Pioneer Class D3 Amplification- New Elite line - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 01-14-2013, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have any experience with Pioneer's latest Elite line? I have read through some of the forums related to its over-all performance on calibration, video processing, AirPlay, etc...(mostly very good reviews) but I am curious about the Amp itself.

I have never heard the old Class D amplifier but I have read a little about it. My understanding thus far is Pioneer improved it greatly and while there are not too many consistent complaints, I rest a little uneasy before making the purchase.

I have 2 large standing floor speakers by Digital Research (whom I know nothing about, they have no website) but they sound incredible and have worked flawlessly for 9 years with a standard A/B amp.

Quick Specs-
Bass Reflex enclosure
4 drivers, 3-way
150W RMS
Sensitivity 91db
10-400w power range
4-8 ohms Nominal Impedance.
(I do plan to bi-wire it into the rear channels)


Any experience with these D3 amps and similar speakers would be much appreciated. Too warm, poor range, - preference for the standard class of amp over the D....etc....


Thanks
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post #2 of 10 Old 01-14-2013, 11:48 AM
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There are several AVR-specific threads on e.g. the Pioneer SC-67/68 with lots of feedback.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3 of 10 Old 01-14-2013, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I may have missed the specific ones I was looking for. I will check again
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post #4 of 10 Old 01-14-2013, 01:24 PM
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I own both the 1st Ice amp'd receiver Pioneer came out with, the ultra-flagship SC-09TX and the new SC-68 and both are excellent amps. I've been using their class D receivers for almost 5 years now and have no regrets with either one.

the new D3 design is not Icepower - it's a chip amp design from International Rectifier and has some theoretical advantages over the Ice amps: much simpler circuitry & no feedback loop needed to maintain low distortion across the freq band. class D amps have a switching frequency for the power supply that tells it how often to supply power pulses. in the Ice amp design, the switching freq was 50-60 kHz while the new D3 design is 10 times that, about 500 Khz so on paper the switching freq is even further away from audible range. in all class D amps the switching freq is removed by elaborate filtering and this is where the simpler design of D3 has an advantage over Icepower.

in any case, both have excellent sound quality, tight bass, can reproduce large swings in dynamic peaks and produce equal power to 5 channels at once without a lot of sagging, as opposed to some receivers with smaller power supplies that might deliver rated power in 2 channels but will really fall off when trying to drive 5 & 7 channels simultaneously.

and both amp designs are VERY capable of driving demanding low efficiency speakers (mine are 85 db efficient & need lots of power to sound their best, Magnepans) and lower than 8 ohm speakers. Pioneer finally gave a 4 ohm rating to their class D amps in last year's model.

go take a listen, and be aware that in comparing Pioneer to a Denon for example, the vast majority of any difference you may hear will not be due to the amps but to how the 2 companies room correction EQ works. Pioneer uses its own system, MCACC, and Denon licenses Audyssey.

and yes, there is an SC-68 & 67 thread which I started. come on over smile.gif

btw- Home Theater Mag has reviewed every generation of SC models, including the first one, the SC-09, last year's D3 SC-57 and the new SC-68. they have nothing but praise for every one. you might want to check them out.

Steve
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post #5 of 10 Old 01-14-2013, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Steve- I certainly did check them out and they are pretty awesome. I will check out your other threads as well but I think I am on board with either the SC-65, 67 or 68- depending on cash flow.
I just wish AirPlay would stream movies and allow mirroring...I guess not everything is perfect.
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post #6 of 10 Old 01-14-2013, 07:43 PM
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There is no need to bi wire or bi amp your mains. There are no benefits to doing either of them.
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post #7 of 10 Old 01-14-2013, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm...ok, my understanding is that by bi-amping the L/R speakers your are powering the drivers from different amps which yields superior sound by taking stress off a single amplifier. (Bi-wiring, just different channels). Even the manual says so, I believe.

I b-wired my last set and I thought maybe the only difference was that they were louder or a little more sensitive.

That said, I am here to learn! Why is there no value in it?
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post #8 of 10 Old 01-14-2013, 08:39 PM
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In order to truly bi amp a speaker you need to take it apart and remove the crossover network. You also need to design external crossovers and then connect each tweeter and driver to an amplifier. This is complicated. The kind of bi amping you are talking about is mostly a gimmick by AVR manufactures. When you bi amp your mains like you explained you really don't double the power by using the rear channels. It doesn't work that way.
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post #9 of 10 Old 01-14-2013, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, thanks. Yes, I just removed the external cross over and bi-wired it. Maybe that's why the improvement seemed so minimal. I don't have another amp to truly bi-amp anyway.
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post #10 of 10 Old 01-14-2013, 10:47 PM
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The cheapest Pioneer receivers with D3 amp is the Sc-1222. I have to say is awesome! I also own a Denon 3311ci, and this 1222 is better. Audio is so clear; and more detailed. Also more powerful. This 1222 replaces my denon on my ht room. Originally that was not the purpose. I bought it for living room but after performing various tests i decided to move it to my dedicated ht room.
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