Living with a McIntosh MX-121 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 02-06-2013, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello all,

For a while I've been thinking about upgrading my consumer grade Denon processor in my family room to something more special. I have McIntosh processor/amp in my HT and love that. Thinking about it I may use my HT 6 - 8 hours a week, but I have the family room system on maybe 12 hours a day. Maybe I got something backwards. The family room system has a TV where we watch mostly random stuff, but moreover it feeds the whole house with music all day (7 rooms with in-wall speakers). Admittedly most of this listening is background, or news, or a game, etc., and it's nearly always on. That being said I'm tired of the uninspiring surround sound we have for regular TV stuff and it's time to upgrade. I also want to add internet radio capability and playing music from my network .

I'm really interested in the McIntosh MX121 and have read most everything here and on other forums about it. I picked up a loner unit from my dealer yesterday to give it a spin. All the threads mostly get technical, which I can appreciate (to a limit), but what I don't' see, and really want to know, is how is the unit to live with everyday? How quick/easy to use? I''m becoming a big fan of internet radio - how good is it and how easy to use on the 121? I have a big NAS server with 30 years worth of CDs ripped to it via iTunes using their lossless format - but those tracks don't seem to want to play through the 121 (this alone could be a deal killer unless I figure it out). I'm just getting started and have a lot to learn which will take a lot of time. Will that be time well spent? Am I, my wife, and teenage daughter going to be happy comfortable users of this unit all day everyday, or is it going to be be a finicky and/or quirky to use and ultimately annoying?

I should mention - the initial sound quality is, as expected, in a whole different world than the Denon, so that won't be an issue.

Thanks,

JR
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post #2 of 17 Old 02-07-2013, 12:33 PM
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It shouldn't be a problem playing back Apple lossless files from iTunes on your MX121. I'm doing it now. Just after reading your post, I opened iTunes, selected a song that I'd ripped from a CD to iTunes in Apple lossless format a long time ago. I used the AirPlay icon to send the song to the MX121. It turned on the MX121 (and the MC8207 amp connected to it) and started playing back the song. The MX121 and amp and speakers are in another room. I just did that from my desk computer and I can hear it playing in the other room. To do what I just did you need the MX121 set to "network standby" and you need the AirPlay icon in the recent iTunes versions.

I can also do the same thing from an iPad or my iPhone. And I can playback Apple lossless files from an iPod attached to the MX121.

I can also playback songs from Windows Media Player using DLNA. I can select the song from the computer or select it from the MX121.

I'm happy with the MX121; I've had it for more than 3 months.

Aha! I just reread your message. You are trying to playback Apple files from the NAS directly from the MX121, not using iTunes to play them. You could play files of other formats using a DLNA server, but I have not tried using Apple files except through iTunes or an iPad, iPhone, or iPod. You could always convert your files from Apple lossless to WAV and play them using DLNA.

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post #3 of 17 Old 02-07-2013, 12:52 PM
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The 121 is a tank. I did end up moving on to something else because I wanted some features the 121 didn't have....but I already miss the 121 in a lot of ways. Sound is great, and I never had one hdmi glitch. The thing just worked everytime. So, in that sense I think you'd be more than fine with it.

That being said, I didn't and don't use any of the streaming features you're talking about so maybe someone else can help you with those....

Good luck!

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post #4 of 17 Old 02-07-2013, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Bill, thanks. Everything you say is indeed very cool functionality but its not how I want to use "the stereo" every day. I don't want any PC involved. Also, none of our iThings hold our entire music library so none give complete satisfaction. That's why the NAS is key and I'd like an easy way to access and play music from it. I have a cheap Sonos device that does this easily but with lousy sound quality.

Mookie, thanks. I read all your early posts and excitement about the 121 and then was shocked you traded out. So I have to say I'm kinda glad you miss it - that reaffirms how good it must be.
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post #5 of 17 Old 02-07-2013, 07:13 PM
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The media servers I've seen that can run on a NAS without an additional computer are DLNA compatible ones and not Airplay.

All Airplay devices requiring iTunes running somewhere. This unfortunately means on a PC or Mac is involved at some point. A NAS that mentions iTunes only means you can mount a network share to iTunes running on a computer somewhere. For this reason I am building a slim fanless PC with a Streamcom case that can hold my entire iTunes library and run 24x7 and NOT buying a NAS.

This means anyone in my household can use their iPad remote to instantly start playing music out of the stereo without needing to touch a traditional computer.

I combined all of my house's music into a single iTunes library. It just makes everything easier. Of course it is all organized and most is ALAC. I wish Apple's time capsule could stream to AppleTV. frown.gif
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post #6 of 17 Old 02-07-2013, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Understood, but the Sonos does a really nice job accessing the NAS music, it's interface is great and anyone in my family can use it from their iPod. Would be absolutely the perfect solution if the sound quality was better. I have a thread going on a Sonos forum and will see what I learn. I also left a message at McIntosh support today but never got a call back. Will share what I learn about accessing ALAC files in the NAS.

Another question. What's the best advice to browse music folders from the 121? The screen display is almost useless with a big library. The only way it seems to work is that you have to scroll down alphabetically through the folders. painful! I'll never be able to get to Warren Zevon again...
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post #7 of 17 Old 02-07-2013, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_spyder View Post

Understood, but the Sonos does a really nice job accessing the NAS music, it's interface is great and anyone in my family can use it from their iPod. Would be absolutely the perfect solution if the sound quality was better. I have a thread going on a Sonos forum and will see what I learn. I also left a message at McIntosh support today but never got a call back. Will share what I learn about accessing ALAC files in the NAS.

Another question. What's the best advice to browse music folders from the 121? The screen display is almost useless with a big library. The only way it seems to work is that you have to scroll down alphabetically through the folders. painful! I'll never be able to get to Warren Zevon again...

I am not sure on folder browsing on the 121. I use a tablet to browse library folders, or an AppleTV ($99) to do it directly on the TV screen. I'm not sure how invested you are in ALAC / Apple products. If I was using another media server I would probably use FLAC over ALAC just because there is more support.
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post #8 of 17 Old 02-17-2013, 10:29 AM
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I use my audio request f2 to acces my nas I have just a little over 12000 songs from my cd collection and from iTunes usein their netsync for iTunes
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post #9 of 17 Old 02-17-2013, 06:02 PM
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Do you have a Sonos Connect that can plug into the receiver via a digital cable? That will produce sound quality just as good as the McIntosh (or any other receiver) streaming directly, and the interface as you know is better than any receiver. There are some upgrades available for the Sonos Connect that reduce the amount of Jitter and improve quality further, but its probably not worth the expense for general whole house music listening.

I can't comment on the MX121 too much, but I have had an older MX119 for a while and it is rock solid. It operates flawlessly and responds to remote commands instantly. It doesn't have most of the new network features of the MX121 though. In my opinion, an external device such as the Sonos or Apple TV will work better than any network enabled receiver/processor. All of the receivers I have seen have very slow and clunky network interfaces. Ok for once in a while, but not something you want to use everytime you want to listen to music.

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post #10 of 17 Old 02-17-2013, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I had a MX121 at home for a week and gave it a very good shake down. Sadly I have returned it, but it is still nagging at me.

My real test with the unit was all about usability as I simply had total confidence that I'd love the sound when properly installed. So for this test my hook-up was simple and not idea for sound, but it let me use all the features. My goals were great ease of use as the everyday family stereo, easy playability of our large music library on our NAS, easy streaming of internet radio stations and services, and of course great sound.

I'm afraid that natively the 121 fails pretty badly at NAS file access/playback and isn't so great with internet radio. Once playing both of these sound great as expected - no issue there. More details:

NAS files: the 121 found my NAS and music folders pretty easily. However the unit gives you no way to search or look around your library. You have to start at "A" and scroll down one song at a time to find your target. This could hardly be worse. I never had the patience to even get to "B", and I sure as heck will never to ZZ Top. Also, the 121 will not play ALAC files off my NAS, which is what the large majority of my library is ripped into (I know I could convert the all easily).

The internet radio has potential but the set up of stations is tricky at first. It's best done online and I'm ok with that. Then there is a confusion of terminology between "favorites" and "presets." Once that is figured out it's not too hard to set the presets. I thought this would make it easy, like an FM radio, but the front panel two-line display is sort of dumb. The top line shows the preset number and the song being played - that's good. But the second line is a running timer counting up the seconds you have been tuned to that station (obviously music track style). Totally worthless for radio. One of these lines needs to show the station name otherwise (unless you have a great memory) you don't know what station your on. Very annoying.

I tried the deremote app and the native web page based control. Neither make the experience better for files or radio - but are helpful for setup, source selection, etc.

There is a way to do all this on the 121 beautifully and easily however, and that's by using AirPlay with iTunes, and the Apple Remote app on your iThing. In contrast to the direct use of the 121 as above, this is terrific. Music searching is iTunes, and through it you can play ALAC files off the NAS, but not FLAC (I think). Also, iTunes is quite rudimentary in how it does internet radio and not easy to use. The biggest downside, to me anyway, is the need to have a PC/mac on your network running 100% of the time with iTunes running on it. I simply don't want to have that as a necessary part of my system. Anyone who is happy with this need will likely be happy with AirPlay over the 121. I admit it's quite slick and probably a smart choice for McIntosh to have built it this way and look cool in reviews and with many consumers, but to me it's a bit of a cheat and doesn't match well with McIntosh's culture. But that's just my opinion. For comparison I think the McIntosh AP-1 iPad app is beautiful and works great controlling local music on your iThing. I was hoping this was the interlace I'd be using with the 121 - but sadly not so. In fact there is no McIntosh labeled app for the 121.

I spoke with Chuck in support at McIntosh about all this and he pretty much confirmed that this is just the way it is and they have no near term plan to invest better apps and better usability natively on the unit. AirPlay is the answer. I'd be surprised if this strategy can hold out. It seems every audio equipment maker is making apps these days and they keep getting better. Apps will become a competitive differentiation and McIntosh will fall way behind if they are not working on it now.

So I loved the idea of the 121 at first but now I have to wonder why they bothered to put in file streaming and internet services that are practically unusable from their interfaces. I like the idea of a processor half the price of the 151 and oddly for that alone it might be a great choice. And that's what's nagging at me - I might just buy it, hook up my Sonos, and ignore all the native internet stuff. What a shame! Or maybe I'll wait and hope they get it right someday with an MX125...

They are soooo close - it just needs better usability.

One comment on the Sonos. I was really unhappy with the sound at first (which led me to all this testing of alternatives) but after two weeks and a few different configurations and format testing/learning I have found it to pretty darn good. Connected to my home theater rig (MX135 and MC207) and comparing same files played from my NAS and on my SACD player I usually couldn't tell the difference. To my surprise it might just end up the winner.
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post #11 of 17 Old 02-18-2013, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_spyder View Post


So I loved the idea of the 121 at first but now I have to wonder why they bothered to put in file streaming and internet services that are practically unusable from their interfaces.

They are soooo close - it just needs better usability.

In my experience this has been the case with all Receivers/Processors that I tried, as well as Bluray players and most other devices that have integrated network features. I think the audio equipment manufacturers are still a long way from matching the usability of a Sonos or iTunes Airplay system, and I question whether its even worth trying...

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post #12 of 17 Old 02-22-2013, 06:50 PM
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I’ve been living with the MX121 for about 8 months. My amp is the Mac MC8207. I mostly listen to Blue Ray, SACD, and more recently high resolution music down loads from HD Tracks. TV is a Panasonic 65” plasma, VT30. Surround speaker are B&W in-wall, main speaker Sonus Faber Grand Piano with a Mac center channel speaker. Blue Ray player is OPPO 105. Media player J. River Media Center 18. NAS WD Live Book. Sub-woofer Gallo TR3 with Maple Shade modifications. The system took many weeks to break-in. After that time the sound is absolutely incredible.
That being said, here are the big problems with the MX121:
1. I listen to internet radio throughout the day. The Mac has a good internet interface package. During playback of internet radio the Mac has station graphics displayed on my Panasonic. They cycle on and off the screed about every 45 seconds. After about 4 week of listening to my new system I noticed there were images on the Panasonic plasma screen. The images were the graphics from the Mac’s internet radio software. The problem was “image retention” and screen burn-in of the Mac graphics. The Mac Internet section is actually the Denon chip set and circuit board according to my audio dealer. Neither Mac nor Panasonic will repair the problem although still under warranty. This is very disappointing and not expected from a $6,000 piece of equipment.
2. I recently became interested in high resolution flac music files. My thought was to play music through the J. River MC and via the Mac. The problem is the Mac’s processor cannot handle the highest resolution music file, 194kHz/24bit. Basically nothing happens when these files are queued up. Very disappointing especially from a Mac. My solution was to purchase a new OPPO 105 player that has great networking capability and sell my 6 month old OPPO 95.
3. All Blue Ray videos are handled by the OPPO processor, bypassing the Mac electronics.

Bottom line, if you want to only listen to music the MX121 is a very pricey way to go. The processor for flac files and video graphics are very disappointing. I cannot recommend the MX121. Looking into a new or used Classe CP-800 processor at the moment to replace the MX121.
Dr. Kay
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post #13 of 17 Old 02-24-2013, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drkay01 View Post

Bottom line, if you want to only listen to music the MX121 is a very pricey way to go. The processor for flac files and video graphics are very disappointing. I cannot recommend the MX121. Looking into a new or used Classe CP-800 processor at the moment to replace the MX121.
Dr. Kay

I've had the mx121 since the day it came out. It is a very capable A/V processor. I think it should be pointed out that although the mx121 does not support the 32/192 hi-res flac audio format, it does have support for 24/96 hi-res flac files. Not all files are available in 32/192 but you can definitely most music as 24/96. If there is actual advantage to using the highest bit depth, that is a question for another forum. However it should be noted that the mx121 can natively handle some hd-flac file playback.

Additionally, the video processing on the mx121 is very good as well. A feature that I appreciate is the ability to use the video processing to generate an onscreen display over hdmi showing volume and source for all video inputs including blu-ray. This works essentially like a pass through feature with no additional processing and no loss of quality of the sources when generating the osd menu. Of course if I need to process the video the mx121 has that capability as well. I use it to upscale my gen 1 AppleTV to 1080p. The ability to process the video is input selectable and as far as can tell results in no degradation in quality on a properly calibrated display.

As for the image retention/burn-in issue you experienced that is unfortunate. However this is a problem with the TV and not the mx121. This occurs most often when a display is not properly calibrated and is operated in high contrast or "torch" mode with relatively static images or frequently repeated images. Typically with a properly calibrated display, image retention isn't much of a problem as the display is not driven hard enough to cause retention. Unfortunately the manufacturer isn't likely to cover repair because they provide warnings about image retention in the manual as well as how to avoid it. Therefore if image retention develops it will not be covered under the warranty as the display was operated in a manner inconsistent with the instructions.
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post #14 of 17 Old 04-17-2013, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_spyder View Post

Well I had a MX121 at home for a week and gave it a very good shake down. Sadly I have returned it, but it is still nagging at me.

My real test with the unit was all about usability as I simply had total confidence that I'd love the sound when properly installed. So for this test my hook-up was simple and not idea for sound, but it let me use all the features. My goals were great ease of use as the everyday family stereo, easy playability of our large music library on our NAS, easy streaming of internet radio stations and services, and of course great sound.

I'm afraid that natively the 121 fails pretty badly at NAS file access/playback and isn't so great with internet radio. Once playing both of these sound great as expected - no issue there. More details:

NAS files: the 121 found my NAS and music folders pretty easily. However the unit gives you no way to search or look around your library. You have to start at "A" and scroll down one song at a time to find your target. This could hardly be worse. I never had the patience to even get to "B", and I sure as heck will never to ZZ Top. Also, the 121 will not play ALAC files off my NAS, which is what the large majority of my library is ripped into (I know I could convert the all easily).

The internet radio has potential but the set up of stations is tricky at first. It's best done online and I'm ok with that. Then there is a confusion of terminology between "favorites" and "presets." Once that is figured out it's not too hard to set the presets. I thought this would make it easy, like an FM radio, but the front panel two-line display is sort of dumb. The top line shows the preset number and the song being played - that's good. But the second line is a running timer counting up the seconds you have been tuned to that station (obviously music track style). Totally worthless for radio. One of these lines needs to show the station name otherwise (unless you have a great memory) you don't know what station your on. Very annoying.

I tried the deremote app and the native web page based control. Neither make the experience better for files or radio - but are helpful for setup, source selection, etc.

There is a way to do all this on the 121 beautifully and easily however, and that's by using AirPlay with iTunes, and the Apple Remote app on your iThing. In contrast to the direct use of the 121 as above, this is terrific. Music searching is iTunes, and through it you can play ALAC files off the NAS, but not FLAC (I think). Also, iTunes is quite rudimentary in how it does internet radio and not easy to use. The biggest downside, to me anyway, is the need to have a PC/mac on your network running 100% of the time with iTunes running on it. I simply don't want to have that as a necessary part of my system. Anyone who is happy with this need will likely be happy with AirPlay over the 121. I admit it's quite slick and probably a smart choice for McIntosh to have built it this way and look cool in reviews and with many consumers, but to me it's a bit of a cheat and doesn't match well with McIntosh's culture. But that's just my opinion. For comparison I think the McIntosh AP-1 iPad app is beautiful and works great controlling local music on your iThing. I was hoping this was the interlace I'd be using with the 121 - but sadly not so. In fact there is no McIntosh labeled app for the 121.

I spoke with Chuck in support at McIntosh about all this and he pretty much confirmed that this is just the way it is and they have no near term plan to invest better apps and better usability natively on the unit. AirPlay is the answer. I'd be surprised if this strategy can hold out. It seems every audio equipment maker is making apps these days and they keep getting better. Apps will become a competitive differentiation and McIntosh will fall way behind if they are not working on it now.

So I loved the idea of the 121 at first but now I have to wonder why they bothered to put in file streaming and internet services that are practically unusable from their interfaces. I like the idea of a processor half the price of the 151 and oddly for that alone it might be a great choice. And that's what's nagging at me - I might just buy it, hook up my Sonos, and ignore all the native internet stuff. What a shame! Or maybe I'll wait and hope they get it right someday with an MX125...

They are soooo close - it just needs better usability.

One comment on the Sonos. I was really unhappy with the sound at first (which led me to all this testing of alternatives) but after two weeks and a few different configurations and format testing/learning I have found it to pretty darn good. Connected to my home theater rig (MX135 and MC207) and comparing same files played from my NAS and on my SACD player I usually couldn't tell the difference. To my surprise it might just end up the winner.

Any reason you didn't use a good DLNA control point app like the Linn Kinsky app? That should be able to brower your NAS and drive the DLNA renderer in the MX121 (in theory).
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post #15 of 17 Old 04-17-2013, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I did try a couple DLNA apps including Linn but really didn't get them to do anything for me, but this could have been my own user error. I don't remember the details now.
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post #16 of 17 Old 06-04-2013, 01:25 PM
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What was your choice for a pre in place of the MX121 that was more "livable"?
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post #17 of 17 Old 06-04-2013, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I found a great deal on a one year old MX151 and brought it home. It is simply astoundingly good sounding and usable. The room correction features really changed my listening experience. I went with an upgraded Sonos (the Wyred4Sound conversion) for all my streaming needs and I am very harpy with it. The usability is still pure Sonos (excellent), and the sound is noticeably improved to my ears, despite the debate seen in other threads on this subject.
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