Need help selecting a mid-range reciever. Onkyo/Denon/Pioneer/Sony/Marantz??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 01-27-2013, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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My JVC RX-1028V died today (~13 yrs old). I am looking for suggestions for a replacement with a budget around $300-700.

Energy Take Classic 5.0 and have a custom built 12" sub with 500W amp. I am planning to get a pair of bookshelf speakers by the end of the year. This unit will be for my family room which is about 25' long by 13' wide and 9' ceiling.

The receiver is typically used for TV (40%), Movies (30%), Music (20%), and video games (10%). I don't think I would ever use this receiver for anything over 7.1; however multi-source/multi-zone is a must. It will be used for outside speakers as well (pre-wired but may look into wireless - suggestions?). I would like to be able to listen to music/video from my android phone. The router is located in next to the AV stack so wireless is not a big deal.

I am looking for a receiver that will be able to grow with my system and be somewhat future proof.

Here are a few options that I am considering:

Onkyo TX-NR717
Onkyo TX-NR616

Denon AVR-2313CI - Added
Denon AVR-2113CI
Denon AVR-1913
Marantz NR1603
Pioneer Elite SC-61
Pioneer Elite VSX-60
Pioneer Elite VSX-42
Pioneer VSX-1122K
Sony STR-DN1030


I was considering Yamaha, but I would prefer Audyssey. Edit - This is not required.

Please let me know if you need more information.

Thank you all for your help!!!

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

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post #2 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 04:54 AM - Thread Starter
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bump...looking for advice.

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

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post #3 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmszafran View Post

bump...looking for advice.

I've answered your question about six times this week, but I admit it I didn't write you a personal note.

Why not look at recent posts instead of demanding so much personalized service?
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post #4 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 05:25 AM
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Scratch off the Sony, Marantz, Onkyo and Pioneer. That should make the list more manageable.

No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!
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post #5 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks.

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is
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post #6 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice!

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is
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post #7 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I've answered your question about six times this week, but I admit it I didn't write you a personal note.

Why not look at recent posts instead of demanding so much personalized service?

I have been reading posts for days already and now asking for a little help. Sorry if my post is out of line. I would not have posted if I didn't think it was worth it.

I agree that most of the questions are similar, but wanted to make sure that I am not missing something. Didnt think I was being demanding!

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

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post #8 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 07:32 AM
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I'm in a similar boat as you. Seems most agree to not consider Onkyo, Sony and Pioneer. Haven't heard about Marantz being bad, but I'm sure he knows more than I do.

Even though you're set on Audyssey, I'd still consider Yamaha. Great SQ and features for the price. Just sayin'.
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post #9 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 07:57 AM
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I was in the same boat and just pulled the trigger on the Denon AVR-1913. Seemed to hit my price/performance/features sweet spot, especially since I picked up a factory refurbished model for $379. It arrive Friday, and it's flawless and warranteed for a year from Denon.

I was originally set on the Onkyo NR-616, but after a little diligence, I discovered those units are plagued by HDMI failures. Crutchfield won't even sell them anymore. The guy from Crutchfield I spoke to said the other Onkyo models are less likely to have HDMI issues, but he sounded less than certain and seemed to be steering me away from Onkyo. Check out user reviews at CNET, Amazon and here, and you'll see a million nightmare stories about faulty units with the new Onkyo AVRs.

I crossed off the Pioneer VSX-1122K, too, because it was generally reviewed as being feature rich but a little bit lacking in terms of sound quality. Never heard it, though, so take that with a grain of salt.

The Sony STR-DN1030 was intriguing, but I didn't really need the wireless aspect (mine is for a newly renovated space where I've had CAT5 run to the AV cabinet), and the price point was not as attractive as the Denon.

One thing to keep in mind with the Denon 1913 is that it has Audyssey MultiEQ, NOT Audyssey MultiEQXT. If that's an issue for you, you might want to step up to the 2113 or back down to the 1713 (if you are good with 5.1 instead of 7.1).

Good luck, and let us know what you end up with and how it works out.
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post #10 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 08:27 AM
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This is easy. GIven that Audyssey is one of your requirements that knocks off Sony and Pioneer outright. On closer inspection it also knocks off Onkyo as the 616 and 717 only have 2EQ which offers no sub equalization and limited eq for the rest of the speakers.

That leaves Denon and Marantz. If you take a close look at Denon and Marantz AVRs they are very similar but Marantz equivalent models add a few extra connections and carry a higher MSRP - e.g. Denon 3313 vs Marantz 7007. Some argue there are additional differences over and above the extra connections but I would say since your looking for a mid-priced AVR Denon will offer a far greater bang for your buck than Marantz.

So in a nutshell, that leaves Denon as the last AVR standing in your scenario based on your requirements.
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post #11 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurth01 View Post

I was in the same boat and just pulled the trigger on the Denon AVR-1913. Seemed to hit my price/performance/features sweet spot, especially since I picked up a factory refurbished model for $379. It arrive Friday, and it's flawless and warranteed for a year from Denon.

I was originally set on the Onkyo NR-616, but after a little diligence, I discovered those units are plagued by HDMI failures. Crutchfield won't even sell them anymore. The guy from Crutchfield I spoke to said the other Onkyo models are less likely to have HDMI issues, but he sounded less than certain and seemed to be steering me away from Onkyo. Check out user reviews at CNET, Amazon and here, and you'll see a million nightmare stories about faulty units with the new Onkyo AVRs.

I crossed off the Pioneer VSX-1122K, too, because it was generally reviewed as being feature rich but a little bit lacking in terms of sound quality. Never heard it, though, so take that with a grain of salt.

The Sony STR-DN1030 was intriguing, but I didn't really need the wireless aspect (mine is for a newly renovated space where I've had CAT5 run to the AV cabinet), and the price point was not as attractive as the Denon.

One thing to keep in mind with the Denon 1913 is that it has Audyssey MultiEQ, NOT Audyssey MultiEQXT. If that's an issue for you, you might want to step up to the 2113 or back down to the 1713 (if you are good with 5.1 instead of 7.1).

Good luck, and let us know what you end up with and how it works out.

Thank you for input. I think I am leaning towards Denon, but may need to reconsider Yamaha. Any recommendations of where to find the best prices for these units?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EVT View Post

This is easy. GIven that Audyssey is one of your requirements that knocks off Sony and Pioneer outright. On closer inspection it also knocks off Onkyo as the 616 and 717 only have 2EQ which offers no sub equalization and limited eq for the rest of the speakers.

That leaves Denon and Marantz. If you take a close look at Denon and Marantz AVRs they are very similar but Marantz equivalent models add a few extra connections and carry a higher MSRP - e.g. Denon 3313 vs Marantz 7007. Some argue there are additional differences over and above the extra connections but I would say since your looking for a mid-priced AVR Denon will offer a far greater bang for your buck than Marantz.

So in a nutshell, that leaves Denon as the last AVR standing in your scenario based on your requirements.

Thanks!

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is
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post #12 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 09:49 AM
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If you're ok with going the refurbished route, I picked mine up from Accessories4Less, here. They shipped the same day I placed my order and the AVR came packaged in the box right from Denon. Very smooth transaction.

Also, they now have the 2113 on sale for only $40 more. If that were available last week when I pulled the trigger, I might have gone that route instead for the MultiEQXT. Not sure what other features are stepped-up on that model, but probably worth taking a look.
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post #13 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurth01 View Post

I was in the same boat and just pulled the trigger on the Denon AVR-1913. Seemed to hit my price/performance/features sweet spot, especially since I picked up a factory refurbished model for $379. It arrive Friday, and it's flawless and warranteed for a year from Denon.

I was originally set on the Onkyo NR-616, but after a little diligence, I discovered those units are plagued by HDMI failures. Crutchfield won't even sell them anymore. The guy from Crutchfield I spoke to said the other Onkyo models are less likely to have HDMI issues, but he sounded less than certain and seemed to be steering me away from Onkyo. Check out user reviews at CNET, Amazon and here, and you'll see a million nightmare stories about faulty units with the new Onkyo AVRs.

I crossed off the Pioneer VSX-1122K, too, because it was generally reviewed as being feature rich but a little bit lacking in terms of sound quality. Never heard it, though, so take that with a grain of salt.

The Sony STR-DN1030 was intriguing, but I didn't really need the wireless aspect (mine is for a newly renovated space where I've had CAT5 run to the AV cabinet), and the price point was not as attractive as the Denon.

One thing to keep in mind with the Denon 1913 is that it has Audyssey MultiEQ, NOT Audyssey MultiEQXT. If that's an issue for you, you might want to step up to the 2113 or back down to the 1713 (if you are good with 5.1 instead of 7.1).

Good luck, and let us know what you end up with and how it works out.

Thank you for the help. I may need to reconsider Yamaha. I know I will need help calibrating for my room and the sub calibration is a strong need. If Yamaha's calibration can help with the sub, I would be open to it. Any recommendations for where to find the best prices for these receivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EVT View Post

This is easy. GIven that Audyssey is one of your requirements that knocks off Sony and Pioneer outright. On closer inspection it also knocks off Onkyo as the 616 and 717 only have 2EQ which offers no sub equalization and limited eq for the rest of the speakers.

That leaves Denon and Marantz. If you take a close look at Denon and Marantz AVRs they are very similar but Marantz equivalent models add a few extra connections and carry a higher MSRP - e.g. Denon 3313 vs Marantz 7007. Some argue there are additional differences over and above the extra connections but I would say since your looking for a mid-priced AVR Denon will offer a far greater bang for your buck than Marantz.

So in a nutshell, that leaves Denon as the last AVR standing in your scenario based on your requirements.

Thanks. Missed that the Onkyo 717 only had 2EX.

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is
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post #14 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kurth01 View Post

If you're ok with going the refurbished route, I picked mine up from Accessories4Less, here. They shipped the same day I placed my order and the AVR came packaged in the box right from Denon. Very smooth transaction.

Also, they now have the 2113 on sale for only $40 more. If that were available last week when I pulled the trigger, I might have gone that route instead for the MultiEQXT. Not sure what other features are stepped-up on that model, but probably worth taking a look.

I am OK with Refurbished...if it means getting a better unit for the same price or saving $ for the unit!!! Thanks.

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

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post #15 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, so it looks like Denon may be the way to go. Now I am trying to compare the Denon options and their website has made that a very difficult task. Has anybody compiled a comparison of the Denon receivers from this year or even better including last years models as well?

I would love to know the differences between all the Denon units and if the added features are worth the additional cost. I am a Spreadsheet kind of guy!

Thanks for all the help. My list has been whittled down from 100 down to 30 to 10 to about 5 now. Denon 4520CI (wish!), 3313CI, 2313CI, 2113CI, and 1913.

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

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post #16 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 11:56 AM
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Check the Official Denon 19XX owners thread here at avs for exactly what you're looking for. The list of each model and step-up features from model to model is in the first couple of posts.
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post #17 of 30 Old 01-28-2013, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everybody for the help.

I am down to the Denon AVR-2313CI and 2113CI. For the prices I have found so far, the 2313 is $100 more. Trying to decide if the Audyssey DSX and Dual HDMI Outputs as well as a better Zone 2 options are worth the extra $.

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

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post #18 of 30 Old 01-29-2013, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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What is a better deal a referbished unit from an autherized dealer or a new unit from a reputable unautherized online dealer for $15 more? The price difference is total including tax and shipping.

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

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post #19 of 30 Old 01-29-2013, 04:23 PM
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I would buy from the authorized reseller anyday. Who knows, your receiver could crap out on Day 31, and you would be out of the return policy at the reseller and you'd wish you had the warranty.
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Originally Posted by GaryWA View Post

I would buy from the authorized reseller anyday. Who knows, your receiver could crap out on Day 31, and you would be out of the return policy at the reseller and you'd wish you had the warranty.

Does Denon not warrant units sold from non-autherized resellers? From the Denon website looks like they will honor their warranty as long as the unit is not tampered with. Which is correct?

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

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post #21 of 30 Old 01-29-2013, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmszafran View Post



Does Denon not warrant units sold from non-autherized resellers? From the Denon website looks like they will honor their warranty as long as the unit is not tampered with. Which is correct?

Hm. Sounds like they do. Well it's up to you then.
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post #22 of 30 Old 01-29-2013, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmszafran View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryWA View Post

I would buy from the authorized reseller anyday. Who knows, your receiver could crap out on Day 31, and you would be out of the return policy at the reseller and you'd wish you had the warranty.

Does Denon not warrant units sold from non-autherized resellers? From the Denon website looks like they will honor their warranty as long as the unit is not tampered with. Which is correct?



http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/US/WebWarrHOME-NEW-US-Dec11_02.pdf

Looks like the best course of action is to buy from an authorized retailer.

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post #23 of 30 Old 01-30-2013, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmszafran View Post



Does Denon not warrant units sold from non-autherized resellers? From the Denon website looks like they will honor their warranty as long as the unit is not tampered with. Which is correct?


Correct. No warrany from unauthorized dealers.

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post #24 of 30 Old 01-30-2013, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurth01 View Post

I was in the same boat and just pulled the trigger on the Denon AVR-1913. Seemed to hit my price/performance/features sweet spot, especially since I picked up a factory refurbished model for $379. It arrive Friday, and it's flawless and warranteed for a year from Denon.

Check with your credit card provider as some will add an additional year of warranty making it 2 years total (eg. Amex will do this for sure and some MC/Visa will as well). This is true regardless of whether the unit is purchased "new" or "refurbished". Note that although Accessories4Less does not accept Amex, if that is the card you want to use, you can get a PayPal account tied to an Amex card and then purchase from AC4L using PayPal.

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Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Oppo, Parasound 
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
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post #25 of 30 Old 01-30-2013, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post



http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/US/WebWarrHOME-NEW-US-Dec11_02.pdf

Looks like the best course of action is to buy from an authorized retailer.

I just found this on Denon's website.

What happens if I purchase my Denon product from an unauthorized dealer?

The warranty on Denon products is NOT VALID if the products have been purchased from an unauthorized dealer/online retailer or if the original factory serial number has been altered, removed, or replaced in any way. In the past, Denon has become aware of numerous instances in which such serial number tampering has occurred. Unauthorized dealers/online retailers and/or their suppliers may alter the serial numbers in an effort to prevent manufacturers from tracing the supplier source. Denon sells products through authorized retail and online channels to insure that consumers obtain quality pre-sale and after-sale support and service.

PROTECT YOUR WARRANTY. Buy from an authorized Denon Electronics dealer/online retailer. Also, check the unit and its packaging to determine whether the factory serial number may have been altered. To check and see if your dealer is an authorized dealer or if in doubt, please call Denon Support at 201-762-6665. Support is available Mon-Fri, 9 AM to 8 PM EST. You can also check to see if a dealer/online retailer is listed on our website by clicking one of the following links.

US - http://usa.denon.com/US/WhereToBuy/Pages/DealerSearch.aspx

Canada - http://ca.denon.com/CA/WhereToBuy/Pages/DealerSearch.aspx

For warranty terms and conditions on new or refurbished equipment, please select the appropriate link.

New Product Warranty

Refurbished Product Warranty

Authorized is the way to go! And refurbished only carries a 1 year warranty for receivers. Might be worth going for New products.

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is
to discover them." - Galileo
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post #26 of 30 Old 01-30-2013, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jmszafran View Post

I just found this on Denon's website.

What happens if I purchase my Denon product from an unauthorized dealer?

The warranty on Denon products is NOT VALID if the products have been purchased from an unauthorized dealer/online retailer or if the original factory serial number has been altered, removed, or replaced in any way. In the past, Denon has become aware of numerous instances in which such serial number tampering has occurred. Unauthorized dealers/online retailers and/or their suppliers may alter the serial numbers in an effort to prevent manufacturers from tracing the supplier source. Denon sells products through authorized retail and online channels to insure that consumers obtain quality pre-sale and after-sale support and service.

PROTECT YOUR WARRANTY. Buy from an authorized Denon Electronics dealer/online retailer. Also, check the unit and its packaging to determine whether the factory serial number may have been altered. To check and see if your dealer is an authorized dealer or if in doubt, please call Denon Support at 201-762-6665. Support is available Mon-Fri, 9 AM to 8 PM EST. You can also check to see if a dealer/online retailer is listed on our website by clicking one of the following links.

US - http://usa.denon.com/US/WhereToBuy/Pages/DealerSearch.aspx

Canada - http://ca.denon.com/CA/WhereToBuy/Pages/DealerSearch.aspx

For warranty terms and conditions on new or refurbished equipment, please select the appropriate link.

New Product Warranty

Refurbished Product Warranty

Authorized is the way to go! And refurbished only carries a 1 year warranty for receivers. Might be worth going for New products.

not sure I understand the question. If you buy from a non authorized dealer and the unit fails, Denon has no duty to perform warranty service. So unless the seller offers their own warranty, you pay somebody to fix it like you would if it failed after the warranty period expires. Pretty much what you'd expect based on the quoted provisions, no?
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post #27 of 30 Old 01-30-2013, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

not sure I understand the question. If you buy from a non authorized dealer and the unit fails, Denon has no duty to perform warranty service. So unless the seller offers their own warranty, you pay somebody to fix it like you would if it failed after the warranty period expires. Pretty much what you'd expect based on the quoted provisions, no?

That is correct. I wasn't aware of Denon's warranty when I asked the question. I think there are some manufactures that honor their warranty independent of the dealers status. That was my question from a couple posts ago. When I found the answer, I posted it here to let everyone know that I found the answer and what it was.

I am finding that shopping around within the authorized resellers, you can still get a fair deal. I have a few more phone calls to make to find the best prices on the 2313 vs the 2113. I would like the 2313, but the price difference is pushing me towards the 2113 right now. I will know by this weekend and have something on order!

Now I have to ask; is there a manufacturer that caters more towards Android users versus Apple products? If so, how does the a/v quality and reliability compare to Denon?

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is
to discover them." - Galileo
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post #28 of 30 Old 02-01-2013, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I have found the 2313 for $120 more than the 2113. Both are new from authorized reseller. What would you do? I don't really care about the extra power output, but the DSX and extra HDMI output would be nice in the next year when I get a nicer set of bookshelves and move to a 7.1 system.

Am I over-thinking a no brainer?

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is
to discover them." - Galileo
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post #29 of 30 Old 02-15-2013, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I just purchased the AVR-2313CI. Thank you all for your help. Now is the hardest part...waiting for it to arrive!!!

Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30
Denon AVR-2313
Energy Take Classic 5.0 - Would love to upgrade to a nice set of bookshelf speakers for LCR.
Custom 500W 12" Sub

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is
to discover them." - Galileo
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post #30 of 30 Old 06-28-2013, 07:44 AM
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This thread is making me second guess my choices.

I bought the Denon 2313, brought it home and when I hooked it up the right channels were messed up. So I returned it, decided not to give Denon a second chance and grabbed a deal on a Pioneer Elite SC-61.

Mistake? I have been told by friends that know audio way better than me (not hard) that it's a great receiver.

The ht shop was trying to talk me into the Marantz NR1603.

Thoughts?
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