Pre outs not working, or is this a feature? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 01-19-2013, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,
I have an Sr-5007 hooked up to a 3.1 setup that I also wish to connect to a Niles amp which drives stereo speakers in 4 other rooms. I connected the FL and FR pre out's to the Niles, but no joy. I did test the amp with an analog input and it is working fine. I noticed this on p 27 of OM:
NOTE
When external power amplifier have been connected to PRE OUT terminals, do not connect the speakers to the speaker terminals.
So, does this mean that you cannot use the built in amp and the Pre Outs simultaneously? Seems unnecessary to hobble it like that if it's true. Which brings up my next question; Why can't Zone 2 work with digital inputs? If it did, I could use that as a work around (and have something different playing in the kitchen than on the deck). However, since all my sources are digital, it's utterly useless.
My old Yamaha worked fine using the Rec Out for this function, it's like 10 years old, surely this amp is capable of the same?

Thanks

PS I tried to contact Marantz on this issue, sent 5 emails in the past 10 days and spent over an hour on hold on their "customer support" line, got nothing from them. Just automated replies from email and a message on the phone saying that calls are answered in order they are received, but no clue as to where I was in the queue or if it was indeed moving at all. This alone has me disappointed in them enough to have called Amazon for return labels for the 2 5007s I recently purchased. I'm thinking of replacing them with Denon 2313 or 3313s, but since they are the same company I'm concerned the support will be similarly dismal. Anyone else try getting support from the Denon or Marantz?

Sorry for the long post...
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post #2 of 9 Old 01-19-2013, 09:18 PM
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Why would it be set up to use both the amps for L/R as well as preamp outs within the same zone? How would it decide which to use during things like auto setup?

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post #3 of 9 Old 01-19-2013, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Why can't Zone 2 work with digital inputs? If it did, I could use that as a work around (and have something different playing in the kitchen than on the deck). However, since all my sources are digital, it's utterly useless.

What digital sources do you have that don't have an analog audio output too?

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post #4 of 9 Old 01-19-2013, 09:42 PM
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If using an external amp, plugging it into the pre-outs essentially bypasses the receivers amplifier.

Speakers need to be powered so hook them up to the external amp. The processing is done by the receiver. Really not that hard to comprehend.
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post #5 of 9 Old 01-20-2013, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCentric View Post

Hi,
I have an Sr-5007 hooked up to a 3.1 setup that I also wish to connect to a Niles amp which drives stereo speakers in 4 other rooms. I connected the FL and FR pre out's to the Niles, but no joy. I did test the amp with an analog input and it is working fine. I noticed this on p 27 of OM:
NOTE
When external power amplifier have been connected to PRE OUT terminals, do not connect the speakers to the speaker terminals.
So, does this mean that you cannot use the built in amp and the Pre Outs simultaneously? Seems unnecessary to hobble it like that if it's true. Which brings up my next question; Why can't Zone 2 work with digital inputs? If it did, I could use that as a work around (and have something different playing in the kitchen than on the deck). However, since all my sources are digital, it's utterly useless.

The Note above can be confusing, but basically means that you are NOT to connect the "SAME" speakers to both the external amp and AVR at the same time. There should be no issue connecting your Niles amp to the pre-out jacks as the signal is hot to both the speaker posts and the pre-outs. You may need to reset the microprocessor on the 5007 or test with the other 5007.

As far as Zone 2 goes, virtually 98% of all AVRs on the market today cannot pass a digital signal to Zone 2. On the 5007, only an analog connected source, USB, FM radio, and on board network audio will pass to Zone 2.

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post #6 of 9 Old 01-21-2013, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The Note above can be confusing, but basically means that you are NOT to connect the "SAME" speakers to both the external amp and AVR at the same time. There should be no issue connecting your Niles amp to the pre-out jacks as the signal is hot to both the speaker posts and the pre-outs. You may need to reset the microprocessor on the 5007 or test with the other 5007.

As far as Zone 2 goes, virtually 98% of all AVRs on the market today cannot pass a digital signal to Zone 2. On the 5007, only an analog connected source, USB, FM radio, and on board network audio will pass to Zone 2.

Thanks, that's the info I was looking for. I'll try the reset and see if that fixes it. I may try the other 5007 if it doesn't, but I'm guessing that if I remove it from the system at this point, due to the lack of support from Marantz, it's getting returned.
On that note, any suggestions on what to replace this with? Something with Airplay, at least 5 HDMI inputs, 100+ Watt 7.1 channels and real support from the manufacturer? I like Denon, but they seem to be the same company as Marantz and I prefer not to support them. Which seems to leave Yamaha and Pioneer in the same feature/price range. I have an Onkyo that I like (616) but it seems a little buggy and I can spend a bit more on this project for a better product (onkyo support seems lacking too, but it's also about half the price of the Marantz for similar features).

Is there a technical reason that digital sources can't be passed to Zone 2?
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post #7 of 9 Old 01-21-2013, 11:44 AM
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Most AV receivers simply don't have the hardware necessary to send digital sources to zone 2. You need another pair of DACs and more complicated digital audio switching for SPDIF optical/coaxial input support in zone 2. For HDMI audio you need that plus an HDMI matrix switch and another HDMI decoder.
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post #8 of 9 Old 01-21-2013, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Why would it be set up to use both the amps for L/R as well as preamp outs within the same zone? How would it decide which to use during things like auto setup?

The AVR drives a 3.1 setup in the main room, the Niles is intended to be set up to drive stereo setups in 4 other rooms. During auto setup I don't even turn the Niles on, and it doesn't even need to be aware of it. If I want to play a CD on the deck or in the bathroom, I play it on the Marantz and turn on the Niles. Each room has it's own volume controls. All of this was set up previously connected to the Rec Out of a Yamaha

I suppose I could set up analog inputs from most of the devices, but that complicates things and this setup is for an older couple who want it simple, they'll never need or want to watch a movie in one room and play music in another, so I'd rather not setup Zone 2.
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post #9 of 9 Old 01-21-2013, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

If using an external amp, plugging it into the pre-outs essentially bypasses the receivers amplifier.

Speakers need to be powered so hook them up to the external amp. The processing is done by the receiver. Really not that hard to comprehend.

No it's not. But apparently some people missed it. The Marantz is powering the speakers in the main room. The Niles is used to send the same signal to speakers in 4 other rooms, each with their own volume controls. I didn't understand why the pre-outs of FL and FR weren't sending a signal to the Niles, if it was broken, or a feature. jdsmoothie had the answer. Perhaps I didn't word the question clearly enough to begin with.

Cheers, and thanks for all the input.

And thanks Ross Ridge, makes sense now.
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