$600 range receiver suggestions - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 28 Old 02-02-2013, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TL24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I'm in the market for a new receiver, I currently own the Onkyo 808 but the cost of repair after repair is getting to be too much. I'm so disappointed with Onkyo that I'm ready to jump ship!

With that said, what do you experts recommend for me? My budget is around $600 but I may go up to $700 if its worth it. My setup consists of the Def. Tech 1000 series speakers - any input would be greatly appreciated!!!


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
TL24 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 Old 02-03-2013, 12:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
4DHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: sierra ecuadoriana
Posts: 5,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 63
The HK AVR2650, 3650, 2600, 3600. On amazon from $500~650
4DHD is offline  
post #3 of 28 Old 02-03-2013, 01:16 PM
Senior Member
 
GaryWA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Washington State
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
GaryWA is offline  
post #4 of 28 Old 02-04-2013, 09:07 AM
Member
 
STSinNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I second Gary's reco of the Pioneer SC-1222. Very good sound quality, drives our ADS 710 4 ohm speakers just fine, lots of features. They have been selling it for $550-600 for most of the last 6 weeks, keep an eye on their site daily.
STSinNYC is offline  
post #5 of 28 Old 02-04-2013, 12:51 PM
 
Ricsim78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
There are quite a few good receivers within that price range. I think the best option right now is the Pioneer SC-1222, simply because it is usually a higher money receiver and the same as the near $800.00 Pioneer Elite SC-61 (sans 12V triggers for external amps and the display color is different). The D3 amps sound good and are very efficient. The problem with the SC-1222 is the fact Newegg's prices are varying between $599.99 to $1099.99 and everyday it seems like it is a different price.

Go to http://www.accessories4less.com and you will see you have many options for refurbished units (highly recommend if you want the best receiver for your buck). Here is my take on the receiver maker strengths and weaknesses. I have owned Pioneer, Onkyo, Denon, and Yamaha and my friends have every other brand you can think of so I have heard them all and used them.

Denon: (recommended for a good all around receiver with few flaws)
Pros:
  • Good bang for buck
  • Nice looking receivers
  • Good sound quality and good for both Movies and Music
  • Audessey
  • Nice on screen displays
  • I find them easy to use
Cons:
  • Does not sound as good as Marantz or upper level Pioneers
  • The newer models give new features but take features away instead of just adding features
  • Only the higher end models give you video upconversion (but think this changed in 2013 to where mid level and up have it)

Sound signature: Laid back, articulate, smooth

Recommended model: Refurbished Denon 2313 from Accessories4less.com


Pioneer: (recommended if you want to learn the receiver and tweak the sound)
Pros:
  • Good sound quality with powerful amplification. D3 amp (in recent SC models) models sound better and are better with low OHM speakers than most receivers.
  • Lots of nice features included
  • Good for both movies and music
  • Nice looking receivers (I think they look best)
  • In my experience very reliable (my dad still owns and uses a VSX 522 I bought about 12 years ago and it is still going strong with zero issues).
  • MCACC is my personal favorite room correction. It does not EQ the sub but you can tweak everything after it is done, which is my favorite part. Plus there is no roll off like there is with Audessey.
Cons:
  • Only 1 universal crossover setting abilty with speakers (inability to select different crossover for main/center/surround/back surround speakers)
  • Expensive add on modules needed in some cases (Bluetooth, etc.)
  • Complicated setup and remote control (you have to learn Pioneer language)
  • More primitive looking onscreen GUI
  • MCACC unable to EQ the subwoofer (but you can do it yourself)
  • Poor instructions (written in Pioneerese)

Sound signature: D3 amps: Detailed, warm, airy, balanced , dynamic
Regular amps: warm, articulate, dynamic

Recommended models: Pioneer SC-1222 from Newegg.com (if it is on sale for $600.00) check prices daily.
Pioneer Elite SC-61 (if you can stretch your budget a bit) from Amazon.com
Pioneer VSX-1122k (if you want good sound and nice features for less money. No D3 amps though.


Onkyo: (recommended if you use it for mostly movies or you want the best features for your money spent, just watch the issues!)
Pros:
  • Best bang for buck
  • Most features for price paid
  • Strongest Amp section of all receivers (rates closest to it's advertised spec)
  • Usually THX certified with the mid range models and has a better version of Audessey (than the equivilant Denon in the same price range)
  • The best for movies
  • Good on screen menus and maybe the easiest to operate.
Cons:
  • Reliability issues
  • Onkyo support is the worst in my experience
  • Ugliest receiver (no WAF points if you have a wife)
  • Some have frame stutter issues and Onkyo is slow or passive about fixing such features
  • Not as good as music

Sound signature: Dynamic, clean, clear, clinical

Recommended models: Onkyo TX-NR809 from Accessories4less.com
Onkyo TX-NR818 (if you can stretch your budget a bit) from Accessories4less.com


Yamaha: (Recommended if the features you want most are solid video and audio performance with surround sound modes)
Pros:
  • Almost as feature packed as Onkyo
  • Best surround sound modes and directional audio
  • Good all around for music and movies
  • YPAO auto correction system is highly regarded by most
  • Good on screen menus
  • Very good USB DACS used (Burr Browns typical)
Cons:
  • Only 1 universal crossover setting abilty with speakers (inability to select different crossover for main/center/surround/back surround speakers)
  • Weakest amp power (usually bench lowest vs their advertised spec)
  • Cheaper models can sound bright (you do not want to pair a cheap Yamaha and Klipsch speakers together)
  • Some may find their sound quality not as "exciting" as the other brands but upper models sound very, very good.
  • YPAO does not EQ the subwoofer

Sound signature: Natural, airy, precise (some may sound bright)

Recommended model: Yamaha RX-A720 from amazon.com


Marantz: (Music powerhouse if sound quality is top notch priority and equally good with movies)
Pros:
  • Rivals Pioneer SC (D3 amps) for sound quality
  • Good all around receiver that is dedicated for music playback quality
  • Made by D+M Holdings (same maker as Denon)
  • Audessey
  • Good on screen menus
  • Very nice looking units which look unique compared to other receivers. HIGH WAF
Cons:
  • Usually not as feature packed as the equivilant Denon (but will sound better)
  • Your wife/GF/domestic partner will wonder what the heck you bought!

Sound signature: Warm, dynamic, smooth, musical (warmer than Denon)

Recommended model: Marantz SR5007

I hope this helps, of course this is mostly facts mixed with a little bit of opinion but most would consider me knowledgable in this kind of information and I did my best to not be biased. Also you will hear others say the same as me if you look at reviews of said models. In any case, with any of the above models you would be getting good sound quality and great features so you cannot go far wrong.
javygonx likes this.
Ricsim78 is offline  
post #6 of 28 Old 02-04-2013, 01:15 PM
Senior Member
 
dborgill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 13
So if my only concern is sufficient power and quality for powering 4 OHM speakers, which would you recommend overall in this price range? I use it mostly for movies but some Blu-Ray concerts as well..

TV: Panasonic Plasma 65" TC-P65S64
Receiver: Pioneer SC-1222-K
Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S590
Speakers: MK Sound M-7 / M4-T
Sub: MK Sound SB-12
dborgill is offline  
post #7 of 28 Old 02-04-2013, 10:27 PM
 
Ricsim78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Well, I think any of the above would power 4 OHM speakers but the Pioneer SC series with the D3 amps are your best bet for 4 OHM loads. They are certified to run them without special modes or what not. All of them have quality and I already outlined general pros and cons of each. The Onkyo would be a good match for you if you want to have big power and movies are your priority but any of the above would likely make you very happy. The best thing to do is look over what I wrote, pick 2 that have the strengths you want, and then research them yourself.

As I said, you really cannot do far wrong but ideally you want the receiver that has the strengths you want most. For movies I really feel Onkyo is your best bet, plus if you get the Onkyo 818 they fixed the 24 FPS bug in a new firmware update (finally). For the price it is hard to beat it, if power and movie playback is your concern. Onkyo's used to run very hot but they wised up and added active cooling so reliability increased.

Another word of advice: Denon and 4 OHM loads (from what I have heard) are not a good match. I cannot confrim or deny this as I never ran 4 OHM speakers with mine.

My advice: Pick 2, compare them directly, factor in price, go for it. Goodluck and hope I helped you (along with everyone else). But Onkyo would lilkely be your choice here.
Ricsim78 is offline  
post #8 of 28 Old 02-04-2013, 11:28 PM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 44,463
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 1505
As suggested in the Denon AVR-XX13 Owner's thread linked in my sig, the Denon 2113CI is the best bang for the buck model and can currently be had on sale under your budget as noted in the Great Deals forum new with full 3 year mfr warranty.

Re: Denon and Marantz models
Although Denon and Marantz AVRs are designed to work with 6-16 ohm speakers, at moderate volume levels there should be no issue with 4-ohm speakers. When comparing Denon and Marantz models at the same model level with the same version of Audyssey, there should be no real difference in audio quality.

Re: Onkyo models
Although Onkyo models generally offer more features at the same price point when compared to D&M models, with the exception of the new 818 which offers the highest level of Audyssey MultEQ XT32, the 717 and lower models only offer the very lowest version of Audyssey 2EQ which in addition to having anywhere from 2-8x fewer speaker EQ control points than either the MultEQ or MultEQ XT featured on the same level Denon and Marantz AVRs, it also cannot EQ the sub. The lowest version on any Denon or Marantz model is MultEQ (Denon 1613 and Marantz 1403).

---------------------------------
"JD" –
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - Authorized dealer AVRs, Speakers, etc. 

Mon - Fri: 10am – 10pm EST (Sat/Sun too if you leave message)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Def Tech, Atlantic Tech, Parasound
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #9 of 28 Old 02-04-2013, 11:45 PM
 
Ricsim78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As suggested in the Denon AVR-XX13 Owner's thread linked in my sig, the Denon 2113CI is the best bang for the buck model and can currently be had on sale under your budget as noted in the Great Deals forum new with full 3 year mfr warranty.

Re: Denon and Marantz models
Although Denon and Marantz AVRs are designed to work with 6-16 ohm speakers, at moderate volume levels there should be no issue with 4-ohm speakers. When comparing Denon and Marantz models at the same model level with the same version of Audyssey, there should be no real difference in audio quality.

Re: Onkyo models
Although Onkyo models generally offer more features at the same price point when compared to D&M models, with the exception of the new 818 which offers the highest level of Audyssey MultEQ XT32, the 717 and lower models only offer the very lowest version of Audyssey 2EQ which in addition to having anywhere from 2-8x fewer speaker EQ control points than either the MultEQ or MultEQ XT featured on the same level Denon and Marantz AVRs, it also cannot EQ the sub. The lowest version on any Denon or Marantz model is MultEQ (Denon 1613 and Marantz 1403).

I disagree and I have a say-so because I owned a Denon 2112 and a Marantz SR5006. Feature wise the Denon came out on top, Marantz killed the Denon with better music quality (with or without room correction). The Marantz also seemed to go a tad louder at lower volume levels but there was a definite sound signature difference. I kept the 2112 because the Marantz at the time was more money and it had slightly less features. Both with the exact same speaker setup, same crossover points, etc. The Marantz was more musical and dynamic, the Denon more laid back. My GF, friends, and parents heard them and even my passive GF told me she liked the Marantz better.

They also sound different than my Pioneer SC-1222 and my Pioneer VSX-516. In fact even the Pioneers sound vastly different than each other. This is also with or without room correction on (VSX-516 does not have an auto calibration system). I have owned Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer, Denon, Marantz, and no 2 sounded alike.

No matter what anyone says, no receiver is going to sound alike, even different models of the same maker. For example, Yamaha lower end models sound brighter than their higher priced models. If they all sound the same, get a pair of Klipsch speakers and a cheap Yamaha. Your ears will bleed! A low end Denon would sound much smoother and more laid back with those same Klipsch. It is impossible for receivers to sound the same. Even the difference in the USB DAC used alone is going to give a different flavor to the sound signature. The nay sayers will nay say but I consider it funny they say they all sound the same. If they did we would all be buying $200.00 receivers and calling it a day. There is no way a $200.00 Onkyo is going to sound the same as a $1000 Onkyo. Add in room correction differences, different amp setups, signal paths, capacitors, and so many hundreds of variables and unless you have weak ears, you will hear a difference. I know I do!

Edit: You are correct about the Onkyo only having 2EQ unless you step up into the higher end models. I forgot about that caveat but it is truth. That is why stepping up to the Onkyo 818 would be a good idea (MultiEQ XT32 is the best Audessey and highest level of room correction made at this price point.) I will add that to my cons for Onkyo.
Ricsim78 is offline  
post #10 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 05:59 AM
Senior Member
 
dborgill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricsim78 View Post

Well, I think any of the above would power 4 OHM speakers but the Pioneer SC series with the D3 amps are your best bet for 4 OHM loads. They are certified to run them without special modes or what not. All of them have quality and I already outlined general pros and cons of each. The Onkyo would be a good match for you if you want to have big power and movies are your priority but any of the above would likely make you very happy. The best thing to do is look over what I wrote, pick 2 that have the strengths you want, and then research them yourself.

As I said, you really cannot do far wrong but ideally you want the receiver that has the strengths you want most. For movies I really feel Onkyo is your best bet, plus if you get the Onkyo 818 they fixed the 24 FPS bug in a new firmware update (finally). For the price it is hard to beat it, if power and movie playback is your concern. Onkyo's used to run very hot but they wised up and added active cooling so reliability increased.

Another word of advice: Denon and 4 OHM loads (from what I have heard) are not a good match. I cannot confrim or deny this as I never ran 4 OHM speakers with mine.

My advice: Pick 2, compare them directly, factor in price, go for it. Goodluck and hope I helped you (along with everyone else). But Onkyo would lilkely be your choice here.

Thanks for this advice. It is much appreciated. I have always considered Onkyo one of the cheap/crappy brands but it seems their midrange models have gotten much nicer. I current own a Marantz SR4003 and it has been AWESOME for movies and concert Blu-Rays but their newest models don't seem to be that impressive for powering 4 OHM speakers.

Hmmm.. do I jump on this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117412R

It seems I can return it if I am not satisfied although it would probably cost $50+ to ship back rolleyes.gif

Also, is there any good store/method of "testing" receivers? I want to be honest but I don't want to spend $600+ and then be stuck with something that doesn't fit my needs. I'd say Best Buy has the best return policy but I think their receiver selection is limited to low end stuff.

TV: Panasonic Plasma 65" TC-P65S64
Receiver: Pioneer SC-1222-K
Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S590
Speakers: MK Sound M-7 / M4-T
Sub: MK Sound SB-12
dborgill is offline  
post #11 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 06:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
XStanleyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by dborgill View Post

Thanks for this advice. It is much appreciated. I have always considered Onkyo one of the cheap/crappy brands but it seems their midrange models have gotten much nicer. I current own a Marantz SR4003 and it has been AWESOME for movies and concert Blu-Rays but their newest models don't seem to be that impressive for powering 4 OHM speakers.

Hmmm.. do I jump on this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117412R

It seems I can return it if I am not satisfied although it would probably cost $50+ to ship back rolleyes.gif

Also, is there any good store/method of "testing" receivers? I want to be honest but I don't want to spend $600+ and then be stuck with something that doesn't fit my needs. I'd say Best Buy has the best return policy but I think their receiver selection is limited to low end stuff.

Bestbuy does carry that receiver. At least the one in my area does. I had it for a few days and returned it for a different receiver. You can check their web site to see if they are in stock at your local BB.

Denon AVR4311CI
Magnepan 2.7QR's w/ MGCC3 Center
(2) Polk RT15i
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Behringer NU3000 & NU4-6000 Amps
Panasonic DMP-BDP210 - Projector: BenQ W1070
Panamax M5400-PM
60" Samsung TV
WDTV Live & Minix Neo X7
Some audio history:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
XStanleyX is offline  
post #12 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 06:41 AM
Senior Member
 
dborgill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Why did you return the receiver?

TV: Panasonic Plasma 65" TC-P65S64
Receiver: Pioneer SC-1222-K
Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S590
Speakers: MK Sound M-7 / M4-T
Sub: MK Sound SB-12
dborgill is offline  
post #13 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 06:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
XStanleyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by dborgill View Post

Why did you return the receiver?

I didn't care for MCACC vs. Audyssey XT. Some folks like it but I don't. You may or may not depending on weather you've had experience with both.

Denon AVR4311CI
Magnepan 2.7QR's w/ MGCC3 Center
(2) Polk RT15i
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Behringer NU3000 & NU4-6000 Amps
Panasonic DMP-BDP210 - Projector: BenQ W1070
Panamax M5400-PM
60" Samsung TV
WDTV Live & Minix Neo X7
Some audio history:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
XStanleyX is offline  
post #14 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 07:02 AM
Senior Member
 
dborgill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

I didn't care for MCACC vs. Audyssey XT. Some folks like it but I don't. You may or may not depending on weather you've had experience with both.

I am assuming you are talking auto calibration? If so, the ONLY decent receiver I have had is this Marantz SR4003 and it has a weak auto calibration that sets everything to a strange level.

TV: Panasonic Plasma 65" TC-P65S64
Receiver: Pioneer SC-1222-K
Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S590
Speakers: MK Sound M-7 / M4-T
Sub: MK Sound SB-12
dborgill is offline  
post #15 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 07:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
XStanleyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1262
You might check your local BB/ Magnolia for open box receivers. You still get the full warranty and have 30 days to return it if you don't like it. One member scored a Denon 3312 for under 5 bills. Closer to 4 bills if I recall correctly. You can check the web site below but I know it doesn't stay very current with their stock so they may have something that is not listed.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Clearance/Deals-Near-Me/pcmcat254400050000.c?id=pcmcat254400050000&DPSLogout=true&_requestid=137398&isLogout=true&ci_src=11138&AID=10474050&PID=4003003&SID=1et7lr6zcv0gu&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bestbuy.com%2Fsite%2FClearance%2FDeals-Near-Me%2Fpcmcat254400050000.c%3Fid%3Dpcmcat254400050000%26DPSLogout%3Dtrue%26_requestid%3D137398%26isLogout%3Dtrue%26ci_src%3D11138&ref=39&CJPID=4003003&loc=01

Denon AVR4311CI
Magnepan 2.7QR's w/ MGCC3 Center
(2) Polk RT15i
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Behringer NU3000 & NU4-6000 Amps
Panasonic DMP-BDP210 - Projector: BenQ W1070
Panamax M5400-PM
60" Samsung TV
WDTV Live & Minix Neo X7
Some audio history:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
XStanleyX is offline  
post #16 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 07:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
XStanleyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by dborgill View Post

I am assuming you are talking auto calibration? If so, the ONLY decent receiver I have had is this Marantz SR4003 and it has a weak auto calibration that sets everything to a strange level.

That receiver does not have Audyssey XT. That receiver is a 5 year old model.

Denon AVR4311CI
Magnepan 2.7QR's w/ MGCC3 Center
(2) Polk RT15i
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Behringer NU3000 & NU4-6000 Amps
Panasonic DMP-BDP210 - Projector: BenQ W1070
Panamax M5400-PM
60" Samsung TV
WDTV Live & Minix Neo X7
Some audio history:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
XStanleyX is offline  
post #17 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 07:19 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,381
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 747 Post(s)
Liked: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by dborgill View Post

So if my only concern is sufficient power and quality for powering 4 OHM speakers, which would you recommend overall in this price range? I use it mostly for movies but some Blu-Ray concerts as well..

I know of no reason why any reasonble mainstream AVR would have problems with 4 ohm speakers.

It is true that many AVRs are rated for 6 ohms as the lowest impedance but that has very limited relevance to real world use with music and speakers. Due to federal regulations in the USA AVR ratings must be based on bench tests with pure tones and resistive loads. It is easy to show (and I have done so recently in several threads) that even hypercompressed music and any reasonable real world speaker requires far less of the AVR's power supply than the bench test.
arnyk is offline  
post #18 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 07:55 AM
Senior Member
 
dborgill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I know of no reason why any reasonble mainstream AVR would have problems with 4 ohm speakers.

It is true that many AVRs are rated for 6 ohms as the lowest impedance but that has very limited relevance to real world use with music and speakers. Due to federal regulations in the USA AVR ratings must be based on bench tests with pure tones and resistive loads. It is easy to show (and I have done so recently in several threads) that even hypercompressed music and any reasonable real world speaker requires far less of the AVR's power supply than the bench test.

Thanks for this info. Do you think that upgrading my 5 year old Marantz SR4003 wouldn't be beneficial then?

TV: Panasonic Plasma 65" TC-P65S64
Receiver: Pioneer SC-1222-K
Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S590
Speakers: MK Sound M-7 / M4-T
Sub: MK Sound SB-12
dborgill is offline  
post #19 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 08:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
XStanleyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1262
For me the time to upgrade a receiver is if you want any new features your current one does not have. Such as Audyssey XT for example.

Denon AVR4311CI
Magnepan 2.7QR's w/ MGCC3 Center
(2) Polk RT15i
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Behringer NU3000 & NU4-6000 Amps
Panasonic DMP-BDP210 - Projector: BenQ W1070
Panamax M5400-PM
60" Samsung TV
WDTV Live & Minix Neo X7
Some audio history:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
XStanleyX is offline  
post #20 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 08:17 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,381
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 747 Post(s)
Liked: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by dborgill View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I know of no reason why any reasonble mainstream AVR would have problems with 4 ohm speakers.

It is true that many AVRs are rated for 6 ohms as the lowest impedance but that has very limited relevance to real world use with music and speakers. Due to federal regulations in the USA AVR ratings must be based on bench tests with pure tones and resistive loads. It is easy to show (and I have done so recently in several threads) that even hypercompressed music and any reasonable real world speaker requires far less of the AVR's power supply than the bench test.

Thanks for this info. Do you think that upgrading my 5 year old Marantz SR4003 wouldn't be beneficial then?

The big advantage to AVRs built recently has been the quality of the HDMI support and near global inclusion of automated system tuning facilities such as Audyssey, MCACC and YPAO. I would expect that a 5 year old AVR is not yet suffering from dryed out electrolytics, and the like.
arnyk is offline  
post #21 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 08:13 PM
 
Ricsim78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Modern receivers have features that older ones did not: Here is a list of some things that seem to be the norm nowdays:
  • HDMI switching
  • Video upscaling (with 2013 most have 4K upscaling which may come handy IF 4K TV's become available at affordable rates before you want to upgrade to a newer receiver)
  • On screen displays (getting better and better over time)
  • Apple/Android streaming
  • Network streaming
  • Apps like Spotify and such
  • Ability to control the receivers with Apple/Android phones and tablets
  • USB DACS of higher quality
  • USB for MP3/Smart phone/Tablet playback
  • Front height/front wide speaker ability
  • Room correction systems getting better and better and more advanced


Or course this is far from a complete list but if you feel your old receiver is missing these features and you want them, it's time to buy a new receiver.
Ricsim78 is offline  
post #22 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 08:35 PM
Senior Member
 
MNaudioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
That guy would be me lol. I got a open box deal at bby on a 3312 for 405. I suggest looking at local magnolia open box deals. They list them on their site. You could find a diamond in the rough. I too was close to getting the 1222k
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

You might check your local BB/ Magnolia for open box receivers. You still get the full warranty and have 30 days to return it if you don't like it. One member scored a Denon 3312 for under 5 bills. Closer to 4 bills if I recall correctly. You can check the web site below but I know it doesn't stay very current with their stock so they may have something that is not listed.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Clearance/Deals-Near-Me/pcmcat254400050000.c?id=pcmcat254400050000&DPSLogout=true&_requestid=137398&isLogout=true&ci_src=11138&AID=10474050&PID=4003003&SID=1et7lr6zcv0gu&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bestbuy.com%2Fsite%2FClearance%2FDeals-Near-Me%2Fpcmcat254400050000.c%3Fid%3Dpcmcat254400050000%26DPSLogout%3Dtrue%26_requestid%3D137398%26isLogout%3Dtrue%26ci_src%3D11138&ref=39&CJPID=4003003&loc=01
MNaudioguy is offline  
post #23 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 08:58 PM
Senior Member
 
dborgill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Well, just ran into an Onkyo TX-NR809 used for $550 or the Pioneer SC-1222-K is back on Newegg for $550..

Final thoughts before I order the 1222-K?

TV: Panasonic Plasma 65" TC-P65S64
Receiver: Pioneer SC-1222-K
Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S590
Speakers: MK Sound M-7 / M4-T
Sub: MK Sound SB-12
dborgill is offline  
post #24 of 28 Old 02-05-2013, 09:28 PM
Senior Member
 
dborgill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Pulled the trigger -- Ordered the Pioneer SC-1222-K New for $549 shipped. Wish me luck!

TV: Panasonic Plasma 65" TC-P65S64
Receiver: Pioneer SC-1222-K
Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S590
Speakers: MK Sound M-7 / M4-T
Sub: MK Sound SB-12
dborgill is offline  
post #25 of 28 Old 02-06-2013, 05:41 AM
Member
 
Vijaychan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi there,
Please share experience with Pioneer once you have it.
Ricsim78,
Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge and detailed info on different receivers.
I bought a Mirage OS3 sat and yamaha rx-a720. After some tweaking, I felt not enough sound from the speakers and often my listening frequency at -20db or more when compared to my friend's Denon at -50 to -40db. Not sure whether its common in all Yamaha receivers as i was told by many. I felt something wrong and found out the speakers are display model and not new. Not sure how far its differ in sound and these speakers were in display for the past 4years. I have planned to return it now. Please let me know your thoughts on this and whether its worth to keep it. I was also told that these Mirage OS3s are discontinued.
Thanks for your response.
Vijaychan is offline  
post #26 of 28 Old 02-07-2013, 09:09 AM
 
Ricsim78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vijaychan View Post

Hi there,
Please share experience with Pioneer once you have it.
Ricsim78,
Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge and detailed info on different receivers.
I bought a Mirage OS3 sat and yamaha rx-a720. After some tweaking, I felt not enough sound from the speakers and often my listening frequency at -20db or more when compared to my friend's Denon at -50 to -40db. Not sure whether its common in all Yamaha receivers as i was told by many. I felt something wrong and found out the speakers are display model and not new. Not sure how far its differ in sound and these speakers were in display for the past 4years. I have planned to return it now. Please let me know your thoughts on this and whether its worth to keep it. I was also told that these Mirage OS3s are discontinued.
Thanks for your response.

No problem, I am glad to help.

Those Mirage OS3 are not terribly efficient so you will likely need to drive them a little higher to get the volume you want. Your speakers are rated at 89dB. For comparison a speaker like Klipsch has a 93dB efficiency.

Another thing about Yamaha is they are very nice receivers, but unless you go into their highest end models, they rate lowest vs their rated spec.

So not terribly efficient speakers plus good but not great output power = having to crank the receiver louder.

Discontinued speakers that have been on the shelf for 4 years? I would not keep them unless you got a really good deal on them, but if they are discontinued you will have issues if you try and find parts for them.
Ricsim78 is offline  
post #27 of 28 Old 02-10-2013, 08:44 AM
Member
 
Vijaychan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for your response Ricsim78...

I have returned the speakers and receivers. I'm back in the hunt for them and will have more time to test and buy this time.

Those OS3 were release on Mar'10 and its been in display since then which is almost 3 years. Surprisingly no one mentioned about OS3 Sat's discontinuity. End up in contacting Mirage and they mentioned its being produced in limited quantity in USA and not available in Canada. Now that I'm reading more about speakers and receivers and the required config, I'll be able to get the one needed.

Your vast knowledge helped me in right decision and look for what's needed.

Thanks again.

Regards,
Vijaychan is offline  
post #28 of 28 Old 02-10-2013, 01:20 PM
Member
 
CleatusCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricsim78 View Post


If they all sound the same, get a pair of Klipsch speakers and a cheap Yamaha. Your ears will bleed!

I had a friend that had the Mirage nano sat and low end Yamaha. The sound was so tinny and harsh, especially at loud volume levels. I couldn't stand being in the same room for very long. Last I heard, he added a pair of cheap Kilpsch towers! rolleyes.gifbiggrin.gif

Xbox Live- RumRiverKiller
HT Room- Samsung 550 64" Plasma, Tivo XL, Marantz SR-14 EX , BP3000TLs, CLR3000, BP2002 sides, Logitech 700
Music Room- Samsung 650 46" LCD, Tivo, Pioneer VSX-1120K , Canton GLE 409s, small cheap sub, Logitech 650
Garage- Kenwood VR606, Original Large Avents
CleatusCat is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Onkyo Tx Nr808 , Harman Kardon Avr 2650 Audio Video Receiver , Harman Kardon Avr 1710 7 2 Channel 100 Watt Network Connected Audio Video Receiver , Harman Kardon Avr 3650 Audio Video Receiver , Harman Kardon Avr 2600 65w 7 1 Channel Home Theater Receiver Black , Pioneer Sc 1222 7 2 Channel Network Ready Av Receiver , Pioneer Vsx 522 K 5 1 Channel A V Receiver For Iphone R Ipod R Vsx 522 K
Gear in this thread - Nr808 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off