2013 4K Harman Kardon AVR 2700 & 3700 receivers - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 802 Old 10-09-2013, 12:42 PM
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Has anyone compared the 2700 or the 3700 to the Anthem MRX300? I purchased a refurbished AVR2600 just to get me by until I could make up my mind what to purchase. After trying out higher end Marantz, Denon, Pioneer Elite ClassD3 models, I have determined that I cannot give up my 2600 for now. Before I pull the trigger on one of the HK models, I want to look and compare the Anthem. I hear great things about them. Any thoughts are appreciated.
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post #182 of 802 Old 10-09-2013, 12:49 PM
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One other note from my last post. On my AVR2600, The default for CD's is Logic. I am required to switch it each time to 2 channel stereo if playing through the HDMI connectors, and apparently cannot set the default to 2 channel. On the 2700 and 3700, does it automatically detect a CD and go to 2 channel or do you have to switch it yourself. The second question to that is can you set the 2 channel as a default? All of the other brands defaulted to 2 channel stereo when the receiver detected a cd. This made things easier.
Thanks.
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post #183 of 802 Old 10-09-2013, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmon Fan View Post

Has anyone compared the 2700 or the 3700 to the Anthem MRX300? I purchased a refurbished AVR2600 just to get me by until I could make up my mind what to purchase. After trying out higher end Marantz, Denon, Pioneer Elite ClassD3 models, I have determined that I cannot give up my 2600 for now. Before I pull the trigger on one of the HK models, I want to look and compare the Anthem. I hear great things about them. Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

If i was you keep with Marantz, Denon, Pioneer Elite, Harman.

More features , better price.

Much marketing on anthem. don't worth the price.

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post #184 of 802 Old 10-09-2013, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Harmon Fan View Post

One other note from my last post. On my AVR2600, The default for CD's is Logic. I am required to switch it each time to 2 channel stereo if playing through the HDMI connectors, and apparently cannot set the default to 2 channel. On the 2700 and 3700, does it automatically detect a CD and go to 2 channel or do you have to switch it yourself. The second question to that is can you set the 2 channel as a default? All of the other brands defaulted to 2 channel stereo when the receiver detected a cd. This made things easier.
Thanks.

As long as i know , you can save your preffered sound mode on surround modes.

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post #185 of 802 Old 10-09-2013, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Harmon Fan View Post

One other note from my last post. On my AVR2600, The default for CD's is Logic. I am required to switch it each time to 2 channel stereo if playing through the HDMI connectors, and apparently cannot set the default to 2 channel. On the 2700 and 3700, does it automatically detect a CD and go to 2 channel or do you have to switch it yourself. The second question to that is can you set the 2 channel as a default? All of the other brands defaulted to 2 channel stereo when the receiver detected a cd. This made things easier.
Thanks.

On my 1600 it remembers the setting for each input. My Apple TV is set to stereo since I listen to music through it mostly, Direct TV and Blu-ray are set to auto detect.

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post #186 of 802 Old 10-09-2013, 07:06 PM
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I haven't had a chance to watch any bluray movies on my new 3700 but I have been very impressed with the sound when it comes to a dvd my kids watched and some of the music I've been listening to. On a side note though I've been using my B&K amplifier so I don't know how it will sound on internal power but I'll try to find out this weekend. What a smooth, mellow and dynamic sounding receiver. I also set it up using my db meter and a tape measure for speaker distance only so no auto eq setup.

Overall I think it sounds better than my 7550 which may have had something wrong with it for a long time because it didn't sound this good.
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post #187 of 802 Old 10-10-2013, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by andriy View Post

It's been 2 days and there is no reply from customer support yet. Would anybody care to comment on multichannel DSD/PCM compatibility.

H/K avr's do not decode DSD so you have to set your blu ray to output multi channel pcm and it will work just fine. I have an avr3600 and Sony BDP-S5100 and SACD's sound awesome!! The avr outputs the sound as multi channel pcm at 176.4khz.
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post #188 of 802 Old 10-12-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by corchid View Post

H/K avr's do not decode DSD so you have to set your blu ray to output multi channel pcm and it will work just fine. I have an avr3600 and Sony BDP-S5100 and SACD's sound awesome!! The avr outputs the sound as multi channel pcm at 176.4khz.

Thank you very much. As long as it can play them I'm alright. My current Yamaha decodes DSD to 88KHz, so I actually prefer decoding to 176KHz in Sony S570. My 3700 should arrive on Tue, I'll give it a spin.
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post #189 of 802 Old 10-13-2013, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by andriy View Post

Thank you very much. As long as it can play them I'm alright. My current Yamaha decodes DSD to 88KHz, so I actually prefer decoding to 176KHz in Sony S570. My 3700 should arrive on Tue, I'll give it a spin.

You'll be pleased. High resolution music is sonic nirvana on a H/K!
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post #190 of 802 Old 10-14-2013, 03:24 PM
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Even music off my XBMC Media player sounds sweet on my 2700. I turn off the Dolby volume listening to music, with TV I keep it on medium. Movies at night I use dolby volume on medium. Watching movies daytime if i want to make some noise I use dolby volume at the low setting. I have turned off my ez set/eq, Dynamics are even better, bass punchier, the definition in the detail opened up. I used a tape measure to check distances and used a Radio Shack SPL Meter for levels. The levels and distances I had to make small adjustments to, the crossovers were way off. Now I am happy, love the sound.
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post #191 of 802 Old 10-14-2013, 08:41 PM
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Has anyone done a critical listening comparison between the AVR 2600 and the AVR 2700 or 3700? Is it worth the upgrade? I like my 2600 refurb fine, and do not believe I would use anymore of the new features available on the new receivers. I purchased the 2600 just to use until i find something that really makes a difference. Thanks for any replies.
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post #192 of 802 Old 10-15-2013, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Harmon Fan View Post

Has anyone done a critical listening comparison between the AVR 2600 and the AVR 2700 or 3700? Is it worth the upgrade? I like my 2600 refurb fine, and do not believe I would use anymore of the new features available on the new receivers. I purchased the 2600 just to use until i find something that really makes a difference. Thanks for any replies.
If you don't need the networking and other features, stick with the 2600. It has a stronger amp section, more continuous power with all channels driven vs the newer models with digital power supplies that cannot make their rated power with all channels driven.
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post #193 of 802 Old 10-15-2013, 04:08 PM
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I have 6 ohm speakers which should increase the wattage a bit. Does anybody know how much RMS power per channel with 5 channels driven does the 2700 make 8 ohm or 6 ohm?
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post #194 of 802 Old 10-15-2013, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo72 View Post

I have 6 ohm speakers which should increase the wattage a bit. Does anybody know how much RMS power per channel with 5 channels driven does the 2700 make 8 ohm or 6 ohm?

40W x 5 into 6/8 Ohms......

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
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post #195 of 802 Old 10-15-2013, 06:21 PM
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Is this definite or just a guess?
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post #196 of 802 Old 10-15-2013, 06:34 PM
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I have used my AVR1700 to drive 3 JBL's that are 88db and Klipsch as surrounds. Sounds as good as my 200 watt XPA-5 amp.
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post #197 of 802 Old 10-15-2013, 07:10 PM
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Corchid, Thank you for your input. I have heard that the new receivers sound great, but I wanted to get an opinion before I bought new. The refurb 2600 sounds as good as my avr635 did (well almost). I had heard that the new digital supplies could not generate enough current to do the same job as the old supplies. Thanks again.
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post #198 of 802 Old 10-15-2013, 07:24 PM
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I've had my 2700 for a few months. Love it, love it, love it. Very easy to set up and sounds superb. I was just wondering the true specs (wattage per channel). I do not need extra wattage. It is loud enough, plus doesn't distort the sound when turned up loud. HK for life. Given up on pio and yamaha.
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post #199 of 802 Old 10-15-2013, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo72 View Post

Is this definite or just a guess?

Do the math...
Power output is limited by power supply voltage/current capability...
Rated power is 200W total into 2 channels driven into 8 Ohms.
Divide the 200W by 5 channels, equals 40W per channel into 8 Ohms.
Divide the 200W by 7 channels, equals 28W per channel into 8 Ohms.

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
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post #200 of 802 Old 10-16-2013, 05:43 AM
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The HK 2700 is rated at 105W x 2 = 210W Total. . Divide 210 by 5 and you get 42W x 5. But in a movie when are the surround channels outputting continuous sound as are the fronts?. So in reality you get more wattage than the numbers suggest from the front stage (my guess). Plus HK amps don't distort at higher volumes as cheaper ones. I'm using the new JBL studio 5 series speakers which are 6 ohms, this should increase the wattage a bit.
The reason I ask is that the HK 3650 was listed at 110W x 2 = 220W total. Divide 220 by 5 and you get 44W x 5. But the 3600 was reviewed by Home Theatre magazine and it rated at 70.4W x 5 at 0.1% and 85.8W x 5 at 1% distortion. So I thing that the HK 2700 outputs more than what the calculations suggest, plus HK rates their amps at 0.07% distortion.
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post #201 of 802 Old 10-16-2013, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo72 View Post

The HK 2700 is rated at 105W x 2 = 210W Total. . Divide 210 by 5 and you get 42W x 5. But in a movie when are the surround channels outputting continuous sound as are the fronts?. So in reality you get more wattage than the numbers suggest from the front stage (my guess). Plus HK amps don't distort at higher volumes as cheaper ones. I'm using the new JBL studio 5 series speakers which are 6 ohms, this should increase the wattage a bit.
The reason I ask is that the HK 3650 was listed at 110W x 2 = 220W total. Divide 220 by 5 and you get 44W x 5. But the 3600 was reviewed by Home Theatre magazine and it rated at 70.4W x 5 at 0.1% and 85.8W x 5 at 1% distortion. So I thing that the HK 2700 outputs more than what the calculations suggest, plus HK rates their amps at 0.07% distortion.

As I have mentioned multiple times HK has different specs, depending upon where you look...rolleyes.gif
Their website shows 100W x 2 for the 2700.. wink.gif
HK has traditionally rated their AVRs with ALL channels driven not 2... Also now since their marketing/product decisions are made in China, they use 1kHz rather the full bandwidth of 20Hz-20kHz, both of these changes will increase their published output power spec.

Bottom line, HK builds a solid AVR...
However, comparing products don't buy it on just specs as they are getting stretched to meet the competition..

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
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post #202 of 802 Old 10-16-2013, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andriy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by corchid View Post

H/K avr's do not decode DSD so you have to set your blu ray to output multi channel pcm and it will work just fine. I have an avr3600 and Sony BDP-S5100 and SACD's sound awesome!! The avr outputs the sound as multi channel pcm at 176.4khz.

Thank you very much. As long as it can play them I'm alright. My current Yamaha decodes DSD to 88KHz, so I actually prefer decoding to 176KHz in Sony S570. My 3700 should arrive on Tue, I'll give it a spin.

curious what yamaha you have that decodes DSD? im considering purchasing the hk 2700 (or yamaha rx-s600 slim, or marantz avr 1604) and already have the sony bdp s5100. just trying to figure out my best options for a new AVR... any thoughts will be appreciated!

Samsung PN51F8500. Marantz SR5008. Oppo BDP 103D. Sony BDP S5100. EMP Tek E55TIB LR, E5CIB, E55WIB. Sennheiser Momentum. Sennheiser 598.
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post #203 of 802 Old 10-16-2013, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

curious what yamaha you have that decodes DSD? im considering purchasing the hk 2700 (or yamaha rx-s600 slim, or marantz avr 1604) and already have the sony bdp s5100. just trying to figure out my best options for a new AVR... any thoughts will be appreciated!
I wouldn't worry too much about decoding DSD through the receiver. Many of them that are able to do that use a DSD direct path that will not allow bass management and distance compensation when the avr is decoding the DSD signal. The blu ray can decode the signal and feed it to the avr in multi channel form and the avr can apply the same bass management and distance compensation as other formats without loss in sound quality. Of the three receivers you mentioned, the Harman will have the most power and the Harman sound everyone craves. The Yamaha and Marantz slim line receivers are ok but won't have the current and power of the H/K. Hope this helps.
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post #204 of 802 Old 10-16-2013, 05:31 PM
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thank you corchid! your response helps me tremendously. im pretty certain i will soon be a new member of the HK club!
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post #205 of 802 Old 10-16-2013, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Do the math...
Power output is limited by power supply voltage/current capability...
Rated power is 200W total into 2 channels driven into 8 Ohms.
Divide the 200W by 5 channels, equals 40W per channel into 8 Ohms.
Divide the 200W by 7 channels, equals 28W per channel into 8 Ohms.

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
Ummm...M Code I understand the logic concerning your impression of output power of avr's....they are limited by their power supply....BUT the output transistors themselves can limit power output, so an avr that may be able to output let's say 220 watts into 8 ohms with 2 channels can output more than 220 watts total into all channels driven. If the avr tests on a bench to output 70 watts per channel in that senario would put total output at 490 watts with 7 channels driven would disprove your hypothesis about 2 channel power vs all channels driven. I can prove links to several test bench articles if you would like...
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post #206 of 802 Old 10-16-2013, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corchid View Post

Ummm...M Code I understand the logic concerning your impression of output power of avr's....they are limited by their power supply....BUT the output transistors themselves can limit power output, so an avr that may be able to output let's say 220 watts into 8 ohms with 2 channels can output more than 220 watts total into all channels driven. If the avr tests on a bench to output 70 watts per channel in that senario would put total output at 490 watts with 7 channels driven would disprove your hypothesis about 2 channel power vs all channels driven. I can prove links to several test bench articles if you would like...

The output transistors (1 pair) for each channel of amplification are capable of outputting 100W per channel or 700W total for 7 channels...
And the limiting factor is the power supply not the output transistors.....
Regarding ALL channels driven part, the traditional procedure for measuring output power was for each channel to be driven to rated output power according to the original FTC amplifier statue.....
However in todays mass market driven by Panasonic, Bose, Sony they have revised the ALL channels driven from rated output power to 1/8th power output, so instead of each channel putting out 100W it puts out 12.5W... Note that none of the magazines or test labs drive ALL channels to rated output power, the advertising department now decides the published power output specs and in many, many instances they are never even verified.... The big box sellers like Best Buy, Amazon, Walmart largely influence what power output specs are published..

Since HK was one of our clients for several years, we were directly involved with the design/development/validation/delivery of the mentioned AVRs and we actually have the original electrical measurements done by the design team from prototype to mass production. So we know exactly what their output capabilities are....rolleyes.gif
Note that HK is actually more conservative then certain other AVR brands, but due to recession and increased sales pressure from the big box sellers they too have begun to play the game of stretched, output power specs..

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
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post #207 of 802 Old 10-17-2013, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

curious what yamaha you have that decodes DSD? im considering purchasing the hk 2700 (or yamaha rx-s600 slim, or marantz avr 1604) and already have the sony bdp s5100. just trying to figure out my best options for a new AVR... any thoughts will be appreciated!

That was HTR6063 but as I said I actually preferred when Sony player converted DSD to PCM.
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post #208 of 802 Old 10-17-2013, 09:39 AM
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What size power capacitors does the HK 2700 use? I'm guess they must be quite large as it takes about 5 seconds for the light to turn off on the front when the rear switch is turned off.
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post #209 of 802 Old 10-18-2013, 09:14 AM
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Got my 3700 couple of days ago. So far so good, sound is much more pleasing than my old Yamaha HTR6063 which sounded "dry" in comparison.
HK is way more bassy and need different LFE treatments for music and movies. I have setup separate sources connected to the same inputs for BD Movies and Music (HDMI1), Media Movies and Music (HDMI4) so that surround modes and LFE levels can be setup once. Then, just by switching source you get appropriate sound treatment depending on the material.

SACD playback is only via PCM mutichannel. Sony BDP converts DSD to PCM 176/24 and HK accepts this signal.
While manual doesn't mention this, 192/24 (I tested only stereo) is also acceptable via HDMI. I use WDTV to play HD FLACs and send them over HDMI to receiver.
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post #210 of 802 Old 10-18-2013, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Do the math...
Power output is limited by power supply voltage/current capability...
Rated power is 200W total into 2 channels driven into 8 Ohms.
Divide the 200W by 5 channels, equals 40W per channel into 8 Ohms.
Divide the 200W by 7 channels, equals 28W per channel into 8 Ohms.

Just my $0.05... 👍😉

M Code is correct for the 5 channel assessment, according to the measurements of a German magazine.
I downloaded the paid pdf versions of their tests and am posting here the results.

Basically the AVR-370 (same as 3700) measures 44W on 5 ch and 42W on 7 ch at 6 ohm.
The surprise is the AVR-270 which measures almost the same: 41W on 5 channels 8 ohm.
It is actually not a surprise for who, like me, owned both: I did not notice any power difference in switching from the 2700 to the 3700 and they sounded absolutely identical.


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