Outlaw Audio vs. Emotova vs. Marantz 5 channel amps - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 50 Old 02-09-2013, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

I have the Outlaw Audio 7700 amp since 2006. Seems to have a problem and although I will most likely bring it in to get repaired, I have been looking for a new amp. I do not need 7 channels like I have on the 7700, I had purchased it in the hopes that I would run a 7.1 but I am sticking with 5.2.

I have been trying to find some reviews on the forum for these amps but it is not working out too well. Just wondering if anyone had any opinions on these 3 amps and also I would be willing to listen to any other opinions on amps in the $1500.00 range. The Marantz seems to be the weakest just because it is a little weak in the watts range.

Looking forward to hearing back!!!

Thanks!!!

Brian

Brian
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post #2 of 50 Old 02-10-2013, 04:02 AM
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+10 for the emo!

I just got the EMO XPA-5, and it's awesome (has XLR in too), but only costs half your budget. But almost within your budget (especially if you can wait for the next sale) is also their reference series XPR-5, 5x400w of their best amp technology...would be surprised if it didn't blow the others out of the water =). My 2c.
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post #3 of 50 Old 02-10-2013, 05:42 AM
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I've owned an Outlaw 7500 (200Wx5) for 7 years; they list at $1599. Balanced or RCA inputs, trigger, etc. It's been rock solid for me, with 2 different preamps/receiver since I purchased it. Presently using it with an Anthem MRX-500 and Apogee Centaur Minors ribbon speakers for fronts (they need a lot of power).
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post #4 of 50 Old 02-10-2013, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys. Just wondering how much better the Outlaw 7500 at nearly twice the price is then the Emotova?? $900.00 vs. $1500.00 is quite a difference. They seem to have similar stats.

I do feel that maybe the Marantz is going to be a bit too weak for me. I am driving 5 older Klipsch speakers. The Outlaw amp worked great right up until the day I started to get a bad hum/buzz in my system which I never had. went through hell to finally think it is the amp.

I wonder how much off Emotova will give on that monster amp, 400 watts a channel, not sure who would need that kind of power, hah.

Why is Emotova quite a bit cheaper then Outlaw?

Thanks for the help.

Brian
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post #5 of 50 Old 02-10-2013, 02:44 PM
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I don't know why it's cheaper, good value separates is their business strategy I guess? I'm very happy with it, but just another thought:

If you want to "max" your budget, but get more power for your fronts, as well as more secondary capacitance per channel, another option is the emo xpa-2 (2x300w) + xpa-3 (3*200w) which would total $1500 (or less with a sale). Or 2 xpa-100 monoblocks (250w for the fronts) + xpa 3 ($1600), but with the added benefit of X-series monoblocks =) and even more capacitance (but cheaper/smaller than the xpa-1).

About the xpr 400/channel, a doubling in power is just 3db more, but it's more about the possibility of even more high quality components, but I agree that 400 may not be necessary =)
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post #6 of 50 Old 02-10-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I just do not have anymore space in my rack for a second amp. I need to find one amp that i will fall in love with as I did with the Outlaw.

Brian
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post #7 of 50 Old 02-10-2013, 06:19 PM
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The Outlaw amp worked great right up until the day I started to get a bad hum/buzz in my system which I never had.

Did you change any other gear/components before you started to get the hum/buzz? Are you sure it may not be a ground loop in the system? I would see what's wrong with the amp before putting out any money for a new amp....unless you just want to upgrade for the hell of it:)
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post #8 of 50 Old 02-10-2013, 08:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by brianlvi3 View Post

Hey guys,

I have the Outlaw Audio 7700 amp since 2006. Seems to have a problem and although I will most likely bring it in to get repaired, I have been looking for a new amp. I do not need 7 channels like I have on the 7700, I had purchased it in the hopes that I would run a 7.1 but I am sticking with 5.2.

I have been trying to find some reviews on the forum for these amps but it is not working out too well. Just wondering if anyone had any opinions on these 3 amps and also I would be willing to listen to any other opinions on amps in the $1500.00 range. The Marantz seems to be the weakest just because it is a little weak in the watts range.

Looking forward to hearing back!!!

Thanks!!!

Brian

This may not be what you want to hear, but maybe you might want to look into cost to repair your 7700. But if you are decided on a new amp, the 7500 and XPA-5 do have design differences. The Outlaw is a true balanced design which is superior to merely adding XLR jacks as the Emo has. The Outlaw also has 3.2KVA power supply, 12 output devices per channel and 150,000 mf in caps. The XPA-5 has 1.2 KVA, 60 mf caps and 6 output devices per channel. Also, the Outlaw amp is made in USA if that's important to you. The XPA series is a decent design, but it has a highish gain structure at 32db and some, including me, get sibilance at higher levels with certain speakers.

I've had amps from both companies, and the difference was there, but it wasn't night and day. The choice is yours.
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post #9 of 50 Old 02-10-2013, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ipso Facto View Post

I don't know why it's cheaper, good value separates is their business strategy I guess? I'm very happy with it, but just another thought:

Emotiva Made in China!! Outlaw Made in USA!! Enough Said! I would look into Another Outlaw or better yet a Parasound!!
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post #10 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by flyingvfreak View Post

Emotiva Made in China!! Outlaw Made in USA!! Enough Said! I would look into Another Outlaw or better yet a Parasound!!

Are you being xenophobic or do you have an honest desire to employ Americans? The Outlaw is built like a tank but SQ wise I doubt you could tell the difference.
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post #11 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 03:27 AM
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The Outlaw is a true balanced design which is superior to merely adding XLR jacks as the Emo has. 

 

It might be worth pointing out that that is only an issue if there is a reason to use balanced inputs/outputs anyway - as you know, there is no SQ difference between balanced and unbalanced cables so long as there is no electrical interference due to very long cable runs (typically much longer than in domestic setups) with power cables running nearby and parallel. Also, to get any benefit, the source needs to be a proper balanced design too.

 

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The Outlaw also has 3.2KVA power supply, 12 output devices per channel and 150,000 mf in caps. The XPA-5 has 1.2 KVA, 60 mf caps and 6 output devices per channel. Also, the Outlaw amp is made in USA if that's important to you. The XPA series is a decent design, but it has a highish gain structure at 32db and some, including me, get sibilance at higher levels with certain speakers.

 

The price of the new Emo XPR-5 is $1,999 (but it will be on sale soon enough and probably $200 less) and the Outlaw is $1,599, so it could be possible to make a comparison between the Outlaw 7500 and the Emo XPR-5 as the price differential is a lot less than between the 7500 and XPA-5. In that case, one could argue that the XPR-5 is the better bet. It has 400 wpc (8 ohm) compared with the 7500's 200 wpc (8 ohm); 3.3 kVA power supply and 180,000 mf caps. Also gain on the XPR-5 is 29dB not 32dB. On the 7500 gain is 28dB (XLR) and 34dB (RCA), greater even than the XPA-5.

 

I'd say all three are very good amps and likely there will be no audible differences between them. If I was in the OP's situation and was prepared to spend $1,599 on the 7500, I would probably wait for the next Sale at Emo and spend maybe $1,799 on the XPR-5.

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post #12 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 03:52 AM
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All good points. I wonder if the Outlaw has better handling of low impedance loads, not that the XPA-5 has trouble with them. If I had unlimited money I might buy the Outlaw but given my budget I've stayed with Emotiva. If I remember correctly the XPR-5 requires two dedicated electrical circuits which would rule it out for me.
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post #13 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

All good points. I wonder if the Outlaw has better handling of low impedance loads, not that the XPA-5 has trouble with them. If I had unlimited money I might buy the Outlaw but given my budget I've stayed with Emotiva. If I remember correctly the XPR-5 requires two dedicated electrical circuits which would rule it out for me.

 

Emo say that it needs dedicated circuits but I imagine that is just ass-covering. It might trip the breakers if you ran a sine wave through it at max power for some time, but I can't see it happening on regular content. Also, with my marketing hat on, it is a nice idea - to suggest that it is such a beast, with so much power, that it needs circuits that mere 'ordinary' amps do not. They don't say that about the XPA-1 and that is a 500 wpc (8 ohms) unit - and the minimum likely number anyone would use is two.

 

AAMOI, here, running off a 13 amp circuit (UK standard) I have:

 

1 x Onkyo 5509 prepro

1 x XPA-3 amp (300 wpc (4 ohms)

2 x UPA-2 amps (about 200 wpc each (4 ohms)

2 x Seaton Submersive subs (1,000 watts each)

1 x Crown XLS 1000 amp (bridged into 4 ohms - 1,000 wpc - driving Buttkicker)

1 x 65 inch plasma TV

1 x Oppo BD player

1 x Panasonic BD Player (modded for all regions)

1 x Toshiba HD DVD player

1 x Mac mini (running HTPC)

2 x 4T hard drives in RAID config

1 x DVDO video processor

6 x cooling fans

 

The various players will not all be playing at the same time, but they are all powered on at the same time, albeit in standby.

 

Not once I have ever managed to trip the breaker with all that lot running at full chat, close-to-reference levels. According to the gadget that monitors the circuit, the maximum current draw has never exceeded 8 amps. Usually it is way lower than that - the 8 amps is a peak - it might have only been achieved for a second or so, once.

 

The domestic circuits do not trip the very instant they see a max current draw anyway - they have a fair tolerance to momentarily being overloaded. If they do overload properly, there is no danger - the circuit breaker simply trips. So anyone contemplating an XPR-5 would soon find out, during the return window, if it was too much for the circuit it is on because their breaker would trip.

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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Emo say that it needs dedicated circuits but I imagine that is just ass-covering. It might trip the breakers if you ran a sine wave through it at max power for some time, but I can't see it happening on regular content. Also, with my marketing hat on, it is a nice idea - to suggest that it is such a beast, with so much power, that it needs circuits that mere 'ordinary' amps do not. They don't say that about the XPA-1 and that is a 500 wpc (8 ohms) unit - and the minimum likely number anyone would use is two.

I agree. Take this with a grain of salt because I am not a codes expert.
I have been told that the max for an appliance is 1500 watt rating on a 15 amp circuit. May be some truth as I can't recall ever seeing an appliance exceeding this rating if it has a 15 amp plug.
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post #15 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 04:55 AM
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Yes, Keith, but don't you have 220 volt circuits? I too have everything running off of one circuit including three Emotiva amps (XPA-3, UPA-5, UPA-2) and a Behringer EP4000. Also the Denon 4520, Oppo 93, two streaming boxes (insignificant current draw), and a Panasonic ST30 50" plasma t.v.. The only time I've tripped a circuit breaker was when running an AC unit at the same time as my A/V on a hot day.
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post #16 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Yes, Keith, but don't you have 220 volt circuits? I too have everything running off of one circuit including three Emotiva amps (XPA-3, UPA-5, UPA-2) and a Behringer EP4000. Also the Denon 4520, Oppo 93, two streaming boxes (insignificant current draw), and a Panasonic ST30 50" plasma t.v.. The only time I've tripped a circuit breaker was when running an AC unit at the same time as my A/V on a hot day.

 

Yes - 230v here. But even so... you're running virtually the same as me, and still not tripping... (hahaha, NPI).

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post #17 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 05:27 AM
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Haven't "tripped" in decades rolleyes.gif
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post #18 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 09:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post




The price of the new Emo XPR-5 is $1,999 (but it will be on sale soon enough and probably $200 less) and the Outlaw is $1,599, so it could be possible to make a comparison between the Outlaw 7500 and the Emo XPR-5 as the price differential is a lot less than between the 7500 and XPA-5. In that case, one could argue that the XPR-5 is the better bet. It has 400 wpc (8 ohm) compared with the 7500's 200 wpc (8 ohm); 3.3 kVA power supply and 180,000 mf caps. Also gain on the XPR-5 is 29dB not 32dB. On the 7500 gain is 28dB (XLR) and 34dB (RCA), greater even than the XPA-5.

I'd say all three are very good amps and likely there will be no audible differences between them. If I was in the OP's situation and was prepared to spend $1,599 on the 7500, I would probably wait for the next Sale at Emo and spend maybe $1,799 on the XPR-5.

Why are you following me into threads that you had no interest/posts in to once again attack a post of mine? This is not the first time you've done this and perhaps you could stop now.

At any rate, the OP specifically said which amps he's comparing, and they happen to be 200 watt amps. Suggesting a 400 wpc amp that requires a 20 amp circuit and won't fit in his rack doesn't really help. Perhaps you could read his earlier posts instead of just mine, the XPR has already been suggested.

PS Running a 230 volt 13 amp circuit allows 2900 watts. Maybe you could include that so American posters have a little context, instead of inferring that it's the same thing as a 120 volt 15 amp circuit.
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post #19 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The price of the new Emo XPR-5 is $1,999 (but it will be on sale soon enough and probably $200 less) and the Outlaw is $1,599, so it could be possible to make a comparison between the Outlaw 7500 and the Emo XPR-5 as the price differential is a lot less than between the 7500 and XPA-5. In that case, one could argue that the XPR-5 is the better bet. It has 400 wpc (8 ohm) compared with the 7500's 200 wpc (8 ohm); 3.3 kVA power supply and 180,000 mf caps. Also gain on the XPR-5 is 29dB not 32dB. On the 7500 gain is 28dB (XLR) and 34dB (RCA), greater even than the XPA-5.

I'd say all three are very good amps and likely there will be no audible differences between them. If I was in the OP's situation and was prepared to spend $1,599 on the 7500, I would probably wait for the next Sale at Emo and spend maybe $1,799 on the XPR-5.

Why are you following me into threads that you had no interest in to oppose a simple opinion once again? This is not the first time you've done this and perhaps you could stop now.

 

 

LOL!!!!  biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif  If you think for even half a second that I would follow you, then you are way, way off target. :)  And you would know if you had any followers because AVS sends you a notification. If you think I have no interest in Emo amps, then I don't know how you would explain the fact I own 4 of them. 

 

Incidentally, if you re-read my post you will see that I am not "opposing your opinion" at all.  I am offering a different opinion. That is why I said they are all good amps.

 

Also, AFAIK, anyone is allowed to post in any thread they choose - sorry buddy but that's the way it is. If you have a problem with my posts, then there is a 'report post' icon at the bottom of every one. There is also a 'block member' setting which you can select and then you won't even see my posts in the first place.

 

Quote:
At any rate, the OP specifically said which amps he's comparing, and they happen to be 200 watt amps. Suggesting a 400 wpc amp that requires a 20 amp circuit and won't fit in his rack doesn't really help. Perhaps you could read his earlier posts instead of just mine, the XPR has already been suggested.

 

 

I think the XPR is an alternative to the Outlaw which is specced at half its rated power and doesn't cost all that much more if you get it on sale. I was offering a different perspective. If it offends you, well, there's not much I can do about that. Put me on Ignore is all I can suggest.

 

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PS Running a 230 volt 13 amp circuit allows 2900 watts. Maybe you could include that so American posters have a little context, instead of inferring that it's the same thing as a 120 volt 15 amp circuit.

 

I did not imply that it was the same thing as a 120v circuit - that was your mistaken inference from my post. Everyone who reads any of my posts knows I am in the UK. It is unlikely that an XPR-5 will trip a US circuit though.

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post #20 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Are you being xenophobic or do you have an honest desire to employ Americans? The Outlaw is built like a tank but SQ wise I doubt you could tell the difference.
I would buy an American Made Product over a Chinese product Any day and it worth spending twice as much too!!
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LOL!!!!  biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
  If you think for even half a second that I would follow you, then you are way, way off target. smile.gif  And you would know if you had any followers because AVS sends you a notification. If you think I have no interest in Emo amps, then I don't know how you would explain the fact I own 4 of them. 

Incidentally, if you re-read my post you will see that I am not "opposing your opinion" at all.  I am offering a different opinion. That is why I said they are all good amps.

Also, AFAIK, anyone is allowed to post in any thread they choose - sorry buddy but that's the way it is. If you have a problem with my posts, then there is a 'report post' icon at the bottom of every one. There is also a 'block member' setting which you can select and then you won't even see my posts in the first place.



I think the XPR is an alternative to the Outlaw which is specced at half its rated power and doesn't cost all that much more if you get it on sale. I was offering a different perspective. If it offends you, well, there's not much I can do about that. Put me on Ignore is all I can suggest.


I did not imply that it was the same thing as a 120v circuit - that was your mistaken inference from my post. Everyone who reads any of my posts knows I am in the UK. It is unlikely that an XPR-5 will trip a US circuit though.

Read carefully. I am not suggesting that you are using the AVS forum follow function to follow me. But you repeatedly pick out my posts among many to "offer different opinion". In this case, the thread starter asked the same question in a thread you frequent, the Emotiva XPA-5 thread. You chose to ignore it there, and instead make your first post here, and quote my post to oppose in doing so. And yes you are opposing my opinion as you typically do. Look, follow me around if you want, but it looks rather silly.

Again, the thread poster has said clearly that he has limited space. The XPR amp has already been suggested and he responded to that suggestion by mentioning he has limited space, and not with interest in the amp. So you obviously didn't read the thread although you read my post oddly enough. Think whatever you want about Outlaw, Emotiva and 120 volts, but at least read the thread you are posting in.

PS This is an American forum. It has many new American posters joining all the time. They do not know you. They may therefore read your incomplete post about your 13 amp circuit and assume that they can plug their whole system into a circuit that can only supply 1800 watts, trip the breaker and ruin their projector which then can't do a cool down cycle and damages the LCD panels. Not everyone knows you like Theresa.
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post #23 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 11:06 AM
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I would buy an American Made Product over a Chinese product Any day and it worth spending twice as much too!!

Ok, but why would you buy an American product for twice what the Chinese equivalent cost? Is it xenophobia? Or is it just because you support American jobs? Would you buy the same amp if it were made in Europe?
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Why does someone expressing patriotism get accused of xenophobia, which is a nice way of saying racism? But the answer is in the first post of his which you quoted. He mentioned Parasound amps as well, or are you unaware of where they are made? It's not the USA.
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post #25 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 11:17 AM
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Question answered eek.gif Patriotism is sometimes thinly veiled racism.

By the way, both Keith and I follow threads about Emotiva amps because we are both fans. Paranoia isn't necessary.
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Could you point out where the question was answered? I don't see it. I mean, I've pointed out that the post included amps made both in the US and elsewhere, so the poster wasn't excluding other countries. But I don't see how you responded to that. At any rate, one or two posts expressing patriotism is hardly grounds to claim racism.

BTW, you may both follow Emotiva threads, but you both don't quote me then repeatedly disagree with what I've said. Paranoia? Why are you afraid of patriotism?
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post #27 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

Could you point out where the question was answered? I don't see it. I mean, I've pointed out that the post included amps made both in the US and elsewhere, so the poster wasn't excluding other countries. But I don't see how you responded to that. At any rate, one or two posts expressing patriotism is hardly grounds to claim racism.

BTW, you may both follow Emotiva threads, but you both don't quote me then repeatedly disagree with what I've said. Paranoia? Why are you afraid of patriotism?

Those 2 disagree with a lot of folks(That's AVS in general-makes its fun you know), don't think of yourself as special biggrin.gif:D

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post #28 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Question answered eek.gif Patriotism is sometimes thinly veiled racism.

By the way, both Keith and I follow threads about Emotiva amps because we are both fans. Paranoia isn't necessary.

I know that you and Keith do not like my posts. However, I have not received any moderator warnings due to our disagreements. However, I did recently get one when responding to a certain member who does not own Emotiva. That same person is criticizing you and Keith for trolling when he constantly jabs at any Emotiva post.

Do I sense hypocrisy?
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post #29 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 01:02 PM
 
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Well I've been warned too and I believe I got some for a couple of disagreements we had, interesting that the first thought is to blame me though(I'm not surprised to hear you've been warned with the vitriol you've directed at me for daring to be critical of Emotiva). And BTW, I own 2 Emotiva components, mudcat, and I've suggested Emo gear in the past. Have you anything to add to the thread, or were you only interested in smearing me?
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post #30 of 50 Old 02-11-2013, 01:32 PM
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Nothing wrong with buying American or so advocating. Xenophobia? How silly. And these are not completely equivalent products, as noted by the specs quoted in this thread and elsewhere. Whether the differences are material depends mostly on the application, though it would seem that the Outlaw might also provide a bit cleaner power? Given that speakers -- along with room dynamics -- make the most difference in sound quality and thus get swapped out perhaps most frequently, buying into a more future proof position by way of an amp is not a ridiculous proposition. I am surprised that the OP's Outlaw has issues, but anything can happen. If it is repairable, that may be a great alternative, as amps have not changed very much, for the most part, and outside of newer Class D and power-switching technologies (no insights into long term durability on those), might not for a very long time.
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Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

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Emotiva Xpa 5 5 Channel Power Amplifier , Anthem Mrx500 , Emotiva Xpa 2 Stereo Power Amplifier
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