Sunfire Grand Cinema 200x5 or Emotiva UPA5 for B&W CM5 and CM Centre - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 02-10-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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So as the title reads (and I have searched aimlessly between both amps) but my question is that I know the Sunfire's are more of a power house and guys usually stick to that because they can drive less efficient speakers but the BW's are rated at 88dbs so I know they are relatively easy to push with a ratings of 125 watts max.

I originally had built this system for HT but since the arrival of baby satan (my son) I am finding myself enjoying movies at the SPL I normally do but listen to music everyday (including breakfast with mozart with my son daily)

I have a Denon 3312 avr and am running Current Audio FIT802FL as my rear in ceiling surrounds (also rated at 125 wpc max)


SO I guess the question is, am I out of my league even getting amps with that much power to run these efficient BW's or will the sunfire holds its bold position and save me a trip to BW's service center purchasing blown tweeters and drivers?

I only compared the Emotiva because of its praise around here and theres a decent priced UPA5 going on ebay for about 500.


Thoughts? Room is 20x23 with 8ft opening to kitchen and 8ft ceilings and mildly treated (we just moved in so I am working on treating the room acoustically)

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2. If you dont sleep with her, someone else will
3. If it dont fit, force it
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post #2 of 18 Old 02-10-2013, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Forgot to add that the sunfire I am looking at has been recapped and recently serviced smile.gif

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2. If you dont sleep with her, someone else will
3. If it dont fit, force it
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post #3 of 18 Old 02-15-2013, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Not one person can comment on this?

3 things in life my father said to me

1. Deny till death
2. If you dont sleep with her, someone else will
3. If it dont fit, force it
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post #4 of 18 Old 02-16-2013, 02:16 AM
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My B&W N803s are ONLY driven by 175WPC (and before 150W) amps and they're nowhere near max output.

At the volume you listen to if you don't hear any distortion/clipping then you already have enough power.

But it's not a sin to add power amps: many do here even if they don't NEED them, if you can afford them. Rather than nothing or 5CH power amp trying a 2CH amp for the fronts only would be a good starting point.

Perhaps money would better be spent elsewhere.

Generally powerful amps are safe as long as you don't turn up the volume all the way, it's common sense really. Your ears will hurt or ring at >100dB for prolonged periods and it's not good for your son either.smile.gif

Is it true that Mozart is good for children?

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #5 of 18 Old 02-16-2013, 02:16 AM
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They are likely to perform similarly. Personally I'd go with the Sunfire if it's similarly priced. No real reason for this other than that the Sunfire probably has better build quality. I say this as someone who has three Emotiva amps and they perform magnificently.
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post #6 of 18 Old 02-16-2013, 05:34 AM
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i will always miss the sound that i had with my sunfire amp. laid back an silky smooth, i had to return it because it had an buzz.or a ground loop that i couldn't get rid of.
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post #7 of 18 Old 02-16-2013, 05:44 AM
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Sunfire.
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post #8 of 18 Old 02-16-2013, 06:40 AM
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I'll second or third that for Sunfire, I have mine for about 6 years. Lots of good clean power and mine is dead quiet, when others sometimes aren't. Problems are rare IMO.
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post #9 of 18 Old 02-17-2013, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Went with the sunfire along with some harmonic technology interconnects and mated the CM5's with some belden 10awg and had a lot of fun creating jumper wires and adding banana plugs with cable that thick. My next step is to bi-wire/amp using the voltage source and current source which I have read yields some results. My ears will be the judge.

3 things in life my father said to me

1. Deny till death
2. If you dont sleep with her, someone else will
3. If it dont fit, force it
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post #10 of 18 Old 02-18-2013, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofthecrate View Post

Went with the sunfire along with some harmonic technology interconnects and mated the CM5's with some belden 10awg and had a lot of fun creating jumper wires and adding banana plugs with cable that thick. My next step is to bi-wire/amp using the voltage source and current source which I have read yields some results. My ears will be the judge.



Good choice, your going to enjoy it. Ihave the Sunfire 200 x 7 and I'm a big fan of it. I just inquired about bi amping from the fronts voltage and current source only. The book shows it done a different way, daisy chaining an unused channel. Then using the front current source for the mid/highs and the regular voltage source off the daisy chained channel for the woofer. It makes no mention of strictly using the front channels two sources to bi amp. I've heard of people doing this but not sure how so I emailed Sunfire tech support to see. I tried bi wiring from the both on the front channel and its a waste of wire. Normally bi amping through the passive crossovers of your speakers yields little advantage. But I just bought a pair of Revel fronts that are power hungry and I was advised to at least try it until I upgrade to more power. Like you said, my ears will be the judge.

Where did you get the bananna plugs at? I use 10 gage wire also and can barely fit that into a spade let alone a banana plug.

Thanks,
John.
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post #11 of 18 Old 02-23-2013, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post



Where did you get the bananna plugs at? I use 10 gage wire also and can barely fit that into a spade let alone a banana plug.

Thanks,
John.

Sorry for the late reply John. I have been on the road trying to fund my addiction for MOAR SPEAKERS!!! I have used the monoprice banana plugs with no issue. Although that belden cable is comparable to solid strand and very difficult to fan out, I found slightly running them through the rear of the plug and fanning out like a head of brocoli and letting the screw in compress the wire itself into the banana. Not sold on leaving it this way but I was anxious to get these fired up and listened to.

Here are my current updates to what the sunfire grand cinema did for the CM5's

After performing the sound correction through the denon and audyssey I noticed right off the bat I have to drive the volume up to 00db to get these things even listenable (not loud) but just to fill the size of room I have. No clipping or distortion heard. Not sure if the audyssey padded the receiver given the output or what. Just what I have noticed. Although with the audyssey eq engaged it sure colors (or fills) the sound out a lot more than running 2 channel direct (no audyssey)

It has taken me a long time to get these speakers set up correctly. as of now I have them spaced 1ft from the back wall. about 6ft apart and toed in about 15 degrees just at the right and left side of my listening position. That is where I am gaining most of my staging presence and sweet spot although, I am sure these speakers can do more. They sound great now but, I dont think I am getting the most out of them just yet. I will go to a bi wire set up and then bi amp these with the sunfire (not bypassing the internal cross overs) and see if that changes things. I made the huge mistake of listening to the CM9's the other night and was blown away how big of a sound stage they had and this was at a crummy listening room at best buy. The speakers def disappeared. I almost have mine there. I am mounting the ELITE this week and I will make more adjustments to where the stands lie. I also plan on adding kitty litter to the stand columns and maybe spiking the bottom of the stands to my hardwood floors (but adding furniture cups)..

Another issue I have to address before I convince myself to buy the CM9's is correcting the acoustics in that room. Right now I just moved in and its a large room and its somewhat open to the kitchen and entryway with no pictures hanging on the wall. hardwood floors and a freshly scraped plaster ceiling with a 146 inch sliding glass window as my rear wall and nothing but a shag drop rug and a microfiber couch. So I know I am getting echo flutters and maybe while the plasma sits on a stand, some early reflections from the glass on it as well?

3 things in life my father said to me

1. Deny till death
2. If you dont sleep with her, someone else will
3. If it dont fit, force it
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post #12 of 18 Old 02-23-2013, 07:29 PM
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I think you made the right choice with the Sunfire.
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post #13 of 18 Old 02-23-2013, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I think you made the right choice with the Sunfire.

Well yeah I know that now.. Just figuring out some other methods to get more out of these CM5's

3 things in life my father said to me

1. Deny till death
2. If you dont sleep with her, someone else will
3. If it dont fit, force it
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post #14 of 18 Old 02-23-2013, 11:16 PM
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I know you've already made your choice but for other folks deciding between Emotiva and Sunfire...

Emotiva UPA-5
Emotiva XPA-5
Sunfire Cinema Grand ( all flavors of 5-channel @ 200w except maybe Signature Series )
Emotiva XPR-5

HD-DVD = 94
Blu-Ray = 120 ( 24 Warner red2blu )
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post #15 of 18 Old 02-24-2013, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofthecrate View Post

Sorry for the late reply John. I have been on the road trying to fund my addiction for MOAR SPEAKERS!!! I have used the monoprice banana plugs with no issue. Although that belden cable is comparable to solid strand and very difficult to fan out, I found slightly running them through the rear of the plug and fanning out like a head of brocoli and letting the screw in compress the wire itself into the banana. Not sold on leaving it this way but I was anxious to get these fired up and listened to.

Here are my current updates to what the sunfire grand cinema did for the CM5's

After performing the sound correction through the denon and audyssey I noticed right off the bat I have to drive the volume up to 00db to get these things even listenable (not loud) but just to fill the size of room I have. No clipping or distortion heard. Not sure if the audyssey padded the receiver given the output or what. Just what I have noticed. Although with the audyssey eq engaged it sure colors (or fills) the sound out a lot more than running 2 channel direct (no audyssey)

It has taken me a long time to get these speakers set up correctly. as of now I have them spaced 1ft from the back wall. about 6ft apart and toed in about 15 degrees just at the right and left side of my listening position. That is where I am gaining most of my staging presence and sweet spot although, I am sure these speakers can do more. They sound great now but, I dont think I am getting the most out of them just yet. I will go to a bi wire set up and then bi amp these with the sunfire (not bypassing the internal cross overs) and see if that changes things. I made the huge mistake of listening to the CM9's the other night and was blown away how big of a sound stage they had and this was at a crummy listening room at best buy. The speakers def disappeared. I almost have mine there. I am mounting the ELITE this week and I will make more adjustments to where the stands lie. I also plan on adding kitty litter to the stand columns and maybe spiking the bottom of the stands to my hardwood floors (but adding furniture cups)..

Another issue I have to address before I convince myself to buy the CM9's is correcting the acoustics in that room. Right now I just moved in and its a large room and its somewhat open to the kitchen and entryway with no pictures hanging on the wall. hardwood floors and a freshly scraped plaster ceiling with a 146 inch sliding glass window as my rear wall and nothing but a shag drop rug and a microfiber couch. So I know I am getting echo flutters and maybe while the plasma sits on a stand, some early reflections from the glass on it as well?



It sounds like you've been busy. So are you going to stick with Audyssey's settings or use your own? I've put off even trying it on my new pre/pro, partially because I didn't have the speakers I wanted. Now that I have the ones I'm styling with for awhile I'm going to run soon. It will be the first time and I guess I'm a little intimidated. I hear you about reflections in your room. Mine is a nightmare.
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post #16 of 18 Old 02-28-2013, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh I am definitely running it. Just pulling anything about 10k down around 2-3 dbs and spending more time with placement Although, I will say this I believe the 24 inch stands I have are a below My ear. I could benefit being in the pocked a lot more. Anyone want to buy sanus 21 inch steel stands?

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1. Deny till death
2. If you dont sleep with her, someone else will
3. If it dont fit, force it
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post #17 of 18 Old 03-01-2013, 03:39 AM
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Oh I am definitely running it. Just pulling anything about 10k down around 2-3 dbs and spending more time with placement Although, I will say this I believe the 24 inch stands I have are a below My ear. I could benefit being in the pocked a lot more. Anyone want to buy sanus 21 inch steel stands?



Hi, I have a large pair of Pinnacle bookshelves and the taller steel Sanus stands are great. They support them nicely, although I don't like how the feet attach that can be modified. I think mine are 31" and the listening height (tweeter) matches my front towers perfect. Figured I'd throw that in there since you'll be looking for new ones. It sounds like other than that things are working out for you, that's great.
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post #18 of 18 Old 04-07-2013, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi, I have a large pair of Pinnacle bookshelves and the taller steel Sanus stands are great. They support them nicely, although I don't like how the feet attach that can be modified. I think mine are 31" and the listening height (tweeter) matches my front towers perfect. Figured I'd throw that in there since you'll be looking for new ones. It sounds like other than that things are working out for you, that's great.
They worked better once I stuck the aurelex foam isolation pads on the stands, truth is those speakers need to be a little higher, although I would have imagines more vertical axis from a dome but hey, IIWIS.

I am not satisfied with the CM Centre, I should have ponied up for the Centre 2. Not that its bad, I just dont feel it shines as much as it should for a $700 center. I have been seriously considering picking up the Ascend Sierra towers with the horizon center. I realize its spending more but my addiction is making decisions from now on since I heard the CM9's and the soundstaging was so much larger than my CM5's although I bet some of this has to do with my room but I mean these sounded so much better and had a much fuller sound or so I felt..


Anyways the CM5's and Center are in the classifieds for a decent price since they are a year old..
s

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1. Deny till death
2. If you dont sleep with her, someone else will
3. If it dont fit, force it
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