on the video chip in the AVR). Whether the video chip in the AVR does a better job upscaling DVDs depends on whether the source (eg. Blu Ray player) or the TV itself can do a better job, although in most cases if the answer is yes, it's subtle at best (not night and day).

What is your max budget? What other features do you want? To see a comparison of the Denon line, review post #2 of the Denon AVR-XX13 Owner's thread linked in my sig. You can also likely get a great deal on one of last year's XX12 models on clearance.

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post #5 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaterjunkie12 View Post

Hey guys, after a lot of research, I am leaning to buying separate components to my 5.1 surround. (not HTIB). I need 3d, and Airplay would be nice. Will I need upconverting still with today's technology? It'll be playing primarily for sony's XBR, blueray, etc. The upconverting will be needed for all my old pre HD dvds as well as the WII.

I'm looking at the usuals, Denon, Harmon Karden, Onkyo.

I rely on my modestly priced Panasonic BD63 Blu Ray player to upconvert DVDs for viewing on my 60" Mitsubishi TV. Works a treat!
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post #6 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks extremely helpful, thank you a ton.

My original budget for HTIB was $400-500 only because my prior system was an Onkyo that treated me well. I still have the original non HD receiver and need to decide how to proceed. Looks like my budget now will be $500-700 for individual components. I looked hard at the Best Buy Denon receiver matched with Boston Acoustics speakers ($500), but I would sacrifice some features.

I'll check out your threads, as well as last year's models....any recommendations?

Seems like I don't require upconverting or upscaling which will save me some $$ that will keep me on par with getting a better system with better speakers on the same budget. I do need 3D, Airplay is nice, and want to stay as close to what the future of AV as possible.
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post #7 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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good idea, do you know if the ps3 will upconvert?
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post #8 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaterjunkie12 View Post

good idea, do you know if the ps3 will upconvert?

Yes, as a matter of fact it is considered one of the best upcoverting players available.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!

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post #9 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm on the right track then, now I just need a receiver to do all the latter (not upconvert/upscale) to pair with some speakers and sub. I really liked the kplisch speakers from best buy.
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post #10 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 08:09 AM
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Check any local area Best Buy, HH Gregg, Fry's or other electronics stores in your area for clearance sales on last year's models. Either the 1612 or newer 1613 would likely serve you well. The BA speaker + Denon package is generally the lowest level model (1312 or 1513) neither of which has the Audyssey auto EQ program and therefore not recommended. The following bundle would be inside your budget from Electronics Expo (authorized Denon reseller) and offers 3D, Airplay, upconverting, and upscaling to 1080p ....

http://www.electronics-expo.com/Denon-AVR-1913-Channel-Networking-Receiv/dp/B009E7B1XA?field_availability=-1&field_browse=6261057011&field_product_site_launch_date_utc=-1y&id=Denon+AVR-1913+Channel+Networking+Receiv&ie=UTF8&refinementHistory=brandtextbin%2Csubjectbin%2Ccolor_map%2Cprice%2Csize_name%2Cspecial_features&searchNodeID=6261057011&searchPage=1&searchRank=salesrank&searchSize=12

Give them a call and see if they'll bundle either the 1613 or 1713 with those speakers if you want a lower price.

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post #11 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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That one looks really good (AVR 1913) but it reflects a 7.1 channel, and the picture has 5.1 speakers. Is that a problem?

Thanks a ton for the info!
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post #12 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 08:20 AM
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Not a problem at all as a 7.1 AVR can run as few as two speakers (ie. 2.0 setup). It also offers the capability of using 5.1 in the main zone, while also using another set of stereo speakers in Zone 2 (eg. patio, back deck, office, bedroom, etc.).

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_M


Edit: I see they offer the same speaker package with the 1613 as well for about $120 less.

http://www.electronics-expo.com/Denon-AVR-1613-Channel-Through-Networking/dp/B009E7B06S?field_availability=-1&field_browse=6261057011&field_product_site_launch_date_utc=-1y&id=Denon+AVR-1613+Channel+Through+Networking&ie=UTF8&refinementHistory=brandtextbin%2Csubjectbin%2Ccolor_map%2Cprice%2Csize_name%2Cspecial_features&searchNodeID=6261057011&searchPage=1&searchRank=salesrank&searchSize=12

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post #13 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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now you've got my ideas flowing. Speakers outside on the patio are a great idea. Thanks a ton, I've got some research to do looking at all your options. What's the difference between the 1913 and the 1613 (besides the 7.1 vs 5.1 of course)
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post #14 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 08:41 AM
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That would be the biggy ... ie. no Zone 2 with the 1613, and although no upconverting/upscaling as well, not features you really need. Both have basically the same networking sources (Airplay, Pandora, SiriusXm) except the 1913 added Spotify via a firmware update last Sep.

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post #15 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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looks like i should go with the 1913 to connect with I-phone 4S to run outside in zone 2. That seems to be the best idea.
I'm probably asking a lot, but thanks again
Do they have the ability to run the I phone in zone 2 only, and run the television (or bluray) on the main one separately?
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yep, with the xx13 models you can use Airplay in Zone 2 while watching something else in the main room.The 1913 should do the trick for you.

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post #17 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
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looks like i should go with the 1913 to connect with I-phone 4S to run outside in zone 2. That seems to be the best idea.
I'm probably asking a lot, but thanks again
Do they have the ability to run the I phone in zone 2 only, and run the television (or bluray) on the main one separately?

Yes, although note the Airplay source must first be selected in the main zone and Zone 2 and then another source can be selected in the main zone other than the Airplay source. Also note that the XX12 models do not have this capability, rather Airplay remains fixed on both main and Zone 2 (just in case you find a clearance deal on a XX12 model, although this issue can be alleviated by simply connecting an Apple TV ($99) to the XX12 model).

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post #18 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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whew you guys have a lot of great info, thanks!

How's everyone like the speakers? I see they get great reviews. I am guessing they might be compared to the klipsch (which I've heard already).
Looks like this is the set, unless someone says otherwise. Price seems pretty good too. Why is it so much lower on your recommended website? crutchfield is asking almost that much for just the receiver.
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post #19 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Also on the speakers, are the MLT 1's able to mount on the universal stands? I'm hoping to keep them off the walls.

Thanks!
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post #20 of 43 Old 01-01-2013, 05:36 PM
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There are several of the authorized resellers that sell at a discount off MSRP .... Crutchfield is generally not one of them, however, they do offer a 60 day return period while Electronics Expo only offers a 15 day return period.

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post #21 of 43 Old 01-02-2013, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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that's great, all I need to do now is order! Not sure if I'm going to need networking, but it'll be there if i need it. I'm guessing you guys recommend buying the 16 ga wire or is the stock wire ok with the 1913?
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post #22 of 43 Old 01-02-2013, 07:32 AM
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What stock wire? I don't think the MLT-1 comes with speaker wire.

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post #23 of 43 Old 01-02-2013, 07:36 AM
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that's great, all I need to do now is order! Not sure if I'm going to need networking, but it'll be there if i need it. I'm guessing you guys recommend buying the 16 ga wire or is the stock wire ok with the 1913?

Depending on cable lengths, hardware store/home improvement store low voltage 2-conductor cable in the 12-16 gauge range is the best thing for you.
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post #24 of 43 Old 01-02-2013, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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HAHA! shame on me for assuming they'd include the wire. Thanks, I'll run to Lowes and grab some 12 ga
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post #25 of 43 Old 01-09-2013, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Any recommendations for the 2nd zone speakers I'm going to use. They'll be outside and need to be waterproof and ideally seated on the floor and/or can be hidden in the garden. Thanks!
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post #26 of 43 Old 01-10-2013, 01:34 AM
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http://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com/outdoorspeakers.html?gclid=CJv_2IW-3bQCFQ3nnAodFXQAvA

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post #27 of 43 Old 12-07-2013, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok I never bought the denon with mlt 1 speakers due to money.... But I'm now ready. Is this still a good system to buy or is there a compareable system?
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post #28 of 43 Old 12-08-2013, 03:52 AM
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Depends on whether you want any of the newer features on the successor model, the E400.

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post #29 of 43 Old 12-08-2013, 04:28 AM
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Depends on whether you want any of the newer features on the successor model, the E400.

Also, the actual difference in price needs to be considered. The sources I'm looking at don't seem to demand that much of a premium for the newer AVR, which means that for the difference, its probably better to go with the newer box. I don't see where the E400 has suffered quality-wise as compared to the 1913, which sometimes happens. The same basic meat is there.

IMO this system is a bit unbalanced and weak in the speaker department. The MLT-1 speakers look to me like HTIB speakers without the AVR while either AVR is near the top of low-priced AVRs.

I just was conferencing with anotehr guy who had, if memory serves an 8" sub. While Audyssey was able to equalize it for bass extension, he was running out of dynamic range with the sub when he got brave and actually tried to listen to a movie at his preferred SPL. I'm a strong advocate of getting at least 12" subs - one of the better low priced ones such as the Acoustech F12.
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post #30 of 43 Old 12-08-2013, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll check out the new E400. The avr 1913 would be $446 on amazon and mlt 1 is $299 and mlt 2 is $299. Which is better for the same price? I forgot the original prices of both.

Can anyone sum up the new E400 compared to what I was going to get in the 1913? I can't think of anything else I would need....except a second zone that could do more than analog (use apple music).

Thanks again for all the info.
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