AVR with video processing as good or better than DVDO Edge Green: $600 or less? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 01-14-2013, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I would like to clean up cable box HD and SD signal as best as possible. I understand a video processor is the way to go...

I was looking at the DVDO Edge Green, but now know many AVR's have the same or better video processing than does the Edge and therefore, that I might get more bang for my buck if I get a single AVR.

Any direction would be very helpful. I'd really like to keep the AVR less than $600 USD.

Thanks!

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post #2 of 17 Old 01-14-2013, 06:12 PM
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I think most manufacturers left Anchor Bay/DVDO when Silicon Image bought them out in 2011. DVDO was simply a brand of Anchor Bay, so you will find Anchor Bay chips in those units. Not much has been done with the chips since they were bought out. Most have switched to Marvell QDeo for their video processors in AVRs. Not sure if Marvell Qdeo is better than the Anchor Bat ABT 2010/2015 but most use Qdeo now since it supports 4k upscaling.

I'll let you do the research on the Anchor Bay ABT1030, ABT2010, and ABT2015 against the Marvell 88DE2710 and 88DE2750. I really can't tell you which Marvell Qdeo chip is being used in the different receivers but the 88DE2750 is the one that supports 4x upscaling, so that would be used in receivers with 4k upscaling. Denon's xx11 and xx12 probably use the older 88DE2710.

A refurbished Denon AVR-2313ci with the Marvell 88DE2750 ( Qdeo Kyoto-g2 ?? ) from Accessories4less will set you back $600.

HD-DVD = 94
Blu-Ray = 120 ( 24 Warner red2blu )
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post #3 of 17 Old 01-14-2013, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. Is there any consensus about what AVR chipset or make generally supports the best video processing insofar as mosquito noise, inporving compressed signal, etc. is concerned?

I'm really, really lost as most of the focus of the AVR topics appears to be audio quality.

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post #4 of 17 Old 01-14-2013, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videopotus View Post

Thanks. Is there any consensus about what AVR chipset or make generally supports the best video processing insofar as mosquito noise, inporving compressed signal, etc. is concerned?

I'm really, really lost as most of the focus of the AVR topics appears to be audio quality.

I'm still extremely happy with my 5-year-old AVR, which has a video processor developed by Silicon Optix/Teranex ( remember Reon HQV and Realta? ), but we are talking about a professional video chipset in a $5000 AVR. Silicon Optix was busted up and sold off in 2008/2009 which allowed Anchor Bay to grab a foothold in the AVR market. I have an Oppo BDP-103, which has the 88DE2750 Qdeo Kyoto-g2, and my AVR does a better job upconverting DVD and compressed video, like DivX, Xvid, h.263, h.264, etc. You'd probably be happy with the $500 Oppo which you can use to upconvert the video and use as a basic preamp.

HD-DVD = 94
Blu-Ray = 120 ( 24 Warner red2blu )
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post #5 of 17 Old 01-14-2013, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

Denon AVR-2313ci with the Marvell 88DE2750

A Denon AVR with Marvell chip, not AFAIK.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #6 of 17 Old 01-14-2013, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

. You'd probably be happy with the $500 Oppo which you can use to upconvert the video and use as a basic preamp.

Does this mean I could use the Oppo as my only AVR, or would I need a full AVR for audio/etc? Still quite confused.

Similarly, are you saying I could run my cable box into the Oppo via the HDMI in and have it do video processing or is the Oppo limited to DVD/Blu Ray content?

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post #7 of 17 Old 01-14-2013, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

A Denon AVR with Marvell chip, not AFAIK.

Do you have a suggestion? I'm brand agnostic.

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post #8 of 17 Old 01-15-2013, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videopotus View Post

I would like to clean up cable box HD and SD signal as best as possible. I understand a video processor is the way to go...

I was looking at the DVDO Edge Green, but now know many AVR's have the same or better video processing than does the Edge and therefore, that I might get more bang for my buck if I get a single AVR.

Any direction would be very helpful. I'd really like to keep the AVR less than $600 USD.

Thanks!

Check out onkyo 8 series and higher. though the 818 does appear to have a 24p bug so be careful if you choose that particular unit.

I have an 809 and the video processing features are great. It has a ton of options to clean up poor source material. It uses HQV Vida VHD1900 Video Processor and Marvell Qdeo Video Chip for 4K Upscaling and Processing.

Starting on page 55 of the owners manual are the details of all the different video processing features the 809 can do.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #9 of 17 Old 01-15-2013, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videopotus View Post

Do you have a suggestion? I'm brand agnostic.

I have the Edge, Onkyo 818, Denon 3312, Arcam AVR600 and Pioneer Kuro.

The Kuro display has MORE NR options (4 different types) than the rest.

If NR is your primary aim, then you're not going to find any satisfactory solutions esp. in AVRs at your budget.

The problem with NR is there can be more than one type of noise in any frame it's very hard to get it right, either too little or too much and details are lost and faces become waxy.

There is much more to vp than scaling and NR. Getting it right in all the departments like gamma, colour temp., black levels and others all contribute to an excellent picture. The vp options in an AVR are only a subset of a dedicated vp. There's not much in the Denon and more in the Onkyo but nothing that the Edge and Kuro don't have together.

Until the 24p bug has been resolved stay away from any Onkyo AVRs because it's possible it's present in other models. If you're keen to try the Marvell then Pioneer AVRs have them but I've not used any.

I've seen your other thread in vp forum and agree with the comment that you should try your new TV first before rushing into anything.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #10 of 17 Old 01-15-2013, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

Check out onkyo 8 series and higher. though the 818 does appear to have a 24p bug so be careful if you choose that particular unit.

I have an 809 and the video processing features are great. It has a ton of options to clean up poor source material. It uses HQV Vida VHD1900 Video Processor and Marvell Qdeo Video Chip for 4K Upscaling and Processing.

Starting on page 55 of the owners manual are the details of all the different video processing features the 809 can do.

Does your 809 have a 24p problem? Do you have any other video processing on your system?

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post #11 of 17 Old 01-15-2013, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

I have the Edge, Onkyo 818, Denon 3312, Arcam AVR600 and Pioneer Kuro.

Until the 24p bug has been resolved stay away from any Onkyo AVRs because it's possible it's present in other models. If you're keen to try the Marvell then Pioneer AVRs have them but I've not used any.

I've seen your other thread in vp forum and agree with the comment that you should try your new TV first before rushing into anything.

I appreciate your (and everyone's comments) about not rushing in and buying anything until I see how the TV performs. I'd like to get a leg up though on understanding what I might need/want.

Excuse my ignorance, do you have the Edge, Oynko 818, Denon 3312, Arcam AVR600 on the SAME system or on 4 separate systems? What purpose does each serve if on the same system?!

Given that you have the 818, I'm a bit confused about your recommendation to stay away from the Oynko AVRs. Would you stay away from all Oynko AVRs or just the 818---which as an aside is more than I'd like to spend. Any thoughts on the 809?

Lastly, as you said "The vp options in an AVR are only a subset of a dedicated vp," given that my primary interest is in improving image quality, is there is a dedicated VP in the ~$500 range you'd suggest I consider down the road?

Jevans64 had suggested the Oppo BDP-103 but from my very lay evaluation, I could not tell if the video processing benefits it provides are limited to DVD/Blu Ray playback. Similarly, as I'm (for now) going to get a simple audio set up, probably the Sony HT-CT150, would the Oppo serve dual needs as a BluRay player and VP? Would this be a bad idea?

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post #12 of 17 Old 01-15-2013, 07:06 PM
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I have one Edge and Kuro in one room and another Edge, another Kuro and the above AVRs in the HT room. The Denon was bought after Arcam to try out Audyssey MultEQ XT, it's not hooked up any more. Then came the Onkyo to try out Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and it's used now as a pre-amp to the Arcam. So these are all for audio purpose.

The Edge separates the incoming HDMI feed and outputs video separately to TV and audio to receiver thereby bypassing receiver for video. I like the Edge because of its price (of course Lumagen is better) and there're many functions I find handy to have, like info display, changing aspect ratios quickly etc, apart from scaling.

Because you want to buy an AVR to use its vp specifically, then it's not good idea to use Onkyo as explained above. It's OK to use Onkyo for audio when hooked up with a separate vp like I do. In the 818 thread there is some uncertainty if other Onkyo AVRs also have this bug. Granted, some see the effects of the 24p bug (the slight judder) and some don't but as a matter of principle I cannot recommend it. If you still want it knowing this then it's up to you. If you're thinking of a simple audio set-up then an AVR with complex functions is probably overkill.

I'm afraid the Edge is the cheapest. The older DVDOs can be had for less but again they aren't particularly good for NR. No single vp is good at everything. There might be old units good at NR - ask again in the vp forum. If you're building a HT from scratch you should buy the best TV you can afford now. It's no good buying a crappy TV and hope anything upstream can sort out any shortcomings (it can't always). Think of a dedicated vp as a luxury item, the icing on the cake. Likewise don't pick an AVR based primarily on its video chip, but consider the whole thing, esp. audio.

I don't have Oppo but you can ask in Oppo threads and download the manuals. You can also download manuals for various vps to have an idea of their functions.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #13 of 17 Old 01-15-2013, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

A Denon AVR with Marvell chip, not AFAIK.

My bad. You're right. I think the Denon 2313ci use the Analog Devices ADV7619. Not sure how it stacks up against the others but I can see the logic of using the same silicon designer as the main SHARC processors.

HD-DVD = 94
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post #14 of 17 Old 01-15-2013, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by videopotus View Post

Does this mean I could use the Oppo as my only AVR, or would I need a full AVR for audio/etc? Still quite confused.

Similarly, are you saying I could run my cable box into the Oppo via the HDMI in and have it do video processing or is the Oppo limited to DVD/Blu Ray content?

Not sure how far along Oppo is on that but you would definitely need an amp to drive your speakers, unless they were all powered monitors. I know they are trying to use the analog outs as preamp outs. Not sure how far they can take it with all the limitations the studios have placed on the transmission of HD audio over non copy protected connections. Might have the same limitations as S/PDIF and TosLink.

HD-DVD = 94
Blu-Ray = 120 ( 24 Warner red2blu )
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post #15 of 17 Old 01-16-2013, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videopotus View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

Check out onkyo 8 series and higher. though the 818 does appear to have a 24p bug so be careful if you choose that particular unit.

I have an 809 and the video processing features are great. It has a ton of options to clean up poor source material. It uses HQV Vida VHD1900 Video Processor and Marvell Qdeo Video Chip for 4K Upscaling and Processing.

Starting on page 55 of the owners manual are the details of all the different video processing features the 809 can do.

Does your 809 have a 24p problem? Do you have any other video processing on your system?

I have not noticed the 24p bug using my 809 and I am not aware of other onkyo models besides the 818 that are confirmed to have the bug.

The only other video processing I have is my denon 1611 blu-ray player. I dont use the processing features on it though because the 809 processing performs better with my mits dlp display.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #16 of 17 Old 01-16-2013, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for the advice.

Based on reviews here and elsewhere, I ended up buying the Oppo BDP-103. I needed a 3d blu ray player anyway so the Oppo made sense given I can also use it as a video pre-processor.

I think now I'm looking for an Audio amp that has 3d pass through? I plan to use the Oppo as a pre-processor and run my cable through the Oppo HDMI in. Then I would run the HDMI 1 to the TV and HDMI 2 to the audio amp.

Does that seem like a good idea/correct thinking? If this does work, am I correct in thinking that any decent amp work for me now since I'd be using it for audio processing only?

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post #17 of 17 Old 01-17-2013, 03:28 AM
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If you send HDMI audio from player and want audio processing you still need to use an AV receiver (an 'amp' strictly refers to a power amp which works in analogue). The Oppo's 'pre-amp' is nothing more than a digital volume control so you need a proper processor to do other things. If you send HDMI video from player to TV you don't need your AVR to pass video at all - that's the whole idea of splitting up A and V. There are a few audio only MCH pre-amp processors, none within your budget.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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