SC-67 Analog In (CD) getting sent to zone 4 via HDMI - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Just bought SC-67 mainly for the zone 4 hdmi functionality but sadly can't route a analog signal (external sirius/xm receiver) to zone 4 over HDMI.

If i connect the xm receiver to the Video input it doesn't seem to go to zone 4 either.

Can you only pass hdmi signals to the zone 4?

Anyone know if its possible?

Regards,
Dario
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post #2 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 05:04 PM
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It's HDMI audio only.
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post #3 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 05:09 PM
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As is also the case with the Denon and Marantz models with Zone 2 or 4 (HDMI) monitor outputs .... HDMI sources only.

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post #4 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 05:15 PM
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add my post - zone 4 is for the dedicated zone 4 HDMI output only. use zone 1 or 2 for analog.
jd is correct, the top Denon & Onkyo models work the same way.

Dario, suggest you re-read the SC-68/67 manual on multizone setup & connections.

Steve
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post #5 of 10 Old 01-18-2013, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone,

That's a let down. I already spend time running HDMI cable to the other zone and installing wall plates. Guess i'll have to rethink my layout and consider running a full gambit of cables now.

Seems like all manufactures still like to make multi zone installations complicated...

To bad they don't have optical/digital outputs for zone 2 and zone 3.

I've read the manual many times and just find it hard to believe that it can convert composite and component video to HDMI but can't take 2 channel analog sound and send it to zone 4 via HDMI.

Also just a heads up to anyone with cable PVR that is trying to send it to zone 4 via HDMI you have a pretty good chance of running into HDCP issues.

this flow path doesn't work : Motorola PVR ---> SC-67 --> HDMI to ethernet ---> VSX-40 ---> Samsung TV
this flow path does work: Motorola PVR ---> SC-67 --> HDMI to ethernet ---> Samsung TV
Other sources work fine : Playstation or apple tv ---> SC-67 --> HDMI to ethernet ---> VSX-40 ---> Samsung TV

Thanks
Dario
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post #6 of 10 Old 01-18-2013, 04:07 AM
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^^
where do I begin...
I understand your frustration but...

1. NO receiver in the last 10 years that I know of, certainly none from the big names Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer, Sony, etc has had the ability to send digital audio to multizones. When they had multiple digital outputs, you could send one to one room and another to a 2nd room but that is not what's meant by true multizone, where you can have 2 different sources playing at same time going to different rooms. I've owned 4 Pioneer Elite receivers over past 8-9 yrs with MSRPs of $4500 - 7000, and none of them did what you are complaining about. and during that time I downloaded & read thru all the major competitive models from Denon, Yamaha, etc to know how they compared.

2. despite your complaints, be lucky that you have a 2nd & independent HDMI zone at all. this past summer was the 1st time this feature appeared in ANY receiver in the world! and Pioneer was the 1st out with it. so your whining about not being able to do what you want is unwarranted.

3. receivers are becoming a swiss army knife of features but they don't replace customized multiple room installations as what you are trying to do. there are many external matrix switchers for HDMI, component video, std video, analog & digital audio available from suppliers like HDTVSupply, Monoprice, Ram Electronics to name a few that can do the things you'd like to do.

4. you have no one to blame but yourself for not doing your homework & research ahead of time before you decided to buy the receiver, chop holes in walls and lay cable! that's backwards & your own fault. sorry, but with multiple complaint posts of yours showing up about various things you don't like...I call it as I see it.

5. forum etiquette....instead of multiple posts about one issue after another, try posting your comments in the owner's thread. all of the common, popular models from each mfg have "owner's" threads so all relevant posts about that model can be grouped together for convenience to members posting questions, answers, comments, suggestions and general advice to people who own it, potentially thinking of buying it, people with problems, etc. there is one for the SC-68/67 which I started and which has had recent posts from last night...surely you couldn't have missed it wink.gif

finally, now that my rant is about over, I'll see if I can sort out some of your problems and give you some help if I can. and that's predicated on you not deciding to take it out on me for your own mistakes in plunging in before you knew how to make it work.

this is NOT a lame receiver. Pioneer is considered 1 of the top 3 companies in HT receivers, an opinion shared by many enthusiasts & AV reviewers. the top 3 companies are Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer. And the bigger brother of yours, the SC-68, has been reviewed by several publications & enthusiast sites, like Home Theater Magazine, and given top ratings.

Don't blame Pioneer or the receiver because it doesn't do what you thought it should do. from your posts, none of them can.

It's not Pioneer's fault you didn't understand the manual before you installed cables & wall plates. you could easily have posted questions here ahead of time & gotten help on how best to do your rooms from people who 1) know their stuff & 2) are freely willing to offer advice because they enjoy the hobby.

peace & I'll read thru your multiple posts & see if I can help unravel some of your issues.

Steve
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post #7 of 10 Old 01-18-2013, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dario1000 View Post

Tfind it hard to believe that it can convert composite and component video to HDMI but can't take 2 channel analog sound and send it to zone 4 via HDMI.

no receiver or processor on the planet does that or ever has done it, AFAIK

there are external boxes which you can buy that will remove the HDCP encryption so that the HDMI signal can be converted to analog video, 7.1 analog audio & 2 ch digital audio but not the other way around.

crossconverting all the forms of analog video to HDMI is handled by the video processor chip, in this case a Marvell QDEO processor. but there is no provision nor ever has been one in any receiver made that will do the same with digital/analog audio. 7.1 analog needs 7 analog>digital converters and since several years ago, all manufacturers have removed 7 ch ADC's from receivers for cost reasons, plus less need for using multichannel analog audio inputs. they only keep 2 ch ADC's in the receivers for 2 ch "CD" type analog audio not for multizone convenience but for the sole purpose of being able to add the room correction & surround processing to 2 ch sources.

receivers have an HDMI receiver chipset followed by an HDMI transmitter chipset, HDCP encryption is maintained across the signal chain, and not removed at any step. that's why they don't do what you'd like. analog video can be added if the video processor is put into the signal chain (Video Converter On) and gets HDCP encrypted I think at the transmitter stage. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that adding the extra conversion of digital & analog not only adds to the cost for a niche feature but may be prohibited by the licensing the chipset mfg and the CE company has to agree to.

what you seek may be something like these:

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/rgbrlhd.html#axzz2IKTCLqag
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/at-comp-hdmin.html#axzz2IKTCLqag

they have a whole potload of conversion & switching devices that could do exactly what you'd like in your home.

you could take the SC-67 Zone 4 HDMI out, go into a matrix switcher. take converted audio from a converter, add it to the switcher and send to cheap basic HDMI receivers for their amps in as many rooms as you'd like depending on whether the switcher is 2x2, 4x4, 8x8, etc.

or you can give up 9 ch in the main room & select one of the B speaker, zone 2 options, with a Niles Audio type distribution speaker selector that allows more than 1 pair playing at same time.

I'm sure there are a number of options for distributed a/v that will work with the receiver if you do the homework or pay for an installer's advice.

if you are using ethernet for HDMI, am I right that you're using baluns on each end? there are many forum members, ccotenj comes to mind, who have done this with more than 1 wiring closet & a Denon 4311 which has no HDMI 2nd zone feature. I have not smile.gif you could try PMing him or bfreedma, the other option is create a new post asking for specific help in this area, not specific to Pioneer but a general post in this and maybe one of the home theater design sub-forums.

Steve
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post #8 of 10 Old 01-18-2013, 06:43 AM
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wait for this and you might be able to do about anything

http://hometoys.com/news/2013/01/11/hdbaset-alliance-shows-the-future-of-connected-home-entertainment-at-ces-2013/20000845

it's coming but not here yet.

Steve
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post #9 of 10 Old 01-18-2013, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

no receiver or processor on the planet does that or ever has done it, AFAIK

No receiver I know can do it to a zone HDMI out, but I found out recently Onkyo receivers actually convert analogue audio to HDMI audio in the main zone when they're configured to output HDMI audio. I assume this only works for stereo analogue sources.
Quote:
receivers have an HDMI receiver chipset followed by an HDMI transmitter chipset, HDCP encryption is maintained across the signal chain, and not removed at any step. that's why they don't do what you'd like. analog video can be added if the video processor is put into the signal chain (Video Converter On) and gets HDCP encrypted I think at the transmitter stage.

The encrypted video does get decrypted and encrypted otherwise the video processor wouldn't be able to do anything with it. Similarily, the audio obviously needs to be decypted for the receiver to send it to the speakers. Video and audio get encrypted seperately so those Onkyo receivers wouldn't have to encrypt the audio from an unprotected analogue source.
Quote:
I don't know for sure, but I suspect that adding the extra conversion of digital & analog not only adds to the cost for a niche feature but may be prohibited by the licensing the chipset mfg and the CE company has to agree to.

For the main zone HDMI output it shouldn't be too hard, but it's not actually that useful so it doesn't surprise most manufactures don't bother. For an independent zone HDMI out it would require a second set of ADCs plus more complicated switching in the digital audio path. In particular supportting analogue audio from a zone 4 HDMI output probably wouldn't be practical because it would require a four zone analogue audio switch, which I don't think there are off-the-shelf solutions for.
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post #10 of 10 Old 01-18-2013, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I read the manual regarding the multi zone functionality prior to purchasing the receiver and its poorly written and non descriptive to the point of being misleading (white lies).

They have nice diagrams showing all analog video sources getting up converted/upscaled to HDMI on page 29 but sadly they didn't provide a similar diagram for audio. Also they only include the main HDMI out (zone 1) but the zone 4 HDMI output was not referenced.

I'm really interested to see if Component video input on the receiver will get passed to zone 4 over HDMI. Will try it out and post else where.

No were in the manual does it specifically say Zone 4 ONLY outputs the HDMI video and audio signals from these sources. On page 37 they have little table highlighting the sources that can be sent to each zone but don't specific what input types for those sources will be sent. I'm interested to find out. I've i just connect the rca audio into the video source will it pass that to zone 4 if selected, its already converting it to digital to works its magic so the ADC is there.

On Page 39 they had to opportunity to describe Zone 4 HDMI output better as well but didn't, instead they just have a overly simplified "connection"diagram.

Yes ss9001 i should have looked into it more before committing to only running a single HDMI run. I figured they wouldn't give you multizone hdmi without up scaling and conversion the source prior to sending my mistake.

Your suggestion of using matrix switchers and what not is not for me. I like being able to control what source i'm watching in zone 4 from my phone using IControlAV2012 (one of the main reasons i bought the pioneer sc-67 and vsx-60). I have no desire to toggle switches. I'm passed that point in my home automation lifecycle.

As a computer engineering and application Architect that believes he has a nack for making user friendly and intuitive solution I really can see room for improvement in the AVR world. The elite line is on the right track. I'll start other threads regarding all the other "some what successful attempts at being a slick and user friendly AVR" in the SC-67 thread.

Off to shot my bow and arrow but looking forward to playing around with my SC-67 and VSX-60 this weekend.

Dario
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