Connecting Marantz DV7001 to Denon AVC-A1SE amp for DVD-Audio & SACD playback. Confusion! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 01-19-2013, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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These are both old machines, but sound great. I just bought the Marantz on eBay to play my DVD-Audios and so I can buy some SACD discs.

It's has digital optical out, but there's a note in the manual saying "If you listen to multichannel DVD-Audio through one of the digital outputs, it will be down mixed to stereo. Also, high sampling rate DVD-Audio (192HKz or 176.4HKz) will be down sampled to 96, 88.2, 48 or 44 KHz, depending on the disc. Multi channel and high sampling rate DVD-Audio are only available through the analog outputs. All DVD-Audio and SACD audio are output only through the analog outputs."

When attached via digital optical out, I can definitely hear a surround mix that sounds pretty good when playing DVD-Audios, which seems to contradict the note above.

I've only attached the analog cables using inferior phono cables for the moment, but there's a confusing issue with the outputs on the DV7001 player and the inputs on the Denon.

The DV7001 outputs have left and right phono outputs for 'front' and 'surround', but only one phono output for 'subwoofer' and 'center'.

There are two phono inputs on the Denon am for each of these, split into 'front', 'center', 'surround' and 'effects' (I assumed that 'effects' is for the 'subwoofer' input).

So if there's only one phono output and two inputs, shoud I have a special cable that goes from single to double phono, or do I only need ot use one input.

This is how it is setup at the moment and the subwoofer doesn't seem to be working. The sound is far worse/woolier than with the Digital optical output as well.

Any suggestions as to how to connect these two pieces of kit to extract the full quality sound from DVD-Audio would be very much appreciated.
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post #2 of 14 Old 01-19-2013, 08:58 AM
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You have it a bit wrong, I have the same Denon amp and a similar DVD.

The Denon has a 8 channel input, so ignore the effects inputs on the amp. There are L and R inputs for front and rear, and a single centre and sub input above each other, between the front and rear inputs, each other, these match up exactly with the DVD outpputs.

Remember you will need to also set speaker levels and distances in the DVD set up menu, and boost the sub channel by 10 db if all speakers are set to large, and 15db if any speaker is set to small.

Good luck
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post #3 of 14 Old 01-19-2013, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Many thanks! I'm waiting for some QED profile interconnects, at which point I'll give it another go and let you know how I get on.

BTW, the input diagrams in the Denon manual are so minuscule, it's very difficult to read which input are there. Also difficult to see the actual inputs when there stuck in a hi-fi cupboard!
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post #4 of 14 Old 01-19-2013, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by PhotographerW2 View Post

Many thanks! I'm waiting for some QED profile interconnects, at which point I'll give it another go and let you know how I get on.

BTW, the input diagrams in the Denon manual are so minuscule, it's very difficult to read which input are there. Also difficult to see the actual inputs when there stuck in a hi-fi cupboard!

Could not agree more, the time I have spent behind mine with a torch in the mouth fitting cables does not bear thinking about !
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post #5 of 14 Old 01-19-2013, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by PhotographerW2 View Post

When attached via digital optical out, I can definitely hear a surround mix that sounds pretty good when playing DVD-Audios, which seems to contradict the note above.

It doesn't contradict the note, because with optical you are hearing the lossy DD or dts surround mix, not the high res mix. The booklet should say it is playable on a DVD-video player and that's what you're getting.

I'm afraid using MCH analogue on old equipment is very outdated and not the best way any more for SACD/DVD-A. It's very hard to get the LFE boost right. Some receivers only let you trim, not boost the sub channel and rarely by 15dB. Some players will not let you do bass management for SACDs (if it only does DSD-analogue direct decoding). You won't get room correction.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #6 of 14 Old 01-20-2013, 02:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your reply. I'm sure you're right that it's outdated, but the amp that I have in my sitting room (as opposed to the room with my projector which has a newer Pioneer VSX 2021, but where I don't want to sit and listen to music).

When I have new interconnects, I'll do my best to balance the channels, although I'm sure it will be subjective. I haven't tried yet - I'm assuming there'll be 'noise' from each channel in turn that I have to try and equalise.

Best

Richard
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post #7 of 14 Old 01-20-2013, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by PhotographerW2 View Post

Thanks for your reply. I'm sure you're right that it's outdated, but the amp that I have in my sitting room (as opposed to the room with my projector which has a newer Pioneer VSX 2021, but where I don't want to sit and listen to music).

When I have new interconnects, I'll do my best to balance the channels, although I'm sure it will be subjective. I haven't tried yet - I'm assuming there'll be 'noise' from each channel in turn that I have to try and equalise.

Best

Richard

To balance it

1 The amp should already have been balanced when you set it up suing the main set up menu.
2 Play the DVD test tones and adjust the gains on the DVD player so they are balanced, also set the speaker distance and size in the DVD set up menu.
3 Now the tricky part, a 10 or 15 db boost to the sub - I assume you have some small speakers so its 15db
4 Use the amps channel option to boost the sub lelvel on the external input you are using (NOT THE MAIN SET UP MENU) to give as much boost as you can - there is a limit of +12db, so if it was already set at say +3db (from the main amp set up process) you have added 9db and need 6 db more.
5 Use the amps channel option to lower all of the channles except the sub on the external input you are using (NOT THE MAIN SET UP MENU) by 6db.
6 Be aware if you re- do any levels in the main set up menu parts 2 to 5 above will need to be done again.
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post #8 of 14 Old 01-20-2013, 04:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Many thanks. I'll post how I get on next weekend.

R
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post #9 of 14 Old 01-27-2013, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, it's working, and it sounds great. The only problem is that the Denon amp has no HDMI out, and my Panasonic Viera Plasma screen only has HDMI and RF in, I can't see the onscreen controls for balancing the channels. Doh!

So unless there's an inexpensive way to connect s-video (or whatever other video outputs there are on the Denon AVC-A1SE amp) to HDMI, I'm going to have to drag my ancient Sony TV from the attic and plug it in in order to fine tune the channels.

Anyway, for the time being I'm loving it as it is, and with guests and kids in the house, haven't had enough time to listen this weekend.

What I am now planning to do (besides an assault on eBay to buy more SACDs and DVD-As) is to buy another SACDs DVD-A player to pair with my Pioneer VSX 2021 - actually it's the updated version of this as the original died after 2 months. This is in the kids' playroom/cinema room. Not somewhere I was expecting to sit and listen to music, but the speakers are better (B&W floorstanders and centre channel/Q Acoustics Q7000 speakers as rears), whereas in the sitting room I have good B&W bookshelf speakers as front left and right with Q Acoustics Q7000 speakers are centre and rear (Probably not that well balanced, but I'd only expected to watch surround sound TV and use the B&Ws to listen to stereo music).

If "using MCH analogue on old equipment is very outdated and not the best way any more for SACD/DVD-A" it would be great to have a recommendation of the correct way to play DVD-A and SACD. I assume it was always through analog cables, but maybe not? If so, it would be great to have recommendations of current players or good 'deleted' players that might be available on eBay, etc.

Many thanks, as always.

R
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post #10 of 14 Old 01-27-2013, 06:39 PM
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Well it's all done by HDMI now. Not perfect or 'correct' but many advantages over MCH analogue.

There is a thread on the Surround Music Formats section listing Blu-ray universal players, and similar threads in the 2CH section (listing which players can send DSD and PCM at what sample rate) and individual player discussions in the Blu-ray Player section. The brands that do BD uni players are the same ones that did DVD uni players. Each brand has it's fans and follows so it depends on your own preference and needs.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #11 of 14 Old 01-28-2013, 02:36 AM
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Glad it all worked out on the audio front. This item should sort out your video connection problems.

Best of luck


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Composite-S-Video-AV-to-HDMI-Converter-CRT-TV-analog-720P-1080P-/150986036456?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item23277814e8
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post #12 of 14 Old 01-28-2013, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Many thanks. Just ordered one! While plotting which BluRay player with SACD/DVD-A to start saving for...
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post #13 of 14 Old 01-28-2013, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by PhotographerW2 View Post

Many thanks. Just ordered one! While plotting which BluRay player with SACD/DVD-A to start saving for...

Very impressed with the Oppo range. I have a 93, which is being replaced with a 103, you might get a good deal on the 93
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post #14 of 14 Old 02-09-2013, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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It's been a long time coming, but I'm now listening to surround sound music that sounds great. The s-video to HDMI converter worked after tearing my hear out for an hour (worked out the s-video cable was a dud, luckily had another). Navigating the setup screens on the Denon amp is soul destroying, but I've got an approximation of a very good sound.

I'll save for the Oppo for my other system - assuming is sounds good with regular CDs as well.

Thanks, everyone, for the great advice.
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