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12K views 43 replies 27 participants last post by  arnyk 
#1 ·
"The board of the HDMI Forum has announced HDMI 2.0, which is expected to come out in the first half of 2013, with double the existing bandwidth -- enough for 4K at 60hz -- and support for the 21x9 aspect ratio, for example."

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118064455/


I just did the update on my 2 Denons and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again if they came out with a 2.0 upgrade board. I don't really need any more audio channels but I do want better support for 4K TVs as I'll be ready to get one next year if they make one big enough at a price I can justify.
 
#27 ·
Since the current pre/pro's and or AVR's around $750+ already handle 4K video, what does HDMI 2.0 in the real world really offer that is not currently available? Are 32 channels of audio really important to 99% of the people out there. I would bet 9/10 audio/video purchasers have never heard of AVS Forum and HDMI 2.0 will not effect 90%+ of video/audio purchasers. I'm looking to buy a Denon 4000 or Onkyo 929 and I'm trying to decide why I would wait for HDMI 2.0 and another six months before I buy. I've had my Sony TA-E 9000ES for 6-7 years so maybe I should wait since I keep purchases for quite a while! I do have a front projector, and will be buying a 4K projector in the next few years, but it seems the current pre/pros/AVR's already handle 4K video with the current HDMI.


In the real world, what will HDMI 2.0 do for me that can't now be done with the current HDMI spec. Is HDMI 2.0 more for the future than anything that can be currently used with it now?
 
#28 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken7258  /t/1455231/hdmi-2-0#post_23701368


Since the current pre/pro's and or AVR's around $750+ already handle 4K video, what does HDMI 2.0 in the real world really offer that is not currently available? Are 32 channels of audio really important to 99% of the people out there. I would bet 9/10 audio/video purchasers have never heard of AVS Forum and HDMI 2.0 will not effect 90%+ of video/audio purchasers. I'm looking to buy a Denon 4000 or Onkyo 929 and I'm trying to decide why I would wait for HDMI 2.0 and another six months before I buy. I've had my Sony TA-E 9000ES for 6-7 years so maybe I should wait since I keep purchases for quite a while! I do have a front projector, and will be buying a 4K projector in the next few years, but it seems the current pre/pros/AVR's already handle 4K video with the current HDMI.


In the real world, what will HDMI 2.0 do for me that can't now be done with the current HDMI spec. Is HDMI 2.0 more for the future than anything that can be currently used with it now?
How does a AVR change against the following:
  • 4K@50/60, (2160p), which is 4 times the clarity of 1080p/60 video resolution
  • Up to 32 audio channels for a multi-dimensional immersive audio experience
  • Up to 1536kHz audio sample frequency for the highest audio fidelity


We have yet to see any broadcaster provides 4k content especially at 60 Hz. Look at the Hobbit shown in 48 Hz, not loved. You'll will see 20 Mbps 4k (24hz) streams early on, a HDMI 1.4b compliant AVR is fine with that.


The 32 audio channels sounds a lot like Dolby Atmos although that is for the theaters and can provide audio for up to 64 speakers. But yes extreme excess for a home theater application.


We had recent discussion about the benefits of 192 Khz 24 bit audio files, but now I suppose some would ask if a higher sample frequency (1536 kHz) would make any difference. This is way beyond any useful home/computer application IMHO. I imagine the file size would be huge.



IMHO in the real world nothing in this new specification will impact you in the immediate future.
 
#29 ·
Up to 1536kHz audio sample frequency for the highest audio fidelity


This is a very misleading statement. forget that the human ear cannot distinguish above 44.4Khz.

This figure is conjured up by using the 8 channel support at 192Khz. Pure marketing hype using big numbers again.


The question I want answers to but cannot find anywhere in the early specs is does HDMI 2 support 10/12bit colour at 4k 50/60hz?
 
#30 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by N00b_101  /t/1455231/hdmi-2-0#post_23702459


Up to 1536kHz audio sample frequency for the highest audio fidelity


This is a very misleading statement. forget that the human ear cannot distinguish above 44.4Khz.

This figure is conjured up by using the 8 channel support at 192Khz. Pure marketing hype using big numbers again.


The question I want answers to but cannot find anywhere in the early specs is does HDMI 2 support 10/12bit colour at 4k 50/60hz?
Most humans can not hear above 20Khz but that has nothing to do with why we have currently 41,44,96 and 192 KHz for audio files now whether the listener can hear a difference between them depends.
 
#31 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech  /t/1455231/hdmi-2-0#post_23702480


Most humans can not hear above 20Khz but that has nothing to do with why we have currently 41,44,96 and 192 KHz for audio files now whether the listener can hear a difference between them depends.


My bad oztech, the sentence should have read the human ear cannot distinguish sampling above 44.4Khz. Its been a long afternoon at work.

I understand that the higher sample rates are used to preserve waveforms in the studio. As to whether the listner can actually distinguish in a blind test what the sample rate is, is audiophile territory and im not going there.

I'm just very annoyed of the massive missed opportunity for CE industry to adopt display port or some variant. I can predict a future with HDMI 2.0, 2.1, 2.2 .........and we all know how that went.

Time to look into getting some timeless mono-block amps for my theatre and just update the receiver for each new variant i guess (8k?). I'm over the upgradeites these CE company's love to force on us because there sales are falling.
 
#33 ·
So if I'm reading this right, 1.4 HDMI will do 4K but not at 50-60 HZ so anything fast moving (sports, auto racing etc.) would be jittery. If that's true, I'd wait for 2.0 because I'll never fall into the upgraditis trap. I try and keep my equipment for years. It seems with 7.1/9.1/11.1 already out and all the new codecs that are now out, HDMI 2.0 would be nice to have and with all previously mentioned, would really future proof your sysytem for years.
 
#34 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken7258  /t/1455231/hdmi-2-0/30#post_23703258


So if I'm reading this right, 1.4 HDMI will do 4K but not at 50-60 HZ so anything fast moving (sports, auto racing etc.) would be jittery. If that's true, I'd wait for 2.0 because I'll never fall into the upgraditis trap. I try and keep my equipment for years. It seems with 7.1/9.1/11.1 already out and all the new codecs that are now out, HDMI 2.0 would be nice to have and with all previously mentioned, would really future proof your sysytem for years.

If I'm understanding this correctly, full 1080p @ 24Hz requires 16 Mbps. My local cable company would have a hard to pushing that to most of their customers, let alone 4K content at 24Hz or more. So for cable and sports I wouldn't worry about 4K content for a long time.
 
#35 ·
The fact of the matter is UHDTV content is coming, simple as that. The gear has to necessarily precede it. The AVRs will. The sources will. The displays/projectors will (and already have). So then, here arrives the HDMI spec.


After the 2.0 AVRs become avail (although really not necessary), all one needs is a display (again, already here), a "blu ray" source that yields 4k (HAS to arrive soon), to watch 4K. Plenty will latch on. Including ME on the PJ front when they become "affordable" for us mere mortals in the next few years.


James
 
#36 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code  /t/1455231/hdmi-2-0#post_23206170


The 4K hardware may start to be available...

But no content.... 😡


Just my $0.02... 👍😉

Actually Sony has 4k streaming, new games support much higher res than 1080p, medical offices use higher res video and images, plenty of cameras support higher res, some sports channels are prepping for higher res and even 1080p content can look better when upscaled on a GOOD upscaler.


Just my 2 cents.
 
#37 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryWA  /t/1455231/hdmi-2-0#post_22898828


Maybe I'm being a little pessimistic, but I can't see a big 4k TV reasonably priced anywhere in the next 3 years.


Not to mention no 4K content.

Reasonable is a very relative term - http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/06/lg-77-inch-curved-uhd-oled/ $15,000 for a 77" UHD OLED seems quite reasonable when compared to this years prices on much smaller non 4k OLED TVs. However the right price point for me is an 80" 4K OLED and under $9,000 (of course if 85" was available at the price, I wouldn't complain). I could see that happening within 2 years.
 
#39 ·
I already have my money on Onkyo's top models to include it....the 10xx, 30xx. and 50xx. They (Onkyo) have never delayed their top AVR announcement this long and I don't readily see much of a reason for it (the delay) outside of throwing 2.0 into them. We'll see what develops.


James
 
#40 ·
Before we get too enthused about "easy firmware updates to HDMI 2.0" or "how soon new HDMI 2.0 capable AVRs might appear", it's probably worth re-reading some of the HDMI 1.4 FAQs...

Quote:
" Are manufacturers required to implement all of the new HDMI 1.4 features? (link)


No. HDMI technology is designed to enable a wide variety of manufacturers in different markets to implement the feature sets that work best for their customers."
Quote:
" How will I know which HDMI 1.4 features are implemented in a device? (link)


Shop for the specific features that interest you, rather than shopping for an HDMI version number and assuming that a certain feature is supported. Since many of the capabilities detailed in the HDMI 1.4 specification are optional implementations, it’s the responsibility of the manufacturer to tell you what features are supported in any given device."
_
 
#41 ·
There's a 99.9% chance that the first AVRs containing it will arrive in the next 2-9 months. My loose understanding of the "firmware upgradeable" devices is that they are "really" 2.0 hardware equipped and were simply shipped "non 2.0" until the spec was ratified and will be "updatable" at some point. I seriously doubt any avr will be included in this arena, but only some of the very recently released mega-buck 4K televisions and projectors.



James
 
#43 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguyjake  /t/1455231/hdmi-2-0/30#post_24291013


Anyone aware of a new AVR with HDMI 2.0?

Well, the Emotiva XMC-1 is shipping in 2 weeks with HDMI 2.0. If you are willing to drop $2k on a pre/pro (or $1199 with a discount card). Throw in a UMC-500 and you got yourself an HDMI 2.0 AVR, albeit at flagship AVR pricing.
 
#44 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warder45  /t/1455231/hdmi-2-0/30#post_23703769

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken7258  /t/1455231/hdmi-2-0/30#post_23703258


So if I'm reading this right, 1.4 HDMI will do 4K but not at 50-60 HZ so anything fast moving (sports, auto racing etc.) would be jittery. If that's true, I'd wait for 2.0 because I'll never fall into the upgraditis trap. I try and keep my equipment for years. It seems with 7.1/9.1/11.1 already out and all the new codecs that are now out, HDMI 2.0 would be nice to have and with all previously mentioned, would really future proof your sysytem for years.

If I'm understanding this correctly, full 1080p @ 24Hz requires 16 Mbps. My local cable company would have a hard to pushing that to most of their customers, let alone 4K content at 24Hz or more. So for cable and sports I wouldn't worry about 4K content for a long time.


The new HVEC file compression technology claims to be able to change the math for bitrates:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57501769-93/new-hevc-video-compression-wins-big-over-todays-standard/


"A new compression technology represents a significant improvement over today's standard, a new study found. The result could help pave the way for video with at least four times the pixels of today's 1080p standard."


Did you include this in your bitrate estimate?
 
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