"OFFICIAL" Pioneer SC-1222-K Owners Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1430 Old 02-24-2013, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryWA View Post

The 1222 can output 100W/channel all channels driven. I doubt you'll ever hit that much.

Right now, I'll be using my 1222 with a 5.1 set up. So driving all the 5.1 speaker it will have 100 wpc still?

My older Onkyo HT-R960 was hitting may be 60 wpc or less with a 7.1.

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post #362 of 1430 Old 02-24-2013, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryWA View Post

The 1222 can output 100W/channel all channels driven. I doubt you'll ever hit that much.

Right now, I'll be using my 1222 with a 5.1 set up. So driving all the 5.1 speaker it will have 100 wpc still?

My older Onkyo HT-R960 was hitting may be 60 wpc or less with a 7.1.

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post #363 of 1430 Old 02-24-2013, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svadas View Post

Can anyone lend insight as what exactly the "Sound Retriever" feature does to the internet streams and mp3s? The description seems to imply that it is magic. It does sound better with it engaged, but I am wondering if it is just artificially boosting the highs and lows.

The theory here is that moving from 16-bit to 24-bit offers a greater dynamic range. Most music, particularly pop music, is compressed, averaging out the overall volume so that the result is perceptually louder. This smart DSP feature for compressed sources looks for transients in the audio (sharp attacks), such as bass drums, and increases their volume making otherwise masked sounds more prominent, while retrieving harmonics that should be there but were filtered out by the audio compression.

Like other implementations, it's based on a series of assumptions about the music mix, assumptions that not always are applicable. The results of the Sound Retriever Technology, however, are surprisingly effective. Drums do sound punchier and a high-pass filter helps to push the higher frequencies, both of which typically suffer during conversion to MP3. It adds details that were, most probably, in the uncompressed source.

Saying this, don't get wrong. The experience can be qualitatively more enjoyable, there is a lot of engineering behind it, but it's not possible to add to a signal, in 100% of the cases, something that wasn't there but that was in the original recording source. It's not magic, just statistics. If you want to dig deeper in the audio signal processing, you should stop by the Hydrogenaudio forums.

Best regards

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post #364 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 09:52 AM
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Stepchild - Can't help with the ps3. I recently p/u a Pioneer BDP-150 from b and h photo for 129. It plays nice with the 1222. It can be controlled with the icontrol2012 without having to open another app. It would allow you to bitstream the output to the 1222 for processing.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/857276-REG/Pioneer_BDP_150_BDP_150_Blu_ray_Player.html

Mitz DLP 73740
Pioneer SC 1222K
Pioneer BDP 150
Apple I Pad Retina
Fronts Cerwin Vega AT-12
Center JBL Northridge EC-35
Surround Rear JBL CST-56
Surround Back Advent
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post #365 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Geez, sorry peeps. I have been slammed and haven't caught up on the thread. Anything I need to post in the OP?

I will be posting my settings tonight but I haven't played with anything on the width, depth, etc virtual settings. Anybody tried them?

TV: Panasonic Plasma 60" TC-P60ST30
Receiver: Pioneer SC-1222-K
Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S590
Speakers: MK Sound M-7 / M4-T
Sub: MK Sound SB-12
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post #366 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

Right now, I'll be using my 1222 with a 5.1 set up. So driving all the 5.1 speaker it will have 100 wpc still?

My older Onkyo HT-R960 was hitting may be 60 wpc or less with a 7.1.

Check this review on the SC-61 (same internals as the 1222-K): http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-61-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

"Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 127.2 watts
1% distortion at 150.3 watts

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 109.0 watts
1% distortion at 127.7 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 99.4 watts
1% distortion at 110.3 watts "

Thats one of the huge advantage of class D: very little "sag" as more channels are loaded. Only losing 28W/channel between 2 channels driven and 7. In comparison I havent seen exact tests of an Onkyo 809 at all channels driven, but the estimate is probably about the same as what the SC61 tested at. The difference being the SC61 does it with very little heat and much less electrical draw, and the Onkyo is "rated" at much more wattage than the SC61/1222-K, so its losing a lot more as you run more than 2 speakers.

Also keep in mind that the Pio class D amps are rated for 4 ohm use, and a lot of HT speakers are less than 8 ohm nominal, which will actually pull even MORE power out of the amps (at the expense of more heat, but the Pio seems to have plenty of thermal overhead)
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post #367 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisexv6 View Post

Check this review on the SC-61 (same internals as the 1222-K): http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-61-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

"Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 127.2 watts
1% distortion at 150.3 watts

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 109.0 watts
1% distortion at 127.7 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 99.4 watts
1% distortion at 110.3 watts "

Thats one of the huge advantage of class D: very little "sag" as more channels are loaded. Only losing 28W/channel between 2 channels driven and 7. In comparison I havent seen exact tests of an Onkyo 809 at all channels driven, but the estimate is probably about the same as what the SC61 tested at. The difference being the SC61 does it with very little heat and much less electrical draw, and the Onkyo is "rated" at much more wattage than the SC61/1222-K, so its losing a lot more as you run more than 2 speakers.

Also keep in mind that the Pio class D amps are rated for 4 ohm use, and a lot of HT speakers are less than 8 ohm nominal, which will actually pull even MORE power out of the amps (at the expense of more heat, but the Pio seems to have plenty of thermal overhead)

Thanks for the info / link. Those are pretty good numbers!

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post #368 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisexv6 View Post

Thats one of the huge advantage of class D: very little "sag" as more channels are loaded. Only losing 28W/channel between 2 channels driven and 7. In comparison I havent seen exact tests of an Onkyo 809 at all channels driven, but the estimate is probably about the same as what the SC61 tested at.

No my friend, the estimate is not about the same, it is not even close to the SC-61/SC-1222K. Actually if you go for the numbers of a $2000 Onkyo receiver, the TX-NR3010:
Code:
Onkyo TX-NR3010 A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures

Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 
 0.1% distortion at 167.8 watts 
 1% distortion at 189.5 watts 

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 
 0.1% distortion at 122.1 watts 
 1% distortion at 142.2 watts 

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 
 0.1% distortion at 114.1 watts 
 1% distortion at 127.2 watts 

You can find that this high level Onkyo drops the power per channel a 27% when going from 2 to 5 ch, twice the amount of the SC-1222K that drops only 14%. With 7 channels the drop is around 50W per channel against the 28W of the SC-1222K. Take into account that we are comparing a $2000 Onkyo Receiver against a $550 SC-1222K.

One more thing, the SC-1222K is 4ohm certified and it delivers 190 W/ch with 4 ohms speakers while still running cold.

Talking to everyone, what we have now in the market is a changing scenario with very good traditional A/B stages against the natural replacement, the PWM switched amplification, more commonly known as digital amplification or class D or ICE or D3... whatever. Pioneer was improving the previous ICE stages with the new D3, nonetheless the big improvement is not only the efficiency, but also the lower distortion and higher SNR. This is why I changed from Marantz to THIS Pioneer. The problem with the switched amps was always the EMI, it seems that Pioneer have solved this issue. We will see other brands using switched amps in forthcoming years. Same hapenned in the TV arena 10 years ago when moving from CRTs to PDPs first and LCDs later.

Regarding the reliability, the transistors of the A/B stage are always biased, thus their life is counting even when there is no source, just because there is a biasing current flowing through the transistor channel. In switched amps, there is no current unless there is a signal, this is why it is cold and the theoretical life of the active components is much higher.

Sorry for the length of this post.

Regards
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post #369 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okibcn View Post



Sorry for the length of this post.

Regards

No problem, I was just going "conservative" and saying it was close because I couldnt find any hard values for the Onkyo 809 (or 818 for that matter). Only a few forum posts that suggested with 7 channels driven the Onkyo might put out around 75W/channel. Since I had no hard numbers I didnt want to start a war without the facts to back it up.

*I* understand the difference with Class D, and I was pretty sure the Onkyo sags big time as well. I didnt think of checking a higher end model, plus Im not sure if the amp sections are different (then again youd figure the higher end model would potentially be BETTER than the 809)

We agree on it though, the 1222-K/SC61 performs much better (power-wise) than the Onkyo 809 and possibly even the 818. Along with running a lot cooler and using less electricity while doing so.
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post #370 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 02:41 PM
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After reading the two threads on this receiver I have learned that I probably have things set up improperly, I have the sub crossover set for 50 Hz when it should be set for 80, All my speakers are JBL towers (L880's front, ES80's X 4 rear with an LC2 center, set to "PLUS") I just bought an SPL meter from Radio Shack to fine tune. Is there a definitive guide for setting the speakers up/fine tuning with MCACC?

Javygonx I have sent you a PM asking about your sub setup guide, I look forward to trying your method if you would be kind enough to send me the info.

Thanks!

AVR - Pioneer SC1222k

Display - LG 60" Plasma

Front - JBL L880's

Center - JBL LC2

Surrounds X 4 - JBL ES80bk's

Subs - Dual Premier Acoustic PA-150's

BR - Panasonic DMP-BDT500

DVD/CD - Toshiba HD-A35

CD Spinner - Some Sony HDMI 5 disk changer

2 channel Speakers - Martin Logan Motion 12's

 

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post #371 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

Well, I am hoping I don't get the issue. I just ordered this AVR with a 25c center channel. About 6 months ago, I bought a Pioneer VSX-1022-K, and I didn't have any issues playing movies with it and the Dune D1. Hopefully, I get it soon and I'll test it out.

Well, I called Pioneer and they didn't have any suggestions except take the receiver to a service center. frown.gif When are you supposed to get your 1222-k?
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post #372 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbooth View Post

Well, I called Pioneer and they didn't have any suggestions except take the receiver to a service center. frown.gif When are you supposed to get your 1222-k?

I just received an email with a tracking #. I'm am hoping it gets here by Friday.

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post #373 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 04:45 PM
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4 hours left....cannot decide..

Really stream all my music/movie file via PS3 Media Server and PS3, to the networking part is not really a big think for me.

But my Onkyo 706 is having HDMI issue with HDMI board..

I really want the big technology jump from 4 year AVR, and a big sonic enhancement.


Issue: WAF and the Pioneer Remote...I know it has challenges from what i've read, but MUST be able to get wife
to be able to switch TV<>CABLE<>PS3 etc....

Please give me your thoughts fellas'..

//thanks
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post #374 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

I just received an email with a tracking #. I'm am hoping it gets here by Friday.

Cool. I just took my Dune D1 to Best Buy and, while they didn't have a 1222-k, they did have an 1122-k and it didn't work on that one either. It did work on an Onkyo HT-R380 that I tried earlier today though.
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post #375 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlm86 View Post

4 hours left....cannot decide..

Really stream all my music/movie file via PS3 Media Server and PS3, to the networking part is not really a big think for me.

But my Onkyo 706 is having HDMI issue with HDMI board..

I really want the big technology jump from 4 year AVR, and a big sonic enhancement.


Issue: WAF and the Pioneer Remote...I know it has challenges from what i've read, but MUST be able to get wife
to be able to switch TV<>CABLE<>PS3 etc....

Please give me your thoughts fellas'..

//thanks

First, do not panic. Newegg has been offering the 1222 for $529 for about a month now. I'd be surprised if they ran out or did not have it again at the same price.

For your wife, if you haven't already, download the "Product Sheet" from Pioneer's site. It has a good pic of the remote. You can blow-it-up, to say, 600% and then show her the buttons for " TV<>CABLE<>PS3." If all you are concerned about is her being able to switch sources, then I'd say no worries. That's pretty easy.
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post #376 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okibcn View Post

iControlAV2 doesn't work with our SC-1222k. We use the iControlAV2012. The android version only works in phone size. No optimization for Android tablets AFAIK. Get an iPad 1 or 2. It is the best remote you can get and all the brands have apps for iOS.

Regards

Sorry, I will often copy/paste to avoid typos - works great as long as I copy the right thing in the first place!

I was disappointed to hear, "no optimization for Android tablets AFAIK" - but stopped by my local Best Buy to check. Lucky enough to find a willing rep with some time. After finding an unlocked tablet, he got the iControlAV2012 app installed and running in demo mode - it worked great! I left without taking note of which Android tablet I was using (running a bit late) but it was an 8-10" screen.
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post #377 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 05:46 PM
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great forum thanks

Back to remote and WAF....(sorry)

Is the Pioneer remote able to learn functions for Samsung LED/LCD TV's, thus my have only
1 remote to use for complete system?

I keep reading negative slant on Pioneer remote, and if it was just me , i wouldn't car, but have to be sensitive to my spouse...


Also:
Music Purist: The stream i use now from PS3 Media Server: stream music library to PS3, then to ONKYO AVR..

Will it be more "pure" to stream thus straight from library to 1222 AVR , bypassing the PS3?



thanks again..
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post #378 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue1 View Post

So far I'm not a huge fan of MCACC's channel levels. It keeps increasing the db's of the surround towers to higher than the front stage, eventhough the surrounds are much closer to the mic than the front stage. The sub is also being put at -12, which is way too low. I've moved it to -2.5 instead for now. Any recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyekode View Post

Tell us about your microphone placement. I put mine facing up at ear level at my primary listening position. In iPad all it shows the before and after curves. This may help you figure out why it is turning your sub down so low.

In a "normal" room there may be huge peaks and valleys in sub response. Maybe it is trying to squash one if these peaks? The before/after curves should help us understand what is going on.

Good luck!
Salem

I placed my mic in my main listening position, which is just off center and closer to the left side of the speaker setup. It's weird that the mic was closest to the Surround Left tower, but raised that speaker level the most, even more than the same speaker that was on the other side and farther away.
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post #379 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue1 View Post


I placed my mic in my main listening position, which is just off center and closer to the left side of the speaker setup. It's weird that the mic was closest to the Surround Left tower, but raised that speaker level the most, even more than the same speaker that was on the other side and farther away.

Was the remote at ear level? If paced in a seat with arms or some other obstruction it will give bad readings. Also did you watch the display on screen to verify it was testing the speakers it thought it was testing?

Good luck!
Salem
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post #380 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 06:53 PM
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Interested in hearing comments from former Onkyo 809 owners regarding SQ?
I'm running the Polk RTi A9, CSi A6 and FXi A6 , Klipsch RW-12D sub on my 809.
Thx
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post #381 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 08:14 PM
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My observations after one week of ownership:

PROS:

This is one awesome receiver! Loaded with clean power - no speaker distortion at any sound level. Loaded with features that I never thought I'd use. The sound in my HT room when it's really cranked up for a great action movie is unbelievable. Not to mention the Datona 500! Class D amplifier alone was worth the $529 from Newegg.com.

My favorite feature? The capability to Equalize each of the 7 channels individually! Wow! I have my speakers tweaked and they sound so much better than they ever did with my 15 year old Harman Kardon. So to all the guys who say... "Your speakers always sound the same, no matter what receiver you choose!", I say... "You have a right to your opinion..... but you're WRONG!" Haha.....wink.gif

CONS:

Buttons on the remote are pretty small, and hard to read and see... but I can live with it.

Thanks to everyone for all your help, suggestions and advice.

biggrin.gif

Bill Luster
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post #382 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyekode View Post

Was the remote at ear level? If paced in a seat with arms or some other obstruction it will give bad readings. Also did you watch the display on screen to verify it was testing the speakers it thought it was testing?

Good luck!
Salem

Yeah, the mic was at ear level and unobstructed.
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post #383 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 08:21 PM
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When I got my sc1222 from newegg, it did not have the "new" stickers on the front and did not contain the manual. Could this mean I got an open box or refurb?
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post #384 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 08:39 PM
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Wow that would infuriate me. My onkyo from amazon came new as new can be covered in stickers. I wonder if this crazy good deal on the new egg 1222 includes returns and refurbs and why the hell wouldn't they state that when you're purchasing? Did anything else seem "used" about it? Any finger prints? Batteries already in the remote? And no manual included? Yeah call up new egg, bitch like crazy, and demand they pay for you to return it.

Panasonic 60ST60, Pioneer SC-1522-K, Polk RTiA9, PS3 Slim
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post #385 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue1 View Post

When I got my sc1222 from newegg, it did not have the "new" stickers on the front and did not contain the manual. Could this mean I got an open box or refurb?

If you look back at earlier posts many of us (if not most) did not have stickers on the front of the receiver. Manuals usually aren't included anymore and you have to go to manufacturer website for the manual. There should have been a startup guide included.

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post #386 of 1430 Old 02-25-2013, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy2Lurk View Post

Sorry, I will often copy/paste to avoid typos - works great as long as I copy the right thing in the first place!

I was disappointed to hear, "no optimization for Android tablets AFAIK" - but stopped by my local Best Buy to check. Lucky enough to find a willing rep with some time. After finding an unlocked tablet, he got the iControlAV2012 app installed and running in demo mode - it worked great! I left without taking note of which Android tablet I was using (running a bit late) but it was an 8-10" screen.

I am glad to hear that I was wrong!!!!! I saw somewhere in Internet that the Android tabled interface had the same interface than the Android phones (I have one of those). Was it Android tablet Interface like the iPad interface?

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·· AV System
Receiver: Pioneer SC-1222K
Spkrs: homemade monitors + Energy Take Classic 5.1
Display: Samsung UN55ES8000
Src: Comcast DVR / Apple TV 3 / Xbox360 slim / HTPC / AirPlay / Pandora / Bluetooth*

*Pre-processor: Noozxoide EIZO-rewire PRO
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post #387 of 1430 Old 02-26-2013, 02:26 AM
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Ok...Now i am officially one of the group....Should get my 1222 on Friday....

Are any of you using Harmony or other brands of universal remotes? Have not gone down that road in a few years, but may look
into it...

I really tossed this one around whether to get a full pre/pro amp combo, but at Newegg pricing, i had to jump.
Class D3 amplification I hope to make believer out of me.
First Pioneer product I think i have ever owned.

thanks
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post #388 of 1430 Old 02-26-2013, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by tbooth View Post

Cool. I just took my Dune D1 to Best Buy and, while they didn't have a 1222-k, they did have an 1122-k and it didn't work on that one either. It did work on an Onkyo HT-R380 that I tried earlier today though.

I rechecked the tracking #, and apparently my 25c center channel and 1222-k will be delivered today. I am hoping they deliver it before I got to work so I can test it out with the Dune D1. I also have a PCH-A210 that I use in the master bedroom. I will test it as well.

Media Server: UnRaid Server: 15TB of storage and growing :).

http://www.avsforum.com/lists/display/view/id/8599

 

Home Theater Set Up:

http://www.avsforum.com/lists/display/view/id/8597

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post #389 of 1430 Old 02-26-2013, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

I rechecked the tracking #, and apparently my 25c center channel and 1222-k will be delivered today. I am hoping they deliver it before I got to work so I can test it out with the Dune D1. I also have a PCH-A210 that I use in the master bedroom. I will test it as well.

Sweet! When you get it try this.

1.)Plug in the Pioneer and just connect the Dune to one of the HDMI inputs. Select the appropriate input and watch the HDMI light on the right side of the front display on the Pioneer. What I've been seeing is that the HDMI light will come on for about 2-3 seconds and then blink a few times before remaining off.
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post #390 of 1430 Old 02-26-2013, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by gasdag View Post

Wow that would infuriate me. My onkyo from amazon came new as new can be covered in stickers. I wonder if this crazy good deal on the new egg 1222 includes returns and refurbs and why the hell wouldn't they state that when you're purchasing? Did anything else seem "used" about it? Any finger prints? Batteries already in the remote? And no manual included? Yeah call up new egg, bitch like crazy, and demand they pay for you to return it.

No.

Both of the 809s I got from Amazon did not have stickers on them. Nor did it have a paper manual. It seems to be a luck of the draw what you get (stickers, paper manual, none, etc). Unless you think Amazon is selling opened/refurbed as new too?
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