"OFFICIAL" Pioneer SC-1222-K Owners Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by javygonx View Post

My denon 3311 is supposed to have subeq with Audessey XT. My 1222 sub kicks denon's a$$.most people say it dont but im pretty sure it does some subEq. Anyway you can tweak your sub with a feature called s-wave. And there is no need to have individual crossover unless your surrounds cant handle 150hz or less. I have ro say this 1222 blows away my denon 3311. And trust me I really loved my 3311.
My surrounds, when I purchased them can't handle 150 hz. I don't have them yet but I want cheap surrounds. 100 dollars a pair, polk owm3 surrounds. Unless this is retarded, I really don't think I need expensive surrounds but what do I know lol. I feel like the monitor 70s will get much lower, then any surrounded I pick. It really annoys me that they wouldn't allow you to pick separate crossovers it's insane.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by tential View Post

Can anyone comment on the preamp voltage? I was trying to figure this out in another thread but people just kinda blew me off. Really am curious as to the preamp voltage on this unit compared to the 809 as I am buying this unit to connect to a Crown XLS 1500.

I use a BFD and a Crown DC-400 to power my sub. After letting the receiver pick the sub level all is well. I do have my Crown's gain all the way up but this is how I ran it on my old receiver too. I do it this way so if my kids dork with the volume knob on the Crown it is easy to reset the level smile.gif.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by happy2Lurk View Post

Wondering about the 1222's volume ...

On my old preamp, 0db was the maximum amplification.

The Volume Control of the SC-1222 goes to +12db.

Does anyone know what, if anything, 0db references on the 1222?

Along the same line, does anyone know why, when MCACC sets the channel levels, no speaker is set to 0db? I have run MCACC a number of times, due to changing / moving speakers. Each time, the channel levels range from a low of -2db to as much as -8.5db. Is this due to the non-linear db scale?

Even if MCACC needs a 6-to-7 db range to balance my speakers, why are they all -db?

The channel level adjustment range is -12db to +12db. Has anyone had MCACC set a speaker at + anything?

I realize, all that really matters, is that I can reach the sound level I desire - but I am curious!

I have a pretty sensitive center and pretty insensitive left/right. MCACC did pick positive numbers for the fronts for me. Is MCACC choosing negative values for _all_ channels, even the sub? That would be a little surprising to me... Maybe although it is setting the overall level negative it is boosting some frequencies in the channel? You should be able to see this on the graphs in the iPad app or on screen. I could see it doing this if it needed to boost your low end a couple db.

As for what 0db is... That is odd. I guess this one goes to 11... er 12? smile.gif
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by okibcn View Post

Of course ir dotes sub calibration. Regarding the crossover, it is a single one as per Dolby Labs recommendations. I completely agree with that, you won't get more quality unless you had very bad surrounds. In that case separate crossover won't help.

A couple things: most tracks don't have a lot of content in the lower octaves in the surround channels. And in this price range I would hope most users would pick reasonably capable surrounds. This doesn't mean they need to be full range. But they need to not self destruct at moderate levels.

Ideally the receiver would provide a separate crossover for all channels but this would only really help those with seriously undersized surrounds IMHO. I am talking Bose cube sized surrounds. And even in this extreme case you may be ok depending on your volume level.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by eyekode View Post

A couple things: most tracks don't have a lot of content in the lower octaves in the surround channels. And in this price range I would hope most users would pick reasonably capable surrounds. This doesn't mean they need to be full range. But they need to not self destruct at moderate levels.

Ideally the receiver would provide a separate crossover for all channels but this would only really help those with seriously undersized surrounds IMHO. I am talking Bose cube sized surrounds. And even in this extreme case you may be ok depending on your volume level.
Salem

Ya this is my biggest problem. But I don't have surrounds yet, so maybe I'll just save up and buy good surrounds later if I can't find a decent president's day sale. Still sucks though, seems like it'd only take an extra 5 seconds to program in.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by icelt View Post

There is a mode that does exactly this. Look for "Ext. Stereo". To get to it use the "Advanced Surround" button on the front panel or "Adv Surr" on the remote or "Extended Stereo" from the phone app.

I've been using this mode for 2ch music since I received it and it sounds great!

One thing I have noticed is that unlike my old VSX-D909S that had a 5ch Stereo mode, the 1222's Ext Stereo doesn't seems to be true 5ch Stereo. The back and surrounds are not equal to the fronts. And the center seems to be louder than all the rest. With my 909 I got equal output from all speakers.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:30 PM
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What exactly is True 5 CH stereo? Its all simulated from two channels.

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Old 02-17-2013, 12:32 PM
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Myself i have a different take on some of this. I don't worry too much about what individual speaker settings MCACC arrived at. I lean more toward trying/trusting the end results of the MCACC calibration. I haven't seen any documentation in any of the Pioneer forums on AVS from Pioneer as to what exactly MCACC does. I don't think we will ever fully know as i am sure this is proprietary info. I would have to believe that the Engineers spent countless hours. Testing various speakers and configurations upon fine tuning MCACC. When you listen to the test tones and review the data. MCACC is testing each speaker at various frequencies. To determine what each speaker is capable of producing. Including the sub. Each room configuration is unique. Shape of room, ceiling height, overall size of room, types of flooring, soft hard surfaces, size of furniture/placement, etc. Each one of these has a profound effect on the calibration. Who knows what other hidden settings it is adjusting. For me, i didn't make any adjustments to its settings I could see. It set all my speakers to large and the crossover at 80 Hz. The only thing I did was listened to end results in each of the DSP modes over several days. For me I found thabt while listening to music in Dolby Pro Logic II Music mode sounded most goodest to my ears. Sound quality is personal. Millage may vary. But what makes this AVR, is that you can adjust many settings to your personal tastes. Using parts of the MCACC results.

Im just suggesting to try/trust MCACC Initial settings. In reading most of the pioneer threads of the various AVR models on AVS. How many, are so quick, after running the MCACC calibration. To adjust speakers from large to small and set cross over to 80 Hz. I know that is what we all use to do. Just saying give MCACC a chance over a couple of days and see what ya think. Im listening right now to Albert King, ill play the blues for you. It sounds very clear, crisp, the bass is pronounced and tight, the overall sonic sound stage is excellent. Definitely a noticeable improvement from my old AVR and me adjusting the speaker levels with a spl meter.

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Old 02-17-2013, 12:49 PM
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I forgot to say. While listening to a 2 channel signal input and using Dolby Pro Logic II Music. My sub is not active/off. All the bass is being produced by all the "LARGE" speakers. For my setup that is all the speakers.

While playing a blu ray with a LFE input signal. Sub is active/on.....

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Old 02-17-2013, 12:54 PM
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Farmer Bob - When I select EXT STEREO mode from a 2 channel input signal. It extends that signal out to all channels at equal levels.

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Old 02-17-2013, 04:02 PM
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Does the Pioneer allow you watch video from one source whilst listening to audio from another. I like to watch cable while listening to music sometimes.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

My surrounds, when I purchased them can't handle 150 hz. I don't have them yet but I want cheap surrounds. 100 dollars a pair, polk owm3 surrounds. Unless this is retarded, I really don't think I need expensive surrounds but what do I know lol. I feel like the monitor 70s will get much lower, then any surrounded I pick. It really annoys me that they wouldn't allow you to pick separate crossovers it's insane.

These speakers recieved great reviews, are cheap, and should not be a problem crossover wise: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=250-656

By the way this is the only line of pioneer speakers I have heard good reviews for. And I don't own them, I typically do DIY designs.
Salem
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by LNEWoLF View Post

Farmer Bob - When I select EXT STEREO mode from a 2 channel input signal. It extends that signal out to all channels at equal levels.

Is there any separation with the left and right surrounds and backs? Does it mix the left and right sides into one channel for center, surrounds and backs? The fronts are still in stereo correct?
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerBob View Post

One thing I have noticed is that unlike my old VSX-D909S that had a 5ch Stereo mode, the 1222's Ext Stereo doesn't seems to be true 5ch Stereo. The back and surrounds are not equal to the fronts. And the center seems to be louder than all the rest. With my 909 I got equal output from all speakers.

Check your balance settings, the signal should come from all the speakers.

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Old 02-17-2013, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by eyekode View Post

These speakers recieved great reviews, are cheap, and should not be a problem crossover wise: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=250-656

By the way this is the only line of pioneer speakers I have heard good reviews for. And I don't own them, I typically do DIY designs.
Salem

I'm starting to wonder if I need the SC-1222-K. The main thing I want is preouts. I wanted the SC-1222-K because I can't get hte TX-NR809 which is what I really want. However, I've heard that Pioneer's onscreen set up isn't too great. If I intend to buy an external amp (will purchase at the same time), I'm starting to think the TX-NR709 is probably the best choice for me (it's 320 refurbished right now). I still get MultiEQ from the 809, I really don't even know what I'm missing out by stepping down to the 709 if I use an amplifier. The SC-1222-K seems like the only reason I'd get it over the 809 or the 709 is if I prefer Pioneer's MCACC.

Anyone got any comments on that since the SC-1222-K deal ends tonight.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:15 AM
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I have had the SC-1222 for the last two months and really love it. Movies and music have been great. I have noticed one problem with my Comcast motorola cable box hooked up to the SC-1222 through an optical cable on the Pioneer SC-1222's TV optical input. On occasion I have noticed after a while of being on that when changing cable channels on a 5.1 channel that the speaker layout stays on the Pioneer display and doesnt change to two channel. I am using a 7.1 speaker set up and always use PLIIx Movies. The only way to get it back is to change the input on the receiver or tv and then change back and it goes back to normal. It is like it is having a handshake issue with the cable optical audio out sometimes. I have changed optical cables and it did the same. This doesnt always happen but I have noticed it a handful of times and seems to happen after watching one channel for a long period of time. No other problems except this. Has anyone else had this happen? I wonder if I changed to Digital Coax out (cable box) and In(Pioneer SC-1222) would it prevent this or does anyone know another fix? Thanks...

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Old 02-18-2013, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by tential View Post

I'm starting to wonder if I need the SC-1222-K. The main thing I want is preouts. I wanted the SC-1222-K because I can't get hte TX-NR809 which is what I really want. However, I've heard that Pioneer's onscreen set up isn't too great. If I intend to buy an external amp (will purchase at the same time), I'm starting to think the TX-NR709 is probably the best choice for me (it's 320 refurbished right now). I still get MultiEQ from the 809, I really don't even know what I'm missing out by stepping down to the 709 if I use an amplifier. The SC-1222-K seems like the only reason I'd get it over the 809 or the 709 is if I prefer Pioneer's MCACC.

Anyone got any comments on that since the SC-1222-K deal ends tonight.

I can't comment on other brand's GUI, but for me, the UI does whats it needs to do, nothing fancy.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:12 AM
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The GUI on the 1222 is pretty cheesy looking. A stark contrast to the iPad app that is beautiful.

But if you are not planning on using the D3 amps I would not buy it. There are cheaper options with pre outs and 12v trigger. And if you do not want MultiEQ... We you don't want a pioneer smile.gif.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:36 AM
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Has anyone been successful controlling a Media Center PC using the 1222 remote? It has a code under the "VCR" codes list for media center. But there is no "VCR" input. I used this code with the PC connected to the "DVR" input and a couple buttons work: play, stop, maybe a couple more. But the directional arrows, enter button and the return button do not work so it is mostly useless. I also tried to use the learning feature of the remote but I have not managed to get functional codes out of it. This could be user error...
Comments? Should I just buy a decent remote smile.gif?
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerBob View Post

One thing I have noticed is that unlike my old VSX-D909S that had a 5ch Stereo mode, the 1222's Ext Stereo doesn't seems to be true 5ch Stereo. The back and surrounds are not equal to the fronts. And the center seems to be louder than all the rest. With my 909 I got equal output from all speakers.

Looks like others have already addressed your question but yes the loudness of each speaker should be effectively equal. Well at least at a similar level to the channel, left or right, that its associated with.

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Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post

Does the Pioneer allow you watch video from one source whilst listening to audio from another. I like to watch cable while listening to music sometimes.

Most definitely. Look for Happy2lurk's earlier post for a detailed explanation on how to find it. But the feature you are interested in is the "HDMI pass through" setting. I have mine set to "Last" so that basically any mode the receiver is in that does not contain video, even if it is powered off, it will still pass through the Last known video signal through the HDMI Out port. Tried it last night and it works great.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by tential View Post

I'm starting to wonder if I need the SC-1222-K. The main thing I want is preouts. I wanted the SC-1222-K because I can't get hte TX-NR809 which is what I really want. However, I've heard that Pioneer's onscreen set up isn't too great. If I intend to buy an external amp (will purchase at the same time), I'm starting to think the TX-NR709 is probably the best choice for me (it's 320 refurbished right now). I still get MultiEQ from the 809, I really don't even know what I'm missing out by stepping down to the 709 if I use an amplifier. The SC-1222-K seems like the only reason I'd get it over the 809 or the 709 is if I prefer Pioneer's MCACC.

Anyone got any comments on that since the SC-1222-K deal ends tonight.

I actually HAD the Onkyo 809. Is their UI a little better? Yes. Is it spectacular? no.

I think a lot of people call the UI cheesy just because its not pretty with spinny 3d graphics, etc. But it does what it needs to do (work).

A few things I missed from the 809:

individual xover settings for channels, not a big deal if you have relatively same size speakers.
on-screen volume display, but Ive gotten over that
ability to set reference levels, volume increase, etc based on incoming format. I dont think the Pio could do this, the Onkyo could (which was handy since DTS seems so much lower than everything else)

BUT...the Pio runs MUCH cooler, even in "standby". I think the Onkyo was drawing quite a bit of power to use HDMI pass through, etc. I believe theyve solved it with the 818, but the 818 was even more expensive than the Pio. I also like the fact that you can actually see what MCACC does, and you can tweak individual parts of it. With Audyssey its set and forget. If you try to tweak something you disable all of the Audyssey chosen values, and I think there are values that only Audyssey can touch so its not like you can mimick the whole Audyssey setup and just change one or two values.

And, the elephant in the room: has Onkyo really solved their HDMI woes? Not sure anyone can tell yet, since it looks like they dont pop up until 2 or 3 years into ownership, and even the 809 isnt 2 years old yet.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisexv6 View Post

I actually HAD the Onkyo 809. Is their UI a little better? Yes. Is it spectacular? no.

I think a lot of people call the UI cheesy just because its not pretty with spinny 3d graphics, etc. But it does what it needs to do (work).

A few things I missed from the 809:

individual xover settings for channels, not a big deal if you have relatively same size speakers.
on-screen volume display, but Ive gotten over that
ability to set reference levels, volume increase, etc based on incoming format. I dont think the Pio could do this, the Onkyo could (which was handy since DTS seems so much lower than everything else)

BUT...the Pio runs MUCH cooler, even in "standby". I think the Onkyo was drawing quite a bit of power to use HDMI pass through, etc. I believe theyve solved it with the 818, but the 818 was even more expensive than the Pio.

And, the elephant in the room: has Onkyo really solved their HDMI woes? Not sure anyone can tell yet, since it looks like they dont pop up until 2 or 3 years into ownership, and even the 809 isnt 2 years old yet.

On screen volume display would KILL me not to have so I'm glad now I didn't jump on this. Thanks a lot man. My eyesight is horrific so unless the onscreen volume display comes up on my 70 inch tv, I would have no clue what volume level I'm at. I been trying to get opinions on this though, compared to the 709 spec sheet, what does the 809 do better?
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR709-7-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B004V8KWQO
I was about to pul the trigger on the 809 and since I have no intention of using the internal amplifier I'm not too worried about it running hot or drawing a lot of power (I'm not the one paying the electric bills at the moment for a little) but it seems the 709 is the exact same thing other than the amp and the video processing (which again I only feed 1080p formats through my PC and Xbox360).
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by tential View Post

On screen volume display would KILL me not to have so I'm glad now I didn't jump on this. Thanks a lot man. My eyesight is horrific so unless the onscreen volume display comes up on my 70 inch tv, I would have no clue what volume level I'm at. I been trying to get opinions on this though, compared to the 709 spec sheet, what does the 809 do better?
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR709-7-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B004V8KWQO
I was about to pul the trigger on the 809 and since I have no intention of using the internal amplifier I'm not too worried about it running hot or drawing a lot of power (I'm not the one paying the electric bills at the moment for a little) but it seems the 709 is the exact same thing other than the amp and the video processing (which again I only feed 1080p formats through my PC and Xbox360).

Its funny, my brother in law said the same thing....if it doesnt have OSD of the volume he wont buy it. Me, I dont see much use for it.......Ill turn it up until I feel its loud enough, or down if its too loud, etc.

Im not 100% sure what the differences are, but I believe the 809 has a much better quality amplification section vs the 709. Not just more power, but different design as well. If you arent using the internal amp, probably not a big deal then.

But at that point, why not just get a pre-pro?
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:33 AM
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Ya, the OSD is good for when I switch sources. If I'm on my Xbox 360 playing Halo 4.... I don't want it past my default 25/80 setting (on my HT-RC360). If I change into that game from watching TV at half volume or something I'll be really scared lol.

Because the only cheap Pre is the Emotiva one for 600 dollars. The UMC-200 actually. http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/umc200. I'd get 7.1 instead of 7.2. I'd get 4 HDMI inputs instead of 8. A much less refined design (Emotiva's interface vs a proven Onkyo one. Just my guess but I dunno). Emotiva's room correction instead of audessy, etc. and all for 240 dollars more than a TX-NR709 (320 dollars right now refurbished at shop onkyo outlet). I did consider it, but most people agree that it's better to a receiver with preouts than a pre/pro. More features ya know? I'm going with a crown amplifier. Apparently the fan rarely if ever kicks in and I get a lot of power from it. I've heard great things on this forum about it. All in all, a TX-NR709+Crown CLX1500 (300watts at 8 ohms each channel), will cost me 670 which I think is a better deal than getting a 600 dollar TX-NR809 if all I'm paying for is more amplification and some features no one remembers to mention.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisexv6 View Post

Its funny, my brother in law said the same thing....if it doesnt have OSD of the volume he wont buy it. Me, I dont see much use for it.......Ill turn it up until I feel its loud enough, or down if its too loud, etc.
When I went from a Pioneer to an Onkyo, I expected to like the OSD volume, but it turned out to be less useful than I thought, since the Onkyo version (1) is too big and obscures a lot of the TV picture, and (2) does not move the MUTE display around to prevent burn-in. Also you might be able to get an OSD volume display with the Pioneer by making use of the control-over-HDMI feature to let the receiver use the TV's own OSD display. But it's possible that this feature only works with Pioneer TVs.

Greg Lee
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icelt View Post

Looks like others have already addressed your question but yes the loudness of each speaker should be effectively equal. Well at least at a similar level to the channel, left or right, that its associated with.
Most definitely. Look for Happy2lurk's earlier post for a detailed explanation on how to find it. But the feature you are interested in is the "HDMI pass through" setting. I have mine set to "Last" so that basically any mode the receiver is in that does not contain video, even if it is powered off, it will still pass through the Last known video signal through the HDMI Out port. Tried it last night and it works great.

I was not asking a question, but making an observation. With my 909 I got equal output from all 7 speakers. It was Left Channel in the left speakers and Right in the right, with a mix out of the center. The 1222 I have noticed that the fronts, mainly the center is noticeably louder. The first thing I did was to check the "balance" settings and they were equal. Then bumping up the back a couple dB balanced things out. And move the focal point closer to were we sit. The MCACC doesn't work well in this room. It's acoustically dead. Very plush carpeting and furniture, acoustical treatments on the ceiling and drapery that soaks up the sound. After all it's a concrete bunker, and a cozy one at that.

I have only had this for a week or so and between my contact with Pioneer in regard to "oddities" with this and its overall performance, I'm not sure just yet if I am as satisfied with the 1222 as I was with my 909. Disregarding the fact that one is analog video and the other digital (Pioneer has made some assumptions on our usage), I can't do as much with the 1222 as I am use to with the 909. But since it's a stop gap until I decide on the Elite model I ultimately want, it's OK. And it's a very good "trial by fire" indicator as to how Pioneer designs now that I value. So when looking for the next step, I will now better of Pioneer.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:18 PM
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While using HDMI pass through, i am getting sound and video from my dish network input, but only video from my PS3. They both are connected to my receiver with HDMI cable. I think I was getting sound and video both from my PS3 also. I must have changed some setting accidentally and now don't know how to fix it.

Any suggestions?
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisexv6 View Post

Its funny, my brother in law said the same thing....if it doesnt have OSD of the volume he wont buy it. Me, I dont see much use for it.......Ill turn it up until I feel its loud enough, or down if its too loud, etc.

Im not 100% sure what the differences are, but I believe the 809 has a much better quality amplification section vs the 709. Not just more power, but different design as well. If you arent using the internal amp, probably not a big deal then.

But at that point, why not just get a pre-pro?
If you guys prefer feautres vs sound quality then keep the onkyo otherwise volume osd is not big deal. Just download the app on your iphone/android and problem solved. I own denon3311, yamaha a1000, onkyo 706 / onkyo 515, and marantz sr6003. And now the sc-1222 and this pioneer is better than all others mentioned. Better sq, runs cool, excellent mobile app, powerful, audio and upscaling are very impressive.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:06 PM
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Ok, my 1222 arrived today and after many, many tries and a new thumb drive, I FINALLY got the update to install. I used a Sandisk, a Staples branded, a old, old mini usb harddrive, even tried the Sandisk SD out of my camera in a usb adapter and no joy for the update.Kept getting the error6 or bad file. Tried FAT and FAT32 formats. Went up to Staples and picked up a small PNY drive and BAM, worked first time!!! Now I can finally get to setting up everything!biggrin.gif

Samsung 51" Plasma E530, Pioneer SC-1222-K, Sony BDP-S5200, Roku 3, Custom HTPC/XBMC, KEF Q600c -center, KEF Q900- mains, Definitive Technology SM450- side surrounds, Definitive Technology SM350- rear surrounds, Custom sub 'end table' with 12" Oz Audio Matrix Elite, Crown XLS 1500 sub amp, Harmony 650 and IRule remotes
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyekode View Post

I have a pretty sensitive center and pretty insensitive left/right. MCACC did pick positive numbers for the fronts for me. Is MCACC choosing negative values for _all_ channels, even the sub? That would be a little surprising to me... Maybe although it is setting the overall level negative it is boosting some frequencies in the channel? You should be able to see this on the graphs in the iPad app or on screen. I could see it doing this if it needed to boost your low end a couple db.

As for what 0db is... That is odd. I guess this one goes to 11... er 12? smile.gif
Salem

Good to know MCACC does use the plus as well as the minus to adjust. I do not have a sub - but yes, MCACC uses negative values for all my speakers (-2db to -8.5db).

Currently, I do not have any way to use the iPad app, so cannot check for any frequency changes.
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