Anyone here using an Emotiva UMC-200? What are your thoughts? - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 07:08 AM
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Well I did eventually learn...lol

Well then there is the UMC-200 fiasco...

Fool me once, shame on you!

Fool me twice, shame on me!

They seem to have a lot of fools (myself included) who keep believing that they will "fix" things ... eventually.
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Ouch!
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post #272 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 07:24 AM
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Go read his job description (the posted part) and you will find that is exactly what Andrew is at Emotiva...he produces content to go to the masses and he is paid by Emotiva/Jade/whatever. I would suggest you actually go read what a Shill is and then look up what Paid adds to the term.

Andrew is a paid staff member, and you have no idea what he did or did not do for his update outside of the statement that he didn't do it by himself, that he had someone come over to assist or take the lead.

Journalistic independance comes form being independant...Andrew is not independant any longer no matter how much you are a fan of his your words don't strike a straight chord here. There is a great place for your posts where they will be appreciated. Possibly you should concentrate there?

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To say Andrew is a paid shill is ignorant and frankly dumb. He stopped working for his last job in part because he wouldn't stop reviewing small companies and giving them good reviews even though his boss wanted him to push more expensive products that they smooze with. He did the update and finished it in 20 minutes. What do you want him to say. It was incredibly hard when it wasn't. I don't read the emo lounge so i don't know what he said their but you didn't quote him saying anything poor. Why do I respect his opinion, because he gives good advice, answers your direct question on his site thoroughly, not just a couple of sentences. I asked him a couple of days ago about buying a processor/amp and he didn't just say buy EMO ! He recommended three different brands and said they all were good and it's a personal choice. Is he perfect, no, nobody is. He gives his opinions not all of which I agree with. What he always is , is respectful. Something that it sounds like some people on the emo lounge are not.
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post #273 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 07:25 AM
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Hey there B Bill (the first "B" is for your status at Emo...lol),

There are know bugs already in the new UMC-200 firmware. That doesn't say that Emo will fix them, but you may need to do another f/w update. Emo doesn't acknowledge bugs per se, nor do the have changelogs (that gets people banned), nor are the open on their issue :rolleyes:s.

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My thoughts exactly. It is quite apparent that the update process for the UMC-200 is not going to be improved. Now Emotiva is saying they "hope" the FW update process will be easier for the XMC-1. I believe that when the XMC-1 is released.

Bill
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post #274 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 07:35 AM
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In case it's helpful for those receiving the UMC-200 with the new firmware this week, here are the three major bugs:

1. Turning the UMC-200 on may trigger your amp to come on then off then on again. FIX: Turning video standby on fixes this.
2. Enhanced Bass doesn't work properly. FIX: Set your front speakers to large and then small again before doing any setup. It works properly afterwards.
3. No EQ on Back speakers. FIX: Sorry, no easy fix for this one. Those with 5.1 or 5.2 setups aren't affected.
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post #275 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visiter555 View Post

Hey there B Bill (the first "B" is for your status at Emo...lol),

There are know bugs already in the new UMC-200 firmware. That doesn't say that Emo will fix them, but you may need to do another f/w update. Emo doesn't acknowledge bugs per se, nor do the have changelogs (that gets people banned), nor are the open on their issue :rolleyes:s.

Vis,

It took me a bit to figure out what the "B" was all about. I get it now wink.gif. This is my issue with future FW upgrades as well. In that it is quite obvious that the process is flawed but Emotiva doesn't seem to understand it. The best part is that Emotiva has said they "hope" the FW update process for the XMC-1 will be easier. The use of the word "hope" doesn't give one much confidence that it will actually happen.

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Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

In case it's helpful for those receiving the UMC-200 with the new firmware this week, here are the three major bugs:

1. Turning the UMC-200 on may trigger your amp to come on then off then on again. FIX: Turning video standby on fixes this.
2. Enhanced Bass doesn't work properly. FIX: Set your front speakers to large and then small again before doing any setup. It works properly afterwards.
3. No EQ on Back speakers. FIX: Sorry, no easy fix for this one. Those with 5.1 or 5.2 setups aren't affected.

rnatalli,

To be quite honest it appears to me that Emotiva did very little testing and no beta testing of the new UMC-200 FW. If Emotiva did then those that did the testing missed these issues which doesn't look very good. The other issue I have is it takes end users (like yourself) to point out the bugs and the work arounds to correct them. Not one word from Emotiva on the issues that the new FW addressed or the new issues with the new FW. It is almost like Emotiva thinks that if they do not acknowledge the issues they were never there wink.gif.

The same can be said for the UMC-200's FW update process. It took a few members over at the Emotiva Lounge to provide alternative methods so UMC-200 owners could get the new FW to update. At the same time employees of Emotiva just kept making excuses why the FW update process was not working correctly. Excuses from user error by not following the multi step update process or it must be the end users computer and or settings.

I would have respect for Emotiva as a company if they just came out and said "we screwed up with this FW and the update process". But I highly doubt that will happen.

Bill

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post #276 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 09:43 AM
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It seems to me that Emotiva's greatest strength is a visoionary leader that calls the shots.
It is why we see a company that puts out so much product.
It looks like they operate at about 120% capacity. I say that with the greatest respect for what it takes to run a business.

A pre-pro involves a huge amount of software.
In that world, you can view each problem as different, but in reality, there is a process problem.
Until they come to grips with that, history will repeat itself.

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post #277 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 12:01 PM
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My major problem with this FW is the loader, not the update itself. No company gets the firmware right every time as it's difficult to write FW. Even companies with massive resources like Yamaha make huge mistakes; for example, their BluRay players not playing 3D discs properly. Folks will be waiting at least a couple months for an update and I would not expect Yamaha to come onto any forum to apologize. That said, Emotiva's loader is archaic, and such a difficult update process in this day an age is simply ridiculous. I also feel they should release a change log; this should be as simple as listing what parts of the code they touched and why.
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post #278 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

My major problem with this FW is the loader, not the update itself. No company gets the firmware right every time as it's difficult to write FW. Even companies with massive resources like Yamaha make huge mistakes; for example, their BluRay players not playing 3D discs properly. Folks will be waiting at least a couple months for an update and I would not expect Yamaha to come onto any forum to apologize. That said, Emotiva's loader is archaic, and such a difficult update process in this day an age is simply ridiculous. I also feel they should release a change log; this should be as simple as listing what parts of the code they touched and why.

I agree that there will be issues when a new FW for any A/V component is released. The issue I have with Emotiva is that the bugs are pretty obvious with the new FW. Bugs that could have been found with proper testing IMO. The fact that the loader is outdated is another issue. It seems Emotiva did not feel the need to do an update even after the issues with the UMC-1's FW updates. The fact that Emotiva will not release a change log even after it was promised by Emotiva's owner says quite a bit as well.

Bill

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post #279 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 05:26 PM
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I believe Emotiva's problem is an issue with warranty. Nobody seems to talking about this, but the unit is waranted to be free from defects in materials and workmanship. (BTW, what would firmware be, materials or workmanship, I think workmanship) A unit that won't perform up to standards issued in the owner's manual could be considered defective. When I found out my 200 would not remember surround sound settings (as stated in the owner's manual) I threatened to return the unit under warranty and asked for it to be repaired properly or refund my money. That was when KeithL said a firmware update would take care of it, and it did. Only trouble was, firmware was promised in about two weeks, but took almost three months to finally get to me. I believe Emotiva has a real problem with the user adjusted PEQ. It's not still not available in the rear channels. In the owner's manual they advertised: "Eleven user-programmable fully parametric equalizers per channel". Copy and paste directly from said manual. Now, if you go on their web site it says: "eleven user programmable fully parametric equalizers on each main channel." Again copy and paste. Notice the difference. I believe it used to say on the web site "all channels", but I could be wrong. And then there's the problem with HDMI handshaking. If you have trouble connecting to a STB, BluRay, etc., even if every other pre/pro and receiver in the world handshakes with no problem, Emotiva will blame the other device. If Emotiva admits to there being any problem with the 200, then they could open themselves up to a warranty can of worms. Right now Emotiva is playing CYA (Cover Your A___).
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post #280 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visiter555 View Post

Go read his job description (the posted part) and you will find that is exactly what Andrew is at Emotiva...he produces content to go to the masses and he is paid by Emotiva/Jade/whatever. I would suggest you actually go read what a Shill is and then look up what Paid adds to the term.

Andrew is a paid staff member, and you have no idea what he did or did not do for his update outside of the statement that he didn't do it by himself, that he had someone come over to assist or take the lead.

Journalistic independance comes form being independant...Andrew is not independant any longer no matter how much you are a fan of his your words don't strike a straight chord here. There is a great place for your posts where they will be appreciated. Possibly you should concentrate there?

Once again your factually wrong. Here's the definition for you "A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing he has a close relationship with the person or organization."

A paid shill will never say anything wrong about the product, even up to and including lying. Kind of like the commission sales staff at Best Buy when they say "that soundbar will be just as good as a full size pair of $1k speakers" just to make the sale. As for the update he explained step by step what he did with a friend watching. I have asked him at least a dozen questions about my home theater setup and his recommendations have made it far superior at a fraction of the cost that others suggested at AV stores. He has recommended products to me since joining jade that are not jade products. (outlaw amp)

Have you had any interaction with him ? Did he give you bad advice ? When I have several interactions with someone and they are helpful and honest each time they earn my trust, unless they break it. He is open with the companies he likes : Tekton, Crown, Jbl, B&W, Emotiva, Outlaw Audio, Parasound, Behringer, etc. He likes those products.

He declared right away that he got the job with Jade. So once he becomes an employee he can't be trusted ? He is afraid to give his opinion in lieu of getting fired ? So when you ask the guy at Home Depot for advice you discount anything he says cause he is just going to sell you the most expensive item ? That's why i get my facts from several sources. I am not sitting at the Andrew trough just saying " Your great".

I read many other audio sites including Andrew Robinson's site. I don't read the emo lounge because I don't read any site thats mainly about one company product. I wouldn't read B&W, or focal, or any other single company site.

As far as Journalistic Independance goes, everyone has a bias towards certain products. Whether their being paid or not its up to the consumer or the reader to use critical thinking skills and research to come up with an informed opinion. That's all it is , an opinion. No one can claim this movie or speaker is the best. I read dozens of writers reviews on av equipment and over the years I have 3-4 writers who seem to like similar stuff to me. I have a personal banker who I trust (10 years), mechanic (5 years), fav. restaurant (20years), and so forth. I listen to what they say and then if all my research is split I often will defer to their judgement. If the research is heavily against them I will go with my info.

Whether people appreciate my post is not important. Obviously you don't which is fine. Another on this very page said "Chaluga, Well Said!". I post to give my opinion as others due. I will continue. I will continue to be biased towards people who give me good advice.
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post #281 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 07:40 PM
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Bill, you do not have any direct experience with this product, nor any Emo product in several years, yet you continue to post negative comments to the point of obsession. What is your experience with the 200 and firmware bugs? You have none. Then you extrapolate to a product that has not been released. "Bugs in the firmware are obvious" yet you don't have the unit, so you don't know.

We get it. Based on reading 15 or 20 users direct experience, this company does not meet your expectations. Yammy has firmware issues, Onkyo has hardware and support issues...it seems to me that your beef is communication. A small company has the president posting on their site, and you take the delays as personal as if they owe you something. Buy their stuff or don't. Realize the value of a $599 pre-pro with far SUPERIOR sound to 2-3 year old Denon or Onkyo AVRs costing more that twice as much and used as a pre-pro...or not.

You base your opinion on communication with this company based on internet comments and their response on their sales website. This is far from the real world measure. Buy the product, call them with issues, and compare to any big name then. This is the real value of experience, and in my experience, you will not find more value.
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post #282 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zomby Woof View Post

Bill, you do not have any direct experience with this product, nor any Emo product in several years, yet you continue to post negative comments to the point of obsession. What is your experience with the 200 and firmware bugs? You have none. Then you extrapolate to a product that has not been released. "Bugs in the firmware are obvious" yet you don't have the unit, so you don't know.

We get it. Based on reading 15 or 20 users direct experience, this company does not meet your expectations. Yammy has firmware issues, Onkyo has hardware and support issues...it seems to me that your beef is communication. A small company has the president posting on their site, and you take the delays as personal as if they owe you something. Buy their stuff or don't. Realize the value of a $599 pre-pro with far SUPERIOR sound to 2-3 year old Denon or Onkyo AVRs costing more that twice as much and used as a pre-pro...or not.

You base your opinion on communication with this company based on internet comments and their response on their sales website. This is far from the real world measure. Buy the product, call them with issues, and compare to any big name then. This is the real value of experience, and in my experience, you will not find more value.

Zomby,

Tell me why would I need to have "direct" experience with this product to know it is flawed? I was very close to buying the UMC-200. But then when the long promised FW arrived numerous UMC-200 owners had issues loading the FW. So was I going to buy a product that is flawed with a FW that is also flawed and very difficult to load? I don't think so. By reading numerous posts from UMC-200 owners on the Emotiva Lounge backs this up. Did you not read them or are you in denial? Do you own the Yamaha with FW issues or the Onkyo with hardware and support issues? If not then how do you know this? Oh right by internet comments wink.gif.

I've owned the UMC-1 and in no way did it sound far "SUPERIOR" to the Onkyo and Denon IMO. In a thread over at the Lounge someone asked if replacing their UMC-1 with the UMC-200 would be an improvement in SQ. Several responses said as far as SQ they were very close if not sounded the same. So tell me why would I need to buy the UMC-200 to experience SQ that I'm familiar with? Value? To me value is when you buy a product and it performs as the company says it will. Well that isn't entirely true with the UMC-200. All one has to do is visit this thread or several threads over at the Lounge and one will see that.

If you feel the UMC-200 is a great value and sounds "SUPERIOR" then that's great and I respect your opinion. But I also have every right to post my opinions about a product whether I own it or not.

Bill

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post #283 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 09:04 PM
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Although I seem to disagree with many of your posts bill I do appreciate the way you frame your argument . Your strong but not over the top. I see the owning equipment or direct experience in terms of a movie . Before I watch a movie I check IMDB rating and watch a trailer and sometimes hear friends comments . Two thirds of the time it works out but at least one third of the time watching the movie creates a different opinion from me.

Everyone told me borat was good , high IMDB score , and for me one of the worst movies I have ever watched . Gladiator with russell Crowe one of my favorites.

I have had the same argument over speakers . Some say the measurements and specs tell you everything . I have to hear to form a true opinion . I can see how a previous bad encounter with a company will sour u. I will wait at least a couple more months before I possibly pull the trigger . With the 30 day return its less of a risk.
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post #284 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 09:11 PM
 
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Owning a given product is not the only experience one can learn from, that is what forums are all about. It's short sighted to think that the only way one can speak about a given product is if one owns it. Many posters give good advice and analysis around here, and Bill is certainly one of those.
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post #285 of 539 Old 05-27-2013, 09:37 PM
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So you buy a car without giving it a test drive ? Buy a home to move your family in for the next few years only looking at pictures online ? I guess I am different . I do agree you need a variety of sources and opinions , including forums. Sometimes you take a leap of faith but I put a lot more stock in someone's opinion when they have tried the product .
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post #286 of 539 Old 05-28-2013, 01:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

So you buy a car without giving it a test drive ? Buy a home to move your family in for the next few years only looking at pictures online ? I guess I am different . I do agree you need a variety of sources and opinions , including forums. Sometimes you take a leap of faith but I put a lot more stock in someone's opinion when they have tried the product .


What? Uh, no, I don't buy a car without test driving it, but I have posted about cars I don't own. And I form opinions about a dozen other things without actually owning it first, just as you have formed an opinion on the UMC-200 without owning it first.
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post #287 of 539 Old 05-28-2013, 05:05 AM
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Everyone told me borat was good , high IMDB score , and for me one of the worst movies I have ever watched .

Glad I'm not the only one who had this experience smile.gif
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post #288 of 539 Old 05-28-2013, 09:36 PM
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Anyone figured out who the source is for these cirrus based units?
That's where these engineering loaders are coming from.
Curious as to what Outlaw is going to do with firmware upgrades on their 975.

Are you really hearing a difference?
http://youtu.be/G-lN8vWm3m0
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post #289 of 539 Old 05-29-2013, 08:51 AM
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Some bugs remaining that the latest firmware did not resolve.

One, is double-triggering. You hear one click as the UMC powers up, (the light on my XPA-5 goes blue for second, then back to amber). A couple of seconds later another click, the amber on the amp goes blue and stays there and goes through the power on cycle.This is symptomatic of double-triggering, where the first trigger from the UMC drops out and then is reapplied.

The other is related to Enhanced (LFE) ON or OFF. With SMALL chosen, Enhanced remains OFF. In fact, it is not even accessible to switch ON as long as SMALL is chosen.
When LARGE is chosen Enhanced becomes selectable. This all sounds reasonable at first glance.

Unfortunately, it is not foolproof. If you hit RESET SETTINGS on the same menu, and have SMALL selected, Enhanced will be ON. Now, you can go to SMALL and cycle it to LARGE and then back to SMALL and Enhanced will go OFF. And stay OFF and can not be changed as long as speakers remain SMALL.
Previously you could toggle SMALL & LARGE all day and get Enhanced to misbehave. Now, you can only do it ONCE right after doing a RESET SETTINGS, So it's not fixed, but works better (???).

There are couple of other bugs, like not being able to assign a HotKey to the Bluetooth input. Another is not having PEQ available for rear surround channels.
The triggering is only thing that bothers me at this point, although it does work. I can be very selfish and ignore other things I don't need. None of this surprises me, but kind of goes along with Emo's decision not to provide a list of changes. It would not be wise to provide a list and then be called on it and admit you were not thorough enough in your testing routine.

Recently on a customer service complaint emo rep "K" basically said (these are my words>): no one should ever expect good customer service at WalMart and only exemplary service at a Bentley dealership. Kind of putting Emo in the lower part of that spectrum as an excuse for not responding to a customer with more clarity. In all fairness, Keith has been helpful with many different issues, but there is always this underlying attitude. I think it is reflective of a larger problem.
In this case, I thought the poster was a little over the top, but the response was still inappropriate.
Somehow I think they take the Emotiva forum as a relaxed place to discuss problems. And that's fine, I like that part. But when a real problem is revealed, I would expect the mfg to respond professionally and responsibly, and not like a neighbor who keeps forgetting to return my lawnmower.
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post #290 of 539 Old 05-29-2013, 09:26 AM
 
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Bootman, you're an Emotiva lounge guy, what have you been hearing over there about these new bugs?
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post #291 of 539 Old 05-29-2013, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

Bootman, you're an Emotiva lounge guy, what have you been hearing over there about these new bugs?

The above post pretty much nails it. (and these are not new bugs just those that where not addressed in this release) IMO they are minor but can be annoying.
One reported bug documented by one poster here on the headphone out is one that bothers me.
I'm a headphone user and this pretty much would make the headphone out of the UMC-200 useless if I had the unit.
Not surprising it wasn't picked up in professional reviews. They never really test headphone outputs.

As far as the upgrade procedure, IMO it looks like Emotiva is working with an engineering loader from Cirrus and that is what is given in turn to end users.
Since it is pretty obvious they don't have any programmers in house int he US, I'm not sure how they are going to handle future upgrades.

The XMC based on a TI platform will be different just by the nature of the platform.
We might be able to deduce how that will go if we follow the upgrades of other devices using the same platform.
Doesn't the current top tier Onkyos use TI TMS320DA8x?

If so it should be a simple network upgrade.

Are you really hearing a difference?
http://youtu.be/G-lN8vWm3m0
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post #292 of 539 Old 05-29-2013, 02:02 PM
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Interesting insight, thanks bootman.
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post #293 of 539 Old 05-29-2013, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoaddikt View Post

Interesting insight, thanks bootman.

Take them with a grain of salt as it is just some speculation on my part. (the TI ship was confirmed by Emotiva).

Are you really hearing a difference?
http://youtu.be/G-lN8vWm3m0
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post #294 of 539 Old 05-30-2013, 06:40 AM
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I love the way you picked one of the many iterations of the definition of Shill...the one that suits you. Your comments and approach indicate that you are extremely closed, so be it and enjoy. Keep patting yourself on the back....rolleyes.gif

Merriam-Webster
a : one who acts as a decoy (as for a pitchman or gambler)
b: one who makes a sales pitch or serves as a promoter [/COLOR

Free Online Dictionary
a person whose praises, endorsements, etc., are motivated by self-interest.

Wikipedia
"Shill" can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, the critic would be an implicit shill for the industry at large, possibly because his income is tied to its prosperity. The origin of the term "shill" is uncertain; it may be an abbreviation of "shillaber." The word originally denoted a carnival worker who pretended to be a member of the audience in an attempt to elicit interest in an attraction. Some sources trace the usage back to 1914


Quote:
Originally Posted by chaluga View Post

Once again your factually wrong. Here's the definition for you "A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing he has a close relationship with the person or organization."

A paid shill will never say anything wrong about the product, even up to and including lying. Kind of like the commission sales staff at Best Buy when they say "that soundbar will be just as good as a full size pair of $1k speakers" just to make the sale. As for the update he explained step by step what he did with a friend watching. I have asked him at least a dozen questions about my home theater setup and his recommendations have made it far superior at a fraction of the cost that others suggested at AV stores. He has recommended products to me since joining jade that are not jade products. (outlaw amp)

Have you had any interaction with him ? Did he give you bad advice ? When I have several interactions with someone and they are helpful and honest each time they earn my trust, unless they break it. He is open with the companies he likes : Tekton, Crown, Jbl, B&W, Emotiva, Outlaw Audio, Parasound, Behringer, etc. He likes those products.

He declared right away that he got the job with Jade. So once he becomes an employee he can't be trusted ? He is afraid to give his opinion in lieu of getting fired ? So when you ask the guy at Home Depot for advice you discount anything he says cause he is just going to sell you the most expensive item ? That's why i get my facts from several sources. I am not sitting at the Andrew trough just saying " Your great".

I read many other audio sites including Andrew Robinson's site. I don't read the emo lounge because I don't read any site thats mainly about one company product. I wouldn't read B&W, or focal, or any other single company site.

As far as Journalistic Independance goes, everyone has a bias towards certain products. Whether their being paid or not its up to the consumer or the reader to use critical thinking skills and research to come up with an informed opinion. That's all it is , an opinion. No one can claim this movie or speaker is the best. I read dozens of writers reviews on av equipment and over the years I have 3-4 writers who seem to like similar stuff to me. I have a personal banker who I trust (10 years), mechanic (5 years), fav. restaurant (20years), and so forth. I listen to what they say and then if all my research is split I often will defer to their judgement. If the research is heavily against them I will go with my info.

Whether people appreciate my post is not important. Obviously you don't which is fine. Another on this very page said "Chaluga, Well Said!". I post to give my opinion as others due. I will continue. I will continue to be biased towards people who give me good advice.
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post #295 of 539 Old 05-30-2013, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visiter555 View Post

I love the way you picked one of the many iterations of the definition of Shill...the one that suits you. Your comments and approach indicate that you are extremely closed, so be it and enjoy. Keep patting yourself on the back....rolleyes.gif

Merriam-Webster
a : one who acts as a decoy (as for a pitchman or gambler)
b: one who makes a sales pitch or serves as a promoter [/COLOR

Free Online Dictionary
a person whose praises, endorsements, etc., are motivated by self-interest.

Wikipedia
"Shill" can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, the critic would be an implicit shill for the industry at large, possibly because his income is tied to its prosperity. The origin of the term "shill" is uncertain; it may be an abbreviation of "shillaber." The word originally denoted a carnival worker who pretended to be a member of the audience in an attempt to elicit interest in an attraction. Some sources trace the usage back to 1914

If there are many definitions didn't you just do the same? confused.gif

It is human nature to interpret what we read with what we want to believe. (preconceived notions)
(this isn't directed at you personally but it applies to everyone in general)

...and what does this have to do with the OP again?

Are you really hearing a difference?
http://youtu.be/G-lN8vWm3m0
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post #296 of 539 Old 05-30-2013, 01:56 PM
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It's good to see new units are shipping with the new FW now. But it seems that it remains unstable and without PEQ for the rear channels it has also lost a lot of the charm for me. I would be nice if Anthem were to release a pre-pro in the format of their MX-300 but without the amps and hence at a lower selling price.
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post #297 of 539 Old 05-30-2013, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigun2 View Post

It's good to see new units are shipping with the new FW now. But it seems that it remains unstable and without PEQ for the rear channels it has also lost a lot of the charm for me. I would be nice if Anthem were to release a pre-pro in the format of their MX-300 but without the amps and hence at a lower selling price.

I have a sinking feeling that the lack of PEQ for the rear surrounds are more of a limitation of the cirrius chip vs something in software.
Hopefully I'm proven wrong.
But that said, how important is PEQ ont he rear surrounds anyway?
I haven't seen anyone's trace of rear surround EQ here at AVS saying , gee I wish I had PEQ for these since they are not ruler flat.
Got to keep things in perspective.
..and who offers PEQ now anyway at this price?
The charm for this unit is it's inexpensive price/performance ratio.
You are now comparing it to a unit that if made would easily be 2x the price.
Think about it a bit.cool.gif

Are you really hearing a difference?
http://youtu.be/G-lN8vWm3m0
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post #298 of 539 Old 05-31-2013, 01:55 PM
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My rear speakers are large 3-way B&W floorstanders. I'd like to be able to tweak their response - one reason is that I think the system would benefit from using the rears and the front mains for their low frequency capabilities. There are benefits from having multiple subs in a system due to room modes and my front mains and rears are all capable of playing very low but I suspect some EQ would be helpful to get the best out of them in the room with the shape it is and the placement constraints I have. My room is not symmetrical.

The lower powered Anthem is only $300 more than the UMC-200 (I could be wrong on that !) and making the Anthem receiver into a pre-pro would allow the use of a smaller, lighter and less expensive power supply and chasis. Costs would also be saved by having no power amplifiers or speaker / temperature protection / mute circuits. So I don't agree it need cost 2X the emo unit. It may be that the market would pay more for the Anthem as it has a very well regarded room calibration system.
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post #299 of 539 Old 05-31-2013, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigun2 View Post

My rear speakers are large 3-way B&W floorstanders. I'd like to be able to tweak their response - one reason is that I think the system would benefit from using the rears and the front mains for their low frequency capabilities. There are benefits from having multiple subs in a system due to room modes and my front mains and rears are all capable of playing very low but I suspect some EQ would be helpful to get the best out of them in the room with the shape it is and the placement constraints I have. My room is not symmetrical.

The lower powered Anthem is only $300 more than the UMC-200 (I could be wrong on that !) and making the Anthem receiver into a pre-pro would allow the use of a smaller, lighter and less expensive power supply and chassis. Costs would also be saved by having no power amplifiers or speaker / temperature protection / mute circuits. So I don't agree it need cost 2X the emo unit. It may be that the market would pay more for the Anthem as it has a very well regarded room calibration system.

No PEQs in that unit, so you would be relying on ARC.
Hum, in your case (full range all around) that might be the better path.
Just verify that the version of ARC in the AVRs is sufficient for your needs.
I believe there are ARC differences between the AVR and the full prepros.
I would ask around in the Anthem threads just to be sure.

You could pick up a MX-300 for about $800 on ebay.
Through a retailer it may be closer to the $1K retail price.

Good luck in your search!

Are you really hearing a difference?
http://youtu.be/G-lN8vWm3m0
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post #300 of 539 Old 05-31-2013, 02:51 PM
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I found this for you:
Quote:
Q: How does the MRX 300/500/700 ARC implementation compare to D2v/AVM50v?
A: ARC consists of software that runs on a user-supplied computer which calculates a room correction solution and a DSP chip in the receiver which implements it. The ARC software is the same for all Anthem A/V receivers and processors. The MRX DSP is about half as powerful as that in the D2v/AVM50v.

Nick @ Anthem elaborates:
MRX 300/500/700 DSP has around the same amount of number crunching ability as anything in the price range, which is around half as much as AVM/D prepros using ARC (and PBK for that matter), which have as much as pro systems in the five figures. This means that MRX 300/500/700 corrected response usually does not meet target response as closely as AVM/D, though it's also usually not too far off.
The other difference is that correction range not only defaults to 5 kHz but cannot be made to go higher. Correction above 5 kHz is not normally recommended regardless.
Another difference not dependent on ARC is that MRX DSP uses crossover frequencies of 60, 80, 100, 120, and 150 whereas AVM/D allows 25-160 in 5 Hz steps. It relates because ARC selects the crossover frequencies based on in-room measured response.
The practical difference depends on the amount of correction the room speaker/combo needs, and this varies greatly. MRX-ARC still improves things regardless, using the same principles as the other ARC.

Are you really hearing a difference?
http://youtu.be/G-lN8vWm3m0
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