Does Amp/Receiver weight mean anything? Why is Denon so light? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 01-04-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking at upgrading from my trusty HK525 to something new. Thinking of the Denon 2313ci.

When I started looking, I was shocked at how much lighter the new receivers are. My existing HK525 is 44 pounds. The "new" Denon 2313ci is only 24 pounds (and the 2113ci is just under 21 pounds).

FWIW, an Onkyo NS-809 is about 40 pounds and I noticed a high end Pioneer SC-67 weights just over 38 pounds.

Does this mean anything now-a-days?

Thanks

(BTW, I see some talk about weight under the amp faq... but what doesn't make sense is I haven't read anyone saying Denon's don't live up to their ratings...)
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post #2 of 8 Old 01-04-2013, 06:14 PM
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AVR power ratings are generally based on 2CH testing even though the marketing implies power to all channels (eg. Denon 1913 @ 90W/CH - 7.1 AVR). Denon units will generally test either at or slightly higher than their marketed rating into 2CH @ 8-ohm (eg. 1913 @90W tested 102W/2CH and 70W/5CH). As long as you are trying to power 6-ohm or 8-ohm speakers with at least 87db+ efficiency, it's more important to focus on the Auto EQ program used rather than the power rating (eg. Audyssey MultEQ XT is used on the Denon "CI" models) as there should be more than enough power from the AVR.

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post #3 of 8 Old 01-04-2013, 07:38 PM
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I can't find an independent measurement of the HK's amplifier.

An amplifier's power supply is what makes up its considerable heft. This is why it's generally been thought that the heavier the amp, the better (the one notable exception is in Class D amplification).
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post #4 of 8 Old 01-04-2013, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

AVR power ratings are generally based on 2CH testing even though the marketing implies power to all channels (eg. Denon 1913 @ 90W/CH - 7.1 AVR). Denon units will generally test either at or slightly higher than their marketed rating into 2CH @ 8-ohm (eg. 1913 @90W tested 102W/2CH and 70W/5CH). As long as you are trying to power 6-ohm or 8-ohm speakers with at least 87db+ efficiency, it's more important to focus on the Auto EQ program used rather than the power rating (eg. Audyssey MultEQ XT is used on the Denon "CI" models) as there should be more than enough power from the AVR.

Not bad (the 70 watt into 5 channels from the markets 90). The 1612 model was rated at 70. something watts into 5 channels at .1 distortion and 79 at 1% distortion. Not bad considering its marketed as 75 watts

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

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post #5 of 8 Old 01-05-2013, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys...

But still need to bring up the fact that the Denon's are very light... whether or not they have "decent" wattage when fully driven.

So either this means the old wisdom that weight is good isn't true... or something is amiss...
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post #6 of 8 Old 01-05-2013, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

Thanks guys...
But still need to bring up the fact that the Denon's are very light... whether or not they have "decent" wattage when fully driven.
So either this means the old wisdom that weight is good isn't true... or something is amiss...

I really like HK products and I understand your concerns.

I have awesome separates in my living room but set-up a nice little rig in my bedroom. I ended up with my first Denon AVR, a 3312. I can tell you that it weighs 26 lbs.

I have been more than surprised how good it is for my little 3.0 set-up in bedroom. Really nice sound quality. I do not use it for stereo so can't comment here.

I was concerned that I would have issues powering the B&W CM5s and center I picked up but it's been fine. I do need to turn up the volume to really get things going but really, for a $1k AVR for TV and occasional movies the 26lb Denon has met all my expectations and then some. I strongly suggest Denon from my user experiences and would suggest to friends wanting an AVR.

I am used to high-end separates and the Denon 3312 has been a nice surprise. I say if the AVR can power your speakers okay you will be fine with an AVR in the mid 20s lb range.
The heavier AVRs may use more robust power supplies and I still agree with this for some applications but really for HT in bedroom the Denon is a nice choice.

I really should play around with stereo a bit more to form a final opinion but my living room reigns king here.

Rick

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post #7 of 8 Old 01-05-2013, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

Thanks guys...
But still need to bring up the fact that the Denon's are very light... whether or not they have "decent" wattage when fully driven.
So either this means the old wisdom that weight is good isn't true... or something is amiss...

Well "something isn't amiss" so take your pick .....wink.gif

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post #8 of 8 Old 01-05-2013, 12:29 PM
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Power supplies have been down-sizing for years for various reasons. One is that transformers have gotten smaller and lighter using newer core materials; some designs may utilize switching supplies that are very lightweight. More likely is the recognition that peaks are not sustained for long, so a smaller core is acceptable since it need not provide full power on a continuous basis. Smaller transformer core, smaller filter capacitors, less heat sinking, less weight... I am sure there are other reasons I haven't thought of in the past minute or two. In the real world, as has been implied/mentioned before, for most people (speakers, rooms, volume, etc.) it does not matter. The AVR can supply more than enough power (few Watts) during normal listening and has the capacity to provide brief peaks as needed.

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