Onkyo TX-NR1007 AVR vs. Crown XLS-202 vs. Behringer INuke DSP 3000 in room Omnimic frequency response graph comparison - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 02-09-2013, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I've got two amps handy and my Onkyo TX NR1007 - let's compare the FR on these three and see how much variance there is in audible frequency between these audio power sources. Anyone care to hazard a guess on the result?

I'll be measuring the FR response of a pair of eD Cinema 12s. For the comparison I'll turn off the subs. Set the Onkyo AVR to Pure Audio mode - NO EQ will be applied in PURE Audio Mode. The speakers will be set to large full range - SPL levels will be matched for each capture. The frequency responses will be captured by averaging 25 captures. My room and mic setup will be identical for each capture. 1/12 smoothing will be used.

This is an exercise in curiosity. I'm purchasing some new speakers soon and may choose to power them with an external amp. I'd like to know the differences or possibly lack there of.


EDIT - photobucket link to the FR album from this testing.
http://s1191.photobucket.com/albums/z472/jvonengeln/Amplifier%20Comparison/

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #2 of 11 Old 02-09-2013, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I finished the first round of testing. I measured each amp in stereo on Pure Audio mode on the Onkyo - no EQ. The FR graphs were pretty close. The Behringer seems to have a bit more treble at the upper end of the audible spectrum. I'll probably repeat the tests to confirm -- perhaps with just a single channel/speaker to eliminate the possibility of a speaker bias to left or right of the room affecting the FR.

The noise floor in my room was about 60dB, so I cranked the omnimic sine sweep test tone well above the noise floor.


"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #3 of 11 Old 02-09-2013, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I just did a second round of testing with only the left channel playing instead of the previous stereo testing. The test results are very similar to my first test. It does seem the Behringer INuke DSP 3000 adds a bit more treble at the top of the audible frequency response graph.

For the second test, new averages were captured only from the left most speaker. SPL's were level matched between the three amp sources. The Mic position was standardized from a left chair listening position (different mic location from the first tests, but identical and unmoved for all three tests). Respectively nothing changed in the graphs related to frequency response bias from the first test. It does seem the INuke has a bit more treble at the top end of the audible spectrum (2-3dB more), followed by the Onkyo and in both tests the Crown has a just about a dB less than the Onkyo at the 20khz/ top end of the audible spectrum.


"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #4 of 11 Old 02-10-2013, 06:40 AM
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Very interesting thanks for posting. I have been wondering the same thing and have been on the hunt for a crown XLS1500 to power my mains to see what, if any difference it would make. I have been futzing around with some SEOS designs which have proven to be very efficient, so I do not technically "Need" the power above what my tx-nr3007 provides. Just been curious. Again, thanks for taking the time to post this.
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post #5 of 11 Old 02-10-2013, 09:53 PM
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We need more of these graphs generally. I'm surprised the amp sceptics haven't leapt on this already.

>1dB, up to 2-3dB, more than 0.1dB, the difference must be audible, right?

...

But SPL meters aren't accurate enough!

...

Did you do a DBT?

...

Then the amps are not designed properly...smile.gif

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #6 of 11 Old 02-11-2013, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

We need more of these graphs generally. I'm surprised the amp sceptics haven't leapt on this already.

>1dB, up to 2-3dB, more than 0.1dB, the difference must be audible, right?

...

But SPL meters aren't accurate enough!

...

Did you do a DBT?
Unless the amps were hidden from view of the mic I would be skeptical of the results. Otherwise the mic could be biased in relaying info. smile.gif

...

Then the amps are not designed properly...smile.gif

On a serious note. ABX testing in a store is sometimes difficult for me. This is not the same as relaxing at home and listening to the media as opposed to listening to the equipment in a test.
ABX is like an academic test. The answers are easier when studying as opposed to TEST DAY in class.
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post #7 of 11 Old 02-11-2013, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Did you do a DBT?
Unless the amps were hidden from view of the mic I would be skeptical of the results. Otherwise the mic could be biased in relaying info. smile.gif

Nice one! biggrin.gif I nearly miss it inside the quote!

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #8 of 11 Old 02-16-2013, 03:32 PM
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Hey, Archea!

I just saw this thread in in my AVS Subscription Update... I wasn't subscribed, so the forum software must have just guessed I'd be interested because we both posted in the Iowa thread. wink.gif

Anyway, interesting test, and I would have guessed there would be very, very little difference between the three amps. I'm wondering if the subtle bit of HF boost on the iNUKE above 2kHz could simply be due to a slight impedance mismatch between the iNUKE and whatever you're driving it with (the NR1007?). It would be interesting to try your test again with a totally different input cable and source to see if the results are different. I'm not saying the iNUKE isn't to blame, but the issue could also be exacerbated depending on the source.

Cheers,
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I've got GAS: Gadget Acquisition Syndrome.
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post #9 of 11 Old 02-16-2013, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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hey ecrabb!

I hope all is well.

Yeah - both Crown and Inuke were powered off the same stereo L and R rca preout on the Onkyo receiver. I'm not sure what to make of it, but I think it is slightly audible, as well as visible on graphs, that there is a slight bit more treble on the Inuke when playing mains with my Onkyo TX-NR1007 as the source.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #10 of 11 Old 04-26-2013, 05:36 AM
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Subbed - love seeing tests like this!

I'm thinking the at the next GTG it would be cool to do some blind testing and listening to different amps - receiver vs. pro amp vs. Krell/Bryston, etc. I know of at least a few local guys with high end $$$ amps that might be disappointed with their 'investments' after such tests. biggrin.gif


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post #11 of 11 Old 04-26-2013, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Subbed - love seeing tests like this!

I'm thinking the at the next GTG it would be cool to do some blind testing and listening to different amps - receiver vs. pro amp vs. Krell/Bryston, etc. I know of at least a few local guys with high end $$$ amps that might be disappointed with their 'investments' after such tests. biggrin.gif

+1.

Would love to see who would jump on the "power is power" bandwagon that I've been on for the past few ye:Dars.

Didn't catch this thread because I don't spend much time these parts...

 

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