Pioneer and Elite receivers 2013 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 299 Old 12-28-2013, 08:23 PM
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Thanks ALL, I see I came to the right place. All my questions are answered. I'll post back any results.

This forum has class and great folks. Other than being treated with great respect, the absence of the "Use the Search, and Google is your friend police" is refreshing.

Thanks Again

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post #182 of 299 Old 12-31-2013, 06:35 PM
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Hi Guys,

I messaged Pioneer on 12/28/13 about the SC-XX Elite line vs the SC-XXXX-K line and commented on the lack of info on the site in regards to why one would choose one over the other, and got the response below.

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc., and for your thoughtful feedback regarding our website, which has been relayed to our IT Department for their review.

SC-75 and SC-1523-K have the same features, specifications, and price. The SC-75 has a two-year warranty vs. one-year warranty for the SC-1523-K, so it would be the more practical investment.

I'm still researching and shopping them all and trying to justify putting my Onkyo TX-SR800 in the bedroom and forking out approx $1k +/- on a new AVR. Loving it.

Thanks

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post #183 of 299 Old 01-01-2014, 06:25 PM
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I have a Pioneer receiver which is pretty much the same as the SC-72 (it is an SC-1328-K which appears to be a special model for Best Buy Canada/Futureshop) and one thing I don't like about this receiver is that when you change inputs it shows the input name for a second or two but then it switches back and shows the current audio mode (like Stereo, DolbyDigital or DTS). I would prefer if the screen permanently showed the input name. Does anyone know how to do that?
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post #184 of 299 Old 01-01-2014, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wayner9 View Post

I have a Pioneer receiver which is pretty much the same as the SC-72 (it is an SC-1328-K which appears to be a special model for Best Buy Canada/Futureshop) and one thing I don't like about this receiver is that when you change inputs it shows the input name for a second or two but then it switches back and shows the current audio mode (like Stereo, DolbyDigital or DTS). I would prefer if the screen permanently showed the input name. Does anyone know how to do that?
sorry mate'' the AVR won't do that ...

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post #185 of 299 Old 01-01-2014, 08:01 PM
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C'est dommage. In my house I have a few Yamaha amps and a couple of Pioneer - in general I prefer the Yamaha and this is another reason.
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post #186 of 299 Old 01-04-2014, 07:31 PM
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Hi Guys, I have an SC-75 to be shipped on Monday.

I'll be coming from a 2003 Onkyo TX-SR800. I confess this AVR is WAY over my head but that is what the Onkyo was when I got it and after much trial and error I got her set up to sound great.

HDMI connectivity has me doing it again and I hope I get 11 years out of this one too.

I'm reading the manual now and can tell some of this is going to be fun and some perhaps frustrating.
I hope I can depend on you guys to get me jump started.

My signature shows my speakers and devices and I have an Oppo BDP-93 in transit also. The dominating or most used will be the TV/SC-75/Cable Box/Oppo. The other devices may be moved out and zones will come later as will the Ethernet connection.

This is going to be a whole new world of learning curves for me. I will be running 7.1.

I'm reading the manual slow and easy but want to ask a couple for now.

My immediate concerns are:
  1. Out of the box, what defaults would you go after to change if any. I ask because of what I read about phase control.
  2. The Sub woofer connection? I have a picture of the subs connection panel below.
  3. I am basically a newbee for sure and am reading but if there is any tips between the lines you guys have please shoot.

Thanks


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post #187 of 299 Old 01-04-2014, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 2therock View Post

Hi Guys, I have an SC-75 to be shipped on Monday.

I'll be coming from a 2003 Onkyo TX-SR800. I confess this AVR is WAY over my head but that is what the Onkyo was when I got it and after much trial and error I got her set up to sound great.

HDMI connectivity has me doing it again and I hope I get 11 years out of this one too.

I'm reading the manual now and can tell some of this is going to be fun and some perhaps frustrating.
I hope I can depend on you guys to get me jump started.

My signature shows my speakers and devices and I have an Oppo BDP-93 in transit also. The dominating or most used will be the TV/SC-75/Cable Box/Oppo. The other devices may be moved out and zones will come later as will the Ethernet connection.

This is going to be a whole new world of learning curves for me. I will be running 7.1.

I'm reading the manual slow and easy but want to ask a couple for now.

My immediate concerns are:
  1. Out of the box, what defaults would you go after to change if any. I ask because of what I read about phase control.
  2. The Sub woofer connection? I have a picture of the subs connection panel below.
  3. I am basically a newbee for sure and am reading but if there is any tips between the lines you guys have please shoot.

Thanks

..congrats..well don't be alarm ..your going to be fine.. just ask for help when you get stock...we are just a few clicks away
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post #188 of 299 Old 01-04-2014, 10:00 PM
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..congrats..well don't be alarm ..your going to be fine.. just ask for help when you get stock...we are just a few clicks away

Thank You,

I guess because the manual doesn't specify I do need to know about the Sub connection.
With the Onkyo I had an RCA Y-adapter from the sub out to both RCA jacks on the sub.
It does indicate a single sub can connect from the No.1 Sub out.

Do I do as before and Y-adapt to the Sub jacks?
Or use the LFE?

Can't wait.

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post #189 of 299 Old 01-05-2014, 06:40 AM
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Use the LFE connection. It bypasses the subwoofer's internal phase and low pass filter controls so that the receiver can manage them, which is necessary so that a modern digital AVR like the SC75 can do its job properly.
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post #190 of 299 Old 01-05-2014, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Use the LFE connection. It bypasses the subwoofer's internal phase and low pass filter controls so that the receiver can manage them, which is necessary so that a modern digital AVR like the SC75 can do its job properly.

Thanks, I'll try it. I take it the FREQ knob will be moot and not matter where its set?

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post #191 of 299 Old 01-05-2014, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2therock View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Use the LFE connection. It bypasses the subwoofer's internal phase and low pass filter controls so that the receiver can manage them, which is necessary so that a modern digital AVR like the SC75 can do its job properly.

Thanks, I'll try it. I take it the FREQ knob will be moot and not matter where its set?
Right. That's the low pass filter control I mentioned above. It wouldn't hurt to set it to its maximum frequency, though.
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post #192 of 299 Old 01-05-2014, 08:09 AM
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^^^... well its all depends on how he intends to use the AVR..using the LFE input ... is all well and good... but he will have to do some work in the AVR SETTINGS ... 2therock you have to set the AVR SUB-WOOER .setup.... to ( plus ON) ..don't forget .. because you will be back ..asking why is there no bass ..or why is my sub-woofer not playing when i am listen to music .. so if you are going to use the LFE input to hook-up your sub-woofer ...when you done with mic and MCACC ..go back in the settings..and set the sub-woofer to plus on...
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post #193 of 299 Old 01-05-2014, 09:15 AM
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^^
and that may not result in the best or most even bass response in the room. the PLUS setting is usually NOT recommended unless it's for a specific piece of music, or result. the most optimized use of a subwoofer is to set the speakers to SMALL so that the sub handles all bass, including the LFE channel, blow the crossover point selected. that way it will be sent bass even with 2 channel sources. optimized bass response will not result from the PLUS setting. this is due to specific wave cancellations or reinforcements because of interferences between speakers and the sub. setting the main L/R speakers to SMALL will accomplish the intended purpose of having the sub play with stereo sources and not have the same deficiencies. even Pioneer warns of the possibility of PLUS resulting in worse bass in the manual.

it's there for those that want to experiment, as I myself have done, or if you want to set the main L/R speakers to LARGE and still want sub use on mainly 2 ch sources. but that doesn't mean it will be the smoothest, flattish bass or even the most volume - it will be very freq, room dimension & speaker type and placement specific.

feel free to try it and decide. THX recommends all speakers set to SMALL, crossover @ 80 Hz, providing speakers aren't small satellites with limited bass response, and not using the double-bass or what Pioneer calls PLUS sub setting. and there is much acoustic research to back up these recommendations.
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post #194 of 299 Old 01-05-2014, 01:16 PM
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Thanks Guys, No simple answer I guess but at least I now know some of the options.

FYI:
My Fronts are 28Hz to 20kHz
My surrounds are 37Hz to 20kHz
My center is 52Hz to 20kHz

These speakers are large for sure and are known for great bass handling capabilities.
I do understand setting them to small may end up being a requirement.

How would MCACC like it if I left it as I have it now with a Sub-out to a Y-Splitter?

Currently I have amazing bass. The Volume on the sub is set to less than half.

I just went through my Onkyo setup and in my speaker config they are all on Large, and the crossover is on 60.
To my dismay I see I have a LFE level control. Its @ 0. Heh. All this time I may have been able to do better.

Since she is on the way out I will be experimenting with the LFE connection and settings while I wait for FedEx.

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post #195 of 299 Old 01-05-2014, 03:22 PM
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Before the advent of AV receivers with bass management we all used to integrate our subwoofers to our main speakers with the adjustments (level and frequency) on the subwoofer. We used to get excellent results. I still do this even with the home theater, mostly because I'm primarily a music listener and I don't want crazy bass. I just want a subtle support and extension for the woofers in my main speakers. LFE doesn't matter to me so much but, strangely, my setup still reproduces it with wall shaking vigor.

Here is how I do it. If you want to use the receiver LFE port then do that. Set the crossover to 80 hz and the speakers to large. Turn volume and frequency to low. Put on some music with what you view as typical or average bass content. Raise the woofer level slowly until you can just begin to hear it support the bass in your mains. Then raise the frequency control until you "tune out" the mid bass rise. You can tweak from there as you work with different content.

The 80hz, small speaker rule is the best way to go for LFE and soundtracks. It works well with music also. My system works better for me with music mostly because the bass in my towers is a little on the weak side. I want to support that bass without drowning out the woofers and without getting what people refer to as chest thumping bass. That isn't the kind of bass I like. I prefer accurate bass. Works for me. Try it. If you don't like it, set the speakers to small.
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post #196 of 299 Old 01-05-2014, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Before the advent of AV receivers with bass management we all used to integrate our subwoofers to our main speakers with the adjustments (level and frequency) on the subwoofer. We used to get excellent results. I still do this even with the home theater, mostly because I'm primarily a music listener and I don't want crazy bass. I just want a subtle support and extension for the woofers in my main speakers. LFE doesn't matter to me so much but, strangely, my setup still reproduces it with wall shaking vigor.

Here is how I do it. If you want to use the receiver LFE port then do that. Set the crossover to 80 hz and the speakers to large. Turn volume and frequency to low. Put on some music with what you view as typical or average bass content. Raise the woofer level slowly until you can just begin to hear it support the bass in your mains. Then raise the frequency control until you "tune out" the mid bass rise. You can tweak from there as you work with different content.

The 80hz, small speaker rule is the best way to go for LFE and soundtracks. It works well with music also. My system works better for me with music mostly because the bass in my towers is a little on the weak side. I want to support that bass without drowning out the woofers and without getting what people refer to as chest thumping bass. That isn't the kind of bass I like. I prefer accurate bass. Works for me. Try it. If you don't like it, set the speakers to small.

Thanks I Will.

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post #197 of 299 Old 01-05-2014, 05:39 PM
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I almost forgot. You need to set the subwoofer to plus which will add it to stereo playback.
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post #198 of 299 Old 01-05-2014, 06:08 PM
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Thanks, I now wait for the arrival.

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post #199 of 299 Old 01-09-2014, 07:01 PM
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It Begins. She sits on the dining table waiting for the weekend. I ran the Ethernet cable today. I also wait for a mint Oppo BDP-93 to arrive tomorrow.

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post #200 of 299 Old 01-11-2014, 02:12 PM
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Well, I see now I am in trouble.

I have it installed in 7.1, ran MCACC. I it seems no matter what it is only outputting to stereo to the fronts and displays stereo.
If I cycle through the THX/ Favorites button some of those seem to output to the surrounds but I have to go over and put my ear to it. The channel/speaker icons on the units display only indicate R and L.

Also, how does one kill ECO mode. I hit that to see what it did and now I can hardly see the display. And there seems to be no way to reverse out of modes1 & 2. not even cycling power.

Thanks

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post #201 of 299 Old 01-11-2014, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2therock View Post

Well, I see now I am in trouble.

I have it installed in 7.1, ran MCACC. I it seems no matter what it is only outputting to stereo to the fronts and displays stereo.
If I cycle through the THX/ Favorites button some of those seem to output to the surrounds but I have to go over and put my ear to it. The channel/speaker icons on the units display only indicate R and L.

you're not in trouble, not yet anyway smile.gif

Stereo on the front panel indicates you are in....Stereo audio mode smile.gif you can press the THX button but the easiest thing to keep in mind is Stereo is one of the Auto Surround modes. the others are ALC, Optimum, Direct (which plays exactly what's on the disc no added processing, 5.1 stays 5.1, etc), Pure Direct (turns off MCACC and all processing). Standard button is what you use to add Dolby Prologic IIx, IIz, Neo X modes to 2 and 5 channel sources to derive 7.1 (rears), 9.1 (heights or wides).

if you play a DVD/BD with 5.1 in Stereo mode, all the surround & center will be folded into the L/R channels for 2 ch only, doesn't matter what you select on the disc, all you will get is stereo so you need to learn what modes are available to get surround channels, either as recorded or processing added to get added channels.

the indicator lights are for the input audio not the output audio, so if you play a CD, 2 ch broadcast, 2 ch Dolby Digital disc, all you will see lit will be the L/R lights. you add the processing to get 5.1/7.1 from a 2 ch source.

so everything is OK and working exactly as intended the way you are describing it. And also keep in mind that the surround effect from adding THX or Dolby Prologic IIx etc to 2 channel source is highly dependent on the recording itself. surround processing uses phase cues and out of phase sound to artificially create the surrounds and rears. this technique goes all the way back to the 70's quadraphonic era smile.gif some recordings will create a nice ambient soundfield, some may actually sound like the surrounds are discrete channels but some have very little sound being pushed to the surrounds. it all depends on how it was engineered.

I suggest picking up that manual again and reading all about the surround modes and how to access them with the remote buttons.

enjoy! biggrin.gif
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It Begins. She sits on the dining table waiting for the weekend. I ran the Ethernet cable today. I also wait for a mint Oppo BDP-93 to arrive tomorrow.
Photo (Click to show)

When you have time I suggest taking a look through these threads, and possibly subscribing to them as well:

Official Pioneer SC-75/77/79 Thread

Pioneer Elite SC-75/77/79 Anticipation Thread

"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread

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Originally Posted by 2therock View Post

Also, how does one kill ECO mode. I hit that to see what it did and now I can hardly see the display. And there seems to be no way to reverse out of modes1 & 2. not even cycling power.

Thanks

See my post here: Official Pioneer SC-75/77/79 Thread - Page 5 Post #123

The remote takes a bit of learning, but I found that it is pretty usable once I became accustomed to it.
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post #203 of 299 Old 01-11-2014, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

I almost forgot. You need to set the subwoofer to plus which will add it to stereo playback.

This is not generally recommended as it will send the same bass to both the main speakers and subwoofer(s) and may result in cancellation of some of the bass. Setting the speakers to small, which will result in the bass management system fully directing the bass frequencies below the crossover to the subwoofer is usually preferable.
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post #204 of 299 Old 01-11-2014, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2therock View Post

Thanks Guys, No simple answer I guess but at least I now know some of the options.

FYI:
My Fronts are 28Hz to 20kHz
My surrounds are 37Hz to 20kHz
My center is 52Hz to 20kHz

These speakers are large for sure and are known for great bass handling capabilities.
I do understand setting them to small may end up being a requirement.

Just understand that if you set your speakers to large, and you play material that has no dedicated LFE channel (such as standard CDs, other 2 channel audio or movies or TV with Dolby Stereo (matrixed)) you will have nothing output to your subwoofer. Only the variations of Dolby Digital, DTS, multi-channel LPCM, and multi-channel SACD contain dedicated LFE channels, and even then they are not always used.

The question then becomes whether your main speakers or your subwoofers are better at handling the bass frequencies of the non-LFE channels. In most cases, the subwoofer is the better option.


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Originally Posted by 2therock View Post

How would MCACC like it if I left it as I have it now with a Sub-out to a Y-Splitter?

If you are talking about using a Y-splitter to connect to the L/R inputs on your subs, I don't recommend that, however it's not a matter of how MCACC would like it. The left/right inputs on your subwoofer almost certainly go through the adjustable low pass filter (controlled by the FREQ 50-150 knob). The Pioneer has a crossover network built into it for the bass frequencies, so connecting it that way would result in the bass going through 2 low pass filters. It is desirable to only go through one if that is an option. It appears that connecting to the LFE input on your subs would bypass their internal low pass filter, although I'd recommend setting the FREQ knob all the way up to 150 just in case it doesn't.

Now if you are talking about just connecting a Y-splitter at the back of the Pioneer to split out to each of the LFE inputs on your subs, I would say that shouldn't be a problem, but it shouldn't be necessary either as the SC-75 has two subwoofer output jacks.
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post #205 of 299 Old 01-11-2014, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2therock View Post

Hi Guys, I have an SC-75 to be shipped on Monday.

I'll be coming from a 2003 Onkyo TX-SR800. I confess this AVR is WAY over my head but that is what the Onkyo was when I got it and after much trial and error I got her set up to sound great.

HDMI connectivity has me doing it again and I hope I get 11 years out of this one too.

My immediate concerns are:
  1. Out of the box, what defaults would you go after to change if any. I ask because of what I read about phase control.
  2. The Sub woofer connection? I have a picture of the subs connection panel below.
  3. I am basically a newbee for sure and am reading but if there is any tips between the lines you guys have please shoot.

Thanks

I think you will be very pleased with the Pioneer. I very hesitantly upgraded to the SC-77 from an 11 year old Sony receiver for the same reason, the desire for HDMI connectivity plus the ability to listen to the advanced lossless codecs on Blu-ray. I loved my old Sony, and was just not convinced that the Pioneer would sound any better. However, after several months with the SC-77 I find myself constantly wanting to turn it on and listen to music on it, which I just can't say of my old Sony. If the SC-75 sounds a bit harsh in the higher frequencies at first, give it some time. I found my SC-77 harsh initially, but I'm fairly well convinced that these need a break in period to get them warmed up to their best sound. I don't notice that harshness anymore.

Regarding your immediate concerns, I use different defaults on different inputs. If you decide to run your speakers as small, then I recommend setting those first and then running Auto MCACC with the "Keep SP System" option selected. If you run Full Auto MCACC, it will likely set all your speakers to large. If you then subsequently switch them to small without re-running Auto MCACC, the MCACC calibration will not be correct and will likely result in less bass output.

FMW's suggestion of manually setting the subwoofer output level will also negate the MCACC's adjustment of subwoofer output. I find that the MCACC's setting of subwoofer output works extremely well for music, particularly for CDs and music on sources without a dedicated LFE channel.
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post #206 of 299 Old 01-11-2014, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 2therock View Post

Well, I see now I am in trouble.

I have it installed in 7.1, ran MCACC. I it seems no matter what it is only outputting to stereo to the fronts and displays stereo.
If I cycle through the THX/ Favorites button some of those seem to output to the surrounds but I have to go over and put my ear to it. The channel/speaker icons on the units display only indicate R and L.

Also, how does one kill ECO mode. I hit that to see what it did and now I can hardly see the display. And there seems to be no way to reverse out of modes1 & 2. not even cycling power.

Thanks

Well things have improved. I don't know whay but it finally started decoding other than stereo. After I put in the Pearl Harbor DVD and set it to play DTS, when I returned to TV/Cable listening it was outputting to more channels that 2.

I did the Pearl Harbor DVD also to hear that 1st torpedo explosion as the sailors were watching it come in on the scaffold. The sub really does a great job there on the Onkyo. Its not as good on the SC-75 (Yet). I have some dialing to do.
I did the Gladiator DVD to test the treble in the opening battle. As predicted due the the way they mixed it it was too harsh. Just one tick on the X fixed it.

The reply about turning off ECO is much appreciated.

I am however disturbed in how it takes it 7 to 10 seconds to change channels on the cable box. Ugly.

Thanks

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post #207 of 299 Old 01-11-2014, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

you're not in trouble, not yet anyway smile.gif

I suggest picking up that manual again and reading all about the surround modes and how to access them with the remote buttons.

enjoy! biggrin.gif

Thanks, I am going through the paces, experimenting and reading. I have the pdf on my laptop beside me on all the time. But.......... even with that, without you guys it would be twice as grueling.

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post #208 of 299 Old 01-11-2014, 11:11 PM
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Thanks Guys, My status now is:

I am yet to try my speakers to small. For now I have been toying with them at large and with and without LFE. They really handle the lows great and for some reason I think going to small with be wasting some of that but but I have to get over it. Must be the macho "Large" thing eh?

As for the long time to change channels. Comcast talked me into trying Cisco boxes and I will be swapping them back Monday to make sure that's not the problem. I have one in the bedroom that's slower then the Scientific Atlanta box it replaced and its not going through AVR.

When I change channels the Comcast guide banner flashes, a quick message "No Sync Signal" flashes, then the TV shows "Input 1" , then "HDMI1", then the next channel displays. It varies from 7 to 10 seconds. See video. 4.6 MB.

Questions:

When running MCACC and it says the Sub is to loud and to lower it, do I do this at the Gain knob or in the Levels.

This "Plus" setting? Is this the "Loudness Plus" in the THX Audio Settings section? Its the only place I see the word Plus.

Thanks

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post #209 of 299 Old 01-11-2014, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2therock View Post

Questions:

When running MCACC and it says the Sub is to loud and to lower it, do I do this at the Gain knob or in the Levels.

I've never seen this or heard of anyone getting this message. I would have to assume that it means to lower the control on the subwoofer itself. MCACC is adjusting the levels on the SC-75, so there would be no reason for it to ask you to change those.
Quote:
This "Plus" setting? Is this the "Loudness Plus" in the THX Audio Settings section? Its the only place I see the word Plus.

If you are referring to the Plus setting in regards to the subwoofer, this is one of the SW speaker settings. Refer to page 99 in the Operating Instructions, under Speaker Setting. This is the setting that results in bass from the main channels being reproduced on both the main speakers and subwoofer simultaneously. Pioneer warns "This may not, however, yield the best bass results. Depending on the speaker placement of your room you may actually experience a decrease in the amount of bass due low frequency cancellations."

Edit: Corrected link to SC-75 Operating Instructions. I mistakenly had it linked to the SC-77 instructions instead.
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post #210 of 299 Old 01-11-2014, 11:39 PM
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When running MCACC and it says the Sub is to loud and to lower it, do I do this at the Gain knob or in the Levels.

Move the gain down at that point, then let mcacc finish.
let mcacc do its thing, but afterwards, go into mcacc settings and adjust the level of the sub from the receivers menu. I set my gain about at 50% on the sub and then never touch it. I then make a couple of different mcacc memories for different viewing, one for movies, one for tv, one for music, and each setting I manually adjust the level of the sub from within the mcacc setting , under channel levels if I remember correctly.

By the way, the receiver almost always says the sub is too loud, when in reality(for me) if I leave it at the level it suggests, it is non existent IMO. The sub level is the only thing I need to adjust after mcacc is completed as I feel the system sounds great after mcacc does its' thing... well, except for the sub level.
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