Reciever HDMI picture cuts out - AVS Forum

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Receivers, Amps, and Processors

jnlsn01's Avatar jnlsn01
12:41 PM Liked: 10
post #1 of 23
02-16-2013 | Posts: 5
Joined: Feb 2013
I have a Denon AVR-591 with a Comcast cable box feeding it. The output is 33 feet to a wall mounted Plasma. When any electronic device in the home turns on (Washer, Fridge, Microwave, Kitchen Light) the picture cuts out for a few seconds. When running directly from the cable box but using all the same cables except the one connecting the cable box to the receiver, no picture drop off. I also confirmed by checking the feeding line to an xbox and a BluRay player.

I have tried seperating power by using a UPS that handles over 1000 watts to regulate output to a 100% 120V to all components( No change) I have amplified the output with an HDMI Active extender and noticed extreme drop in picture quality. It also still dropped off but in quicker intervals and also put in a snow image at a brief interval. I also ran a new circut back to the panel in the home with no change.

Any help would be great...

Does different receivers have more of an active output that will amplify its own output?
CriticalListener's Avatar CriticalListener
01:58 PM Liked: 13
post #2 of 23
02-16-2013 | Posts: 361
Joined: Apr 2006
I had a customer with a similar problem. The cable company refused to give him a new box. The solution was to run component cables to the receiver. Each situation is different, but hopefully this is a low cost option you can try out. Good luck.
jnlsn01's Avatar jnlsn01
03:18 PM Liked: 10
post #3 of 23
02-16-2013 | Posts: 5
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I was hoping that worked, but it didnt. I thought that i mentioned that the other systems Xbox, and BluRay are also seeing this issue unless they run directly to the TV as well. It seems to be something with the receiver but I am unable to identify what it would be. Is there some way to test the strength of the HDMI signal on a port. If so what tool tests that?
CriticalListener's Avatar CriticalListener
04:22 PM Liked: 13
post #4 of 23
02-16-2013 | Posts: 361
Joined: Apr 2006
A different receiver may help, as there is no HDMI spec that each manufacturer must adhere to, instead the HDMI spec is a range of output requirements and from what I've seen, not all manufacturers adhere to the spec. Honestly, I'd rec'd getting a dedicated electrical line for your media room, but I know that can be an expense most would want to avoid. I think any HDMI testing equipment will tell you what you already know, when power turns on to your washer, the A/V receiver is being affected and dropping either the HDMI voltage level OR, more likely, it is sensing an interrupt between the HDMI equipment (your TV may be less sensitive to this and doesn't require the HDMI handshake, and because it's directly connected it only needs to sense the one unit that's directly connected to it, however the receiver is requiring the handshake as it tries to link the TV back to the blu-ray player/xbox/etc. and sync the two units back up with it as the middle man, so to speak).

Can you go component from the receiver to the plasma as well? That would be the next cheapest solution.
jnlsn01's Avatar jnlsn01
07:47 PM Liked: 10
post #5 of 23
02-16-2013 | Posts: 5
Joined: Feb 2013
Currently there is already a dedicated line running the TV, Receiver, and Cable box. I also ran these same components from my UPS with no change. Then I tried to remove the electrical line leading to the TV (thinking interferance) and ran off a different circut and through the UPS with the entire circut unhooked from the panel no change. Unfortunatly I would be unable to test the component from the receiver to the TV, but when I shorten the HDMI to around 6 feet to a different TV the issue no longer existed.

Still stumped.
budwich's Avatar budwich
08:29 PM Liked: 21
post #6 of 23
02-16-2013 | Posts: 1,325
Joined: Dec 2002
you are pushing the limits on the hdmi standard. thus any environmental noise may result in enough noise ingression in the signal path to cause you grief. You might try large gauge cables to see if it helps. Make sure any extra video processing in the receiver is turned off as that might help.
gregzoll's Avatar gregzoll
09:56 PM Liked: 32
post #7 of 23
02-16-2013 | Posts: 2,524
Joined: Jun 2009
your best bet would be to use HDMI over Cat-6 with balun's, vs. long runs of hdmi cabling. The largest awg you can get is 24, and even then if you are getting interference from something, you would need to make sure that it has the Ferrette cores on both ends.
DNA Home Audio's Avatar DNA Home Audio
10:18 AM Liked: 10
post #8 of 23
02-17-2013 | Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 2012
I have the same issue with a install I did for my parents. It was with a TX- SR506 Onkyo. I used a 50' HDMI from Key Digital. That is my last 50' HDMI run ever! I have noticed that the higher end receivers have less of a problem with this. if it is something with the amount of output power on the HDMI or what, I am not sure. I have tried using a booster and that did not work. I didn't try the Ferrette cores yet. I think I am going to have to resort to running a Cat6 and use Baluns.
Legairre's Avatar Legairre
09:34 PM Liked: 63
post #9 of 23
02-17-2013 | Posts: 4,802
Joined: Feb 2001
You could try a redmere cable from monoprice. It's a powered cable and they work a lot better than regular cables. http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255
wlhungdude's Avatar wlhungdude
10:58 PM Liked: 64
post #10 of 23
02-17-2013 | Posts: 612
Joined: Dec 2006
well, I've never heard of an 'active' or 'powered' Hdmi cable. I looked at Monoprice, Redmere, Wiki, and even back to the source of that recommendation, CNET. And not one of them explains it , either. How is it "powered" ? Does it have a power plug? ( no, it doesn't) How is it 'powered' any differently than any other HDMi cable? (it isn't).

I have a 35' hdmi cable I bought from 'big river', Aurum, I think, for less than $20 , connecting my projector. Never an issue. Ferrite things at both ends, FWIW.

I see the 'Redmere' cables are thinner, but I don't really see that as a benefit. Thinner cables aren't 'better' for longer runs. Either the cable can do it or it can't. But there's really no such thing as a 'powered' Hdmi cable... unless you plug it into an electrical outlet, there's no more 'power' than any other properly designed and constructed hdmi cable, only a bigger price tag. And that's no indication of quality.

I see that they (Redmere) have partnered with Monster. Google it. That alone raises a big red flag for me.

YMMV,
Joseph
gregzoll's Avatar gregzoll
11:48 PM Liked: 32
post #11 of 23
02-17-2013 | Posts: 2,524
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Active or powered HDMI cables, actually have an amp built into one end of them. It is actually something like this http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041914&p_id=2849&seq=1&format=2 Here for a bit last year, this http://rainbowfishcorp.com/ made a small discussion, in the next gen HDMI cable for very long runs.
gurkey's Avatar gurkey
02:38 AM Liked: 22
post #12 of 23
02-18-2013 | Posts: 2,756
Joined: Aug 2007
For longer runs of HDMI cables, there are conversion units available which will handle runs up to 100 feet by packing the signal contents onto network cables and converting them back at the end to HDMI.
quattroginger's Avatar quattroginger
06:16 AM Liked: 10
post #13 of 23
02-18-2013 | Posts: 26
Joined: Jan 2013
wow, i just got on here to post a topic regarding this and happen to see yours. here is my issue

i have a refurb Denon AVR-3313 that i just received last week. i have this SAME problem except i dont have anything running in house that does it (at least havent noticed). im using this 30' cable
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025503&p_id=9430&seq=1&format=2

i used it before the receiver was hooked up and no problem. added receiver and high speed 3ft hdmi from monoprice that goes from Comcast cable box to receiver. video cuts out for about 15 seconds but audio stays. doesnt matter what format is running (SD, 720, or 1080i). but i have not noticed this on my PS3, Xbox, or Apple TV.
quattroginger's Avatar quattroginger
06:59 AM Liked: 10
post #14 of 23
02-18-2013 | Posts: 26
Joined: Jan 2013
well according to this old thread, its a known issue with Comcast boxes

http://forums.comcast.com/t5/XfinityTV-and-Equipment/S-A-8300HD-Audio-amp-Video-cuts-out/td-p/1308575

i have found several old topics google searching that pretty much say same thing. i checked with few friends who use FIOS with AVR's and they dont have problems.
Legairre's Avatar Legairre
11:53 AM Liked: 63
post #15 of 23
02-18-2013 | Posts: 4,802
Joined: Feb 2001
I have an 8300HD which is the same as in the link and mine works fine through my Anthem MRX300 receiver and the Pioneer elite VSX-92TXH receiver I had before the Anthem.
quattroginger's Avatar quattroginger
12:08 PM Liked: 10
post #16 of 23
02-18-2013 | Posts: 26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

I have an 8300HD which is the same as in the link and mine works fine through my Anthem MRX300 receiver and the Pioneer elite VSX-92TXH receiver I had before the Anthem.

do you have Comcast as your provider?
Legairre's Avatar Legairre
12:49 PM Liked: 63
post #17 of 23
02-18-2013 | Posts: 4,802
Joined: Feb 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by quattroginger View Post

do you have Comcast as your provider?
Yes I do. Since I have the same cable box and Comcast as my provider and mine works fine through the receiver maybe I can help trouble shoot the issue and compare how my box is set vs how others are set up. Maybe it's the way my box is setup of the software version it is running.
GregLee's Avatar GregLee
01:14 PM Liked: 78
post #18 of 23
02-18-2013 | Posts: 3,250
Joined: Jul 2002
For devices connected to a UPS which doesn't seem to help, it might be interesting to unplug the UPS from the house current and see whether that helps. I'm thinking maybe the UPS is not reacting fast enough to a loss of power.
jnlsn01's Avatar jnlsn01
06:07 AM Liked: 10
post #19 of 23
02-20-2013 | Posts: 5
Joined: Feb 2013
Yes I do however I tried also with my Xbox, Samsung BluRay, and PC Outputs all are having the same issue.
jnlsn01's Avatar jnlsn01
06:13 AM Liked: 10
post #20 of 23
02-20-2013 | Posts: 5
Joined: Feb 2013
I am trying really hard to not have to re run the HDMI line, the Receiver only has a HDMI out. No Component out like someone else requested. Reasoning when running this in testing it was very breif to make sure everything was connected. However to rerun the line I would have to pull up the entire floor.
bizwiz41's Avatar bizwiz41
08:17 AM Liked: 17
post #21 of 23
02-20-2013 | Posts: 360
Joined: May 2010
I am not an expert, but I have found that Comcast boxes are VERY sensitive to power supply changes. Where I live we often have "blips" in power, and the Comcast cable box is the most sensitive, and will cut out completely. In fact, the cable box is the only electrical component to fully "go out", though only for one second or so. Of course the box then resets itself (where you lose the "guide", "info", etc.)

It may be that the outlet, power strip/center, etc. where you have the box plugged in to is "marginal" for current draw. Whenever a "draw" occurs in your house (refrig, lights, etc.) there is just enough current "drop" to your cable box to "shut it off", if even only for a microsecond. Technically, a Comcast cable box is never "off", it is in a Standby state.

Before you rerun any connections cables, is it possible to plug the box into a dedicated outlet? It is also possible that your signal strength is marginal at this outlet/box. I have had a chronic issue with "audio drop" from my Comcast box, and after several tech visits, one finally admitted it is a "signal drop" (like a packet loss) that might require rewiring the entire house and line from the trunk line.

I personally do not think this is an HDMI cable issue, rather a power supply issue to the box. However, perhaps the marginal power supply issue is highlighting a "next weak link" in an HDMI cable or run.
Legairre's Avatar Legairre
09:30 AM Liked: 63
post #22 of 23
02-20-2013 | Posts: 4,802
Joined: Feb 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnlsn01 View Post

Yes I do however I tried also with my Xbox, Samsung BluRay, and PC Outputs all are having the same issue.
So it's not just your cable box it's your other HDMI components as well? OK so then we can rule out it being the comcast box. How long is your HDMI cable run and what cable are you using?
budwich's Avatar budwich
10:23 AM Liked: 21
post #23 of 23
02-20-2013 | Posts: 1,325
Joined: Dec 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnlsn01 View Post

I am trying really hard to not have to re run the HDMI line, the Receiver only has a HDMI out. No Component out like someone else requested. Reasoning when running this in testing it was very breif to make sure everything was connected. However to rerun the line I would have to pull up the entire floor.

You might have to... but as suggested, did you check / turn off all / video processing in the receiver (scaling etc)??? Further testing suggestion, turn off all incoming hdmi video sources to the receiver. Go to the tuner input / selection and also the receiver menu... it should display thru your hdmi connection on your tv. Go wild with your ON/OFF powering around the house. Does your display stay OK???
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