Ned new Receiver. Have Denon 5800 want to stay with Denon... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 01-22-2013, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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EDIT, obviously the title is NEED new Receiver, not Ned. LOL



Denon 5800 THX certified, the flagship back whenever. But with the way components work now, i really need up converting and HDMI passthrough.

So...does THX certifed mean anything anymore?

Denon AVR-4520CI blows it away, but has no THX processing.

Denon AVR-5308CI(A) has the same power, THX processing but none of the 4k upscaling, only 1080p.

What are your thoughts on what i should buy?

$2k-$4k range.

Components used are :

Oppo 93
Pioneer Laserdisc
HD DVD XA-X2 (the Toshiba one, model number may be wrong)
Xbox 360
HD Cable Box

Going to a JVC X75 or X95 (haven't decided)

My room is being wired now, and this possible upgrade will make wiring much easier (obviously).

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post #2 of 12 Old 01-22-2013, 07:50 PM
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I own the AVR-5800 (master bedroom), the AVR-4311CI (living room) and and the Denon AVP-A1HDCI (media room). So, I know what you're coming from.

Personally, I'd lean towards the 5308, but only if you spring for the extra $1K and get the XT32/3D upgrade. Who cares about 4K right now? You kept your 5800 for 12+ years. Back then, the "future proof" feature was a set 7.1 of 5.1 analog inputs. Sure, they kept that receiver usable for several years, but how many technologies came and went since then? DVI, HDMI 1->1.3a, etc...

I don't think the 4520CI is going to to give you the audio performance you've come to expect from the 5800.
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post #3 of 12 Old 01-22-2013, 08:01 PM
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I wouldn't worry about THX certification. Denon apparently didn't since they left off the THX cert for the 4520.

And as for who's worrying about 4K - it wasn't too long ago everyone was saying that about 3D. Not that I'm concerned with either - my Oppo and display isn't even 3D capable.

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post #4 of 12 Old 01-22-2013, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post


I don't think the 4520CI is going to to give you the audio performance you've come to expect from the 5800.

I appreciate your replyl! Can you possibly expand upon that?

I didnt' look at the DACs the 4520 uses, but you're saying the BurrBrowns in the 5800 are superior to whatever are in the 4520?

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post #5 of 12 Old 01-23-2013, 02:34 AM
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The 4520CI uses Burr Brown as well and although the 5308CI w/XT32 upgrade would be superior to the 4520CI, the stand alone 5800 is not likely to measure up to it with no Audyssey whatsoever.

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post #6 of 12 Old 01-23-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK Doom View Post

I appreciate your replyl! Can you possibly expand upon that?

I didnt' look at the DACs the 4520 uses, but you're saying the BurrBrowns in the 5800 are superior to whatever are in the 4520?

The problem with most modern receivers is their (relatively) tiny power supply and voltage rails. This applies to the 4311CI, as well as the 4520CI. The power supply/amp section is one of the most expensive components of an AVR, and which is why your 5800 retailed for $3800 over 12 years ago.

The DACs in any modern receiver aren't going to make a perceptible difference. Room correction certainly can work wonders, but you'll have the best foundation for this improvement when you start with a strong amp section. Not that you'll necessarily be listening at extreme levels... a good quality amp section will give you nicer sound at even the lowest volume levels.

If you weren't already used to an AVR-5800, then the 4520CI would be a perfect starting point. It may still be! However, since I've owned the 5800 for many years, as well as own the 4311CI (amp-wise equivalent to 4520CI) I can tell you the performance difference is obvious. My 4311CI obviously provides more functionality, HDMI switching, and other things I need for the room that it is in. But if I was listening to music, or if I had to pick one of the two for absolute sound quality, the 5800 would come out on top, almost every time.

Certainly someone will chime in here with the old all-amps-sound-the-same-and-measure-the-same argument. I don't want to start that debate. They always forget (purposely neglect?) to mention that an amp is just one piece of the "circuit" that includes your speakers. Speakers can be a dynamic, demanding load to a receiver. And the better-built receivers are more able to supply the power and handle the impedance variations (which colors the sound), than most modern light-weight designs.
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post #7 of 12 Old 01-24-2013, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, my local Best Buy who i have a good relationship with, can't get one...So that option might be out anyway...

Sigh.

I wonder when Denon will make their next BIG receiver.

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post #8 of 12 Old 01-24-2013, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK Doom View Post

Well, my local Best Buy who i have a good relationship with, can't get one...So that option might be out anyway...

Sigh.

I wonder when Denon will make their next BIG receiver.

They probably won't, ever. Get the AVR-5308CI, while you still can smile.gif
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post #9 of 12 Old 01-24-2013, 05:36 PM
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Even though Denon still has the 5308 on their website, it appears that they are out of stock on them, but I would call them to make 100% sure, of course they'll charge full MSRP unless they have a refurb, and their refurb page doesn't have it listed. (AVR-A100s are listed both new and refurb but they're essentially the same as 4311s). I would call every authorized Denon dealer you can (B&M stores and/or Internet) and you may be able to find a 5308 new or demo. Dakmart still has the 5308 on their website but it is a refurb and I have read very mixed reviews about purchasing & support from them (they are Denon Authorized, another one is Accessories4less but I think they are out of stock). I strongly considered getting a 5308 but decided to be content with a 4310 and 4311. For way more money, the AVP and POA might be an option, you might still be able to find a deal on the last ones that are out there.
Or bring a 4520 home and audition it for 30 days and see if you can be OK with it's performance vs. the 5800. Let us know how things work out. smile.gif
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post #10 of 12 Old 01-24-2013, 05:41 PM
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I own a 5308ci with the upgrade, but if it died today, I would probably get the 4520ci or maybe a refurbished 4311ci from A4L.

Given the OP already has a decent decoder in the Oppo BDP-93 and the rest of his stuff is fairly decent, I would look at an external amp for the CORE surround speakers.

An external amp will certainly take care of the anemic amp section in ALL Denon receivers. You'll need one anyway to do 11.x.

The only questions concerning an amp would be 1) room in rack, and 2) a dedicated receptacle just for the amp.

How big is your room?

How many speakers are you planning on running?

How many subs?

Make sure you have plenty of dedicated outlets for expansion.

I have FIVE 20 amp circuits dedicated to my listening room plus the two original 20 amp circuits that power the power recline for my seating and the transducer ( ButtKickers ) amp.

I have...

TWO circuits dedicated for amplification. I'm using one for the Emotiva XPR-5 ( 400w x 5. )
ONE circuit for my lighting, which are on a 26' U-shaped track with 13 60w PAR16 cans.
ONE circuit for my subwoofers.
ONE circuit for the TV, disc players, satellite receiver, Denon receiver, and HTPC or xBox when connected.

My recommendation, provided the OP is cool with refurb, would be the Denon AVR-4311ci from A4L for $1100 plus something like the Emotiva XPA-5 ( 200w x 5 ) for $900 for the core 5.x setup. The Denon can run any additional speakers quite easily at near its rated 150w/ch.

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post #11 of 12 Old 01-24-2013, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK Doom View Post

Well, my local Best Buy who i have a good relationship with, can't get one...So that option might be out anyway...

Sigh.

I wonder when Denon will make their next BIG receiver.

If you have a BestBuy card and want to take advantage of their deferred interest, you can order the Denon AVR-4520ci on-line and have it dropped-shipped to your BB store for pickup or have it delivered. That is the only current Denon receiver that would even be remotely equivalent to the old 5800.

HD-DVD = 94
Blu-Ray = 120 ( 24 Warner red2blu )
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post #12 of 12 Old 01-24-2013, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for input, I'll let you guys know what happens!

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