Help with my setup and choosing a receiver? :) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 02-02-2013, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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So I posted this in the speakers forum but think this might be a good place to add it as well, so copy pasta!

Goal: I'm looking to get a 3.0 system setup or possibly at a later time add a sub in for 3.1 and already have a pretty good idea of what speakers I am wanting to go with.

Problem: I need to know whyyyyyyyy there are so many receivers ranging so far in price. What the heck is the difference and what can I get away with while spending the least amount necessary. I'm not looking for something that's crap, but I've just always looked at receivers as just something everything hooks up to and don't understand how or why they get so costly. (I know, I'm ignorant to receivers).

My setup:

I think I will be going with Infinity all the way.

Center channel speaker - PC351 $ 200 on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Primus-PC351-Three-way-Center-Channel/dp/B0044D1788/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_y

2 x's Floor speakers - Infinity P363's $117 each at Fry's Electronics
http://www.frys.com/product/6878376

This brings me to about $434 and to keep me around budget of $700, about 250 ish for a receiver. Now I am flexible on price for the receiver but I saw this - http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR515-7-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B0077V88VI/ref=pd_sim_e_9 for about $300 and thought "What the hell else do I need from a receiver?"

So any help is greatly appreciated! Hope to visit the boards more often
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post #2 of 14 Old 02-03-2013, 12:17 AM
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Mostly just power, inputs, and pre-outs.

I would suggest these in your budget.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882115314
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117410
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR1613/DENON-AVR-1613-5.1ch-Networking-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-ready/1.html

The Denon is refurb, the other 2 are new. They will all work with your setup.
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post #3 of 14 Old 02-03-2013, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zowzout123 View Post

So I posted this in the speakers forum but think this might be a good place to add it as well, so copy pasta!

Goal: I'm looking to get a 3.0 system setup or possibly at a later time add a sub in for 3.1 and already have a pretty good idea of what speakers I am wanting to go with.

Problem: I need to know whyyyyyyyy there are so many receivers ranging so far in price. What the heck is the difference and what can I get away with while spending the least amount necessary. I'm not looking for something that's crap, but I've just always looked at receivers as just something everything hooks up to and don't understand how or why they get so costly. (I know, I'm ignorant to receivers).

My setup:

I think I will be going with Infinity all the way.

Center channel speaker - PC351 $ 200 on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Primus-PC351-Three-way-Center-Channel/dp/B0044D1788/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_y

2 x's Floor speakers - Infinity P363's $117 each at Fry's Electronics
http://www.frys.com/product/6878376

This brings me to about $434 and to keep me around budget of $700, about 250 ish for a receiver. Now I am flexible on price for the receiver but I saw this - http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR515-7-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B0077V88VI/ref=pd_sim_e_9 for about $300 and thought "What the hell else do I need from a receiver?"

So any help is greatly appreciated! Hope to visit the boards more often

In terms of SQ, it is probably the automated system tuning facility, such as Audyssey, MCACC, or YPAO that will be likely make the most clearly audible difference.

My own personal AVR has only manual features, but I have the test equipment, microphones, software and decades of experience to help me. You probably don't.

The top of the line seems to be Audyssey Multieq XT32, with Audyssey Multieq coming up second. I'd probably pay an extra $100 to go with the best in this area, even with what I have on hand to work with.

One other thing. I see that you don't have a subwoofer in your list. On balance I'd probably go as low as I could on the AVR and set aside the money for a low end sub such as a Polk PSW 505. Don't be deceived by floor standing speakers. The P363s are nice and a great value, but they aren't much below 60-80 Hz. The powered sub also takes a bit of load off of the AVR.
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post #4 of 14 Old 02-03-2013, 04:30 AM
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^^^ correction Arny, you forgot about Audyssey Multeq XT.

in order of amazing to meh it goes like this:
Audyssey Multeq XT32
Audyssey Multeq XT
Audyssey Multeq
Audyssey 2EQ

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #5 of 14 Old 02-03-2013, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

^^^ correction Arny, you forgot about Audyssey Multeq XT.

in order of amazing to meh it goes like this:
Audyssey Multeq XT32
Audyssey Multeq XT
Audyssey Multeq
Audyssey 2EQ

Yes I did forget that, and thanks for the correction. However it seems that even Audyssy Multieq (no extra letters) is at least competitive or better than YPAO and MCACC.
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post #6 of 14 Old 02-03-2013, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

^^^ correction Arny, you forgot about Audyssey Multeq XT.

in order of amazing to meh it goes like this:
Audyssey Multeq XT32
Audyssey Multeq XT
Audyssey Multeq
Audyssey 2EQ

Yes I did forget that, and thanks for the correction. However it seems that even Audyssy Multieq (no extra letters) is at least competitive or better than YPAO and MCACC.

in many ways it is better as it will apply eq filters to the subwoofer frequencies. I am not sure, but fairly centain that YPAO and MCACC do not (except maybe on the high end models). Aydyssey 2eq does not eq the subwoofer frequencies and would be more on par with YPAO and MCACC on most lower cost models.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #7 of 14 Old 02-03-2013, 04:47 AM
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Arny, you neglect to mention that XT32 comes in two different flavors, one that sets up two subs separately. This comes at a considerable cost. I know of no receiver's or pre-pro's with XT32 that cost $500. I know of one that costs $800 that does not setup the subs separately and apart from this one receiver's/pre-pro's with it cost a minimum of $1,500. You use false price figures to make your argument stronger. You often exaggerate when making your case including when you argue about external amps and quality/similarity of AVRs.
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post #8 of 14 Old 02-03-2013, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Also XT32 comes in two different flavors, one that sets up two subs separately. This comes at a considerable cost. I know of no receiver's or pre-pro's with XT32 that cost $500. I know of one that costs $800 that does not setup the subs separately and apart from this one receiver's/pre-pro's with it cost a minimum of $1,500. You use false price figures to make your argument stronger. You often exaggerate when making your case including when you argue about external amps and quality/similarity of AVRs.

Last time I looked, I chased down an AVR for $500-600 with XT32. I think it was a refurb. Yup, most of the AVR's with it cost big bucks but there was at least one exception the last time I played the game.
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post #9 of 14 Old 02-03-2013, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Also XT32 comes in two different flavors, one that sets up two subs separately. This comes at a considerable cost. I know of no receiver's or pre-pro's with XT32 that cost $500. I know of one that costs $800 that does not setup the subs separately and apart from this one receiver's/pre-pro's with it cost a minimum of $1,500. You use false price figures to make your argument stronger. You often exaggerate when making your case including when you argue about external amps and quality/similarity of AVRs.

sorta, XT32 and SubEQ are two different feature sets offered by audyssey, sorta like dynamic eq and dynamic volume being two separate audyssey features. it just so happens that almost all XT32 equipped receivers also have SubEQ with the exception of the onkyo 818. No where does audyssey say that XT32 needs SubEQ in order to be a complete version of XT32.

I suspect within the next few years we will see more mid level avr's from denon, onkyo and marantz (and a few others) that will offer XT32 but have no SubEQ feature, as this way it will differentiate the mid lines from the higher lines.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #10 of 14 Old 02-03-2013, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

sorta, XT32 and SubEQ are two different feature sets offered by audyssey, sorta like dynamic eq and dynamic volume being two separate audyssey features. it just so happens that almost all XT32 equipped receivers also have SubEQ with the exception of the onkyo 818. No where does audyssey say that XT32 needs SubEQ in order to be a complete version of XT32.

I suspect within the next few years we will see more mid level avr's from denon, onkyo and marantz (and a few others) that will offer XT32 but have no SubEQ feature, as this way it will differentiate the mid lines from the higher lines.

Yes, I know they are two different feature sets. I did not say that XT32 was "incomplete" without SubEQ, although I think one could say that. I just couldn't think of the label "SubEQ," a slip of my memory. SubEQ is a very important feature set in my opinion.
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post #11 of 14 Old 02-03-2013, 07:01 AM
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Unless one has 2 or more subs, the Sub EQ HT feature does not play a part in the equation.

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post #12 of 14 Old 02-03-2013, 07:58 AM
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Unless one has 2 or more subs, the Sub EQ HT feature does not play a part in the equation.

Come on, this isn't the "real world" where most people don't even have surround sound, its an audio enthusiasts forum in large part. Many of us have more than one sub and many of those that don't aspire to having more than one. For me, with more than one sub, having XT32 without SubEQ HT would be unthinkable.
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post #13 of 14 Old 02-03-2013, 08:06 AM
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I would wager that well over 80% (and that's being generous) of all posters in these threads only have a single sub and as the vast majority of "real world" owners likely only have one sub, likely why Onkyo left Sub EQ HT off the 818. wink.gif Based on responses in the Denon threads alone over the past 5 years, I'd say it's closer to 95%.

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post #14 of 14 Old 02-03-2013, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Unless one has 2 or more subs, the Sub EQ HT feature does not play a part in the equation.

Come on, this isn't the "real world" where most people don't even have surround sound, its an audio enthusiasts forum in large part. Many of us have more than one sub and many of those that don't aspire to having more than one. For me, with more than one sub, having XT32 without SubEQ HT would be unthinkable.

 

For me too. Although if the subs are identical (mine are) and can be positioned equidistantly from the MLP and still be optimised for SQ (mine can't, in my room) then the SUbEQ part of XT32 has no real value that I can see. All that SubEQ does is set the levels and distances of two subs separately. It then EQs them as one, as do all versions of XT32. One could argue that setting levels and distances (delays) is a fairly straightforward matter for anyone with measuring tools like OM or REW, in which case the benefit of SubEQ is even further diminished.

 

I think that for anyone with a single sub, or anyone with two identical subs equidistant from the MLP, the Onkyo 818 represents the biggest bargain out there right now. If it was Audyssey Pro ready, I would be happy to own it (with the caveats just mentioned).

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