Sound setup problem, receiver YAMAHA RX-V471, low dialog volume - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 02-19-2013, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Good afternoon guys, I bought this receiver YAMAHA RX-V471 but I'm having trouble adjusting the sound of my system with 2 Klipsch KG 3 speakers. I only have these 2 front speakers, the receiver is adjusted to 2 channels, i have disabled the center, woofer, satellites, etc. .. Listening to music is alright (although a little too heavy on bass for my taste, but OK), but when I try to listen to my digital TV channel dialogues are very low. i don´tknow if it's some incompatibility with my speakers or some fine adjustments in the receiver. I also thought it could be an option to buy a central speaker for the dialogues.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Thank you very much.
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post #2 of 19 Old 02-19-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JimiC View Post

Good afternoon guys, I bought this receiver YAMAHA RX-V471 but I'm having trouble adjusting the sound of my system with 2 Klipsch KG 3 speakers. I only have these 2 front speakers, the receiver is adjusted to 2 channels, i have disabled the center, woofer, satellites, etc. .. Listening to music is alright (although a little too heavy on bass for my taste, but OK), but when I try to listen to my digital TV channel dialogues are very low. i don´tknow if it's some incompatibility with my speakers or some fine adjustments in the receiver. I also thought it could be an option to buy a central speaker for the dialogues.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Thank you very much.

I would definitely buy a center speaker for dialog immediately, then later on Left/Right surrounds and finally a sub. That'll make up a nice 5.1 system. If funds don't allow immediate purchase, why not make up a phased plan based on "cash-flow" projection. smile.gif
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post #3 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks mogorf,
if a lower budget in mind, i´m thinking of the Yamaha NS-C210 central speaker, do you think it´s nice?
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post #4 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 08:02 AM
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Thanks mogorf,
if a lower budget in mind, i´m thinking of the Yamaha NS-C210 central speaker, do you think it´s nice?

To tell you the truth I wouldn't recommend it. Why? Please always look at sensitivity specs of speakers. This Yamaha center is rated at 86 dB, only. The higer the sensitivity the less power you need to pump into the speaker from the amp side, thus less distortion, less heat build up, longer expected lifetime.

If you look at the specs of your Klipsch KG 3s you will see it says 94 dB. Wow! Did you know +3 dB difference means that only half the power is needed for the same volume level?

I'd heartfully recommend you a Klipsch center like the RC-42 II which is rated at 95 dB sensitivity. Dunno the price though, but on the long run you will surely be better off with a center from the same maker. Especially when it comes to timbre-matching (tonal matching) a set of speakers for your HT system.

Hope I could help. smile.gif
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post #5 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, it makes sense, but it´s double the price...
I found another Klipsch, the WC24, not much cheaper but $50 less.
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post #6 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 09:26 AM
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This would be the best match for your current KG speakers and much cheaper too. Its the KG 2.5 center channel.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-KG-2-5v-Dual-6-5-2-Way-Center-Channel-Speaker-/251228547401?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item3a7e636949

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post #7 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks afrogt, nice idea.
it says it was a floor model, is there a problema picking a floor model to use it as a center for dialog matters?
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post #8 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

This would be the best match for your current KG speakers and much cheaper too. Its the KG 2.5 center channel.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-KG-2-5v-Dual-6-5-2-Way-Center-Channel-Speaker-/251228547401?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item3a7e636949

+1. Also sensitivity wise it looks promising: 93 dB. smile.gif
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post #9 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you think there is a problem using a floor speaker as a center speaker?
Besides, it´s a big speaker compared to a normal center one, but could be a good idea.
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post #10 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JimiC View Post

Do you think there is a problem using a floor speaker as a center speaker?
Besides, it´s a big speaker compared to a normal center one, but could be a good idea.

I see no problem here, just set it up horizontally and make sure it faces seated ear height so it can ensure best dialog intelligibility. smile.gif
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post #11 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimiC View Post

Do you think there is a problem using a floor speaker as a center speaker?
Besides, it´s a big speaker compared to a normal center one, but could be a good idea.

 

EDIT: I just checked the link and that speaker is specially designed for the centre channel - why would you think it would not therefore work well as a centre channel speaker?

 

There could be a big problem if you have to turn a regular tower-style speaker on its side. A floor standing speaker has been designed to be used upright. Its dispersion characteristics off-axis may well be very different when it is orientated sideways. You could suffer lobing issues and other problems. Even worse, if the off-axis frequency response suffers from using a speaker in a way the designer did not intend it to be used, then timing and phase response issues will follow on. You could find problems with imaging and a 'phasey' sound.

 

The centre channel is by far the most important channel in a 5.1 HT system and it is not where you really want to make compromises. Ideally you would have 3 identical speakers across the front, but this is often difficult to accommodate. The next best thing is to choose a purpose-designed horizontal centre speaker from the range made by the manufacturer who made your right and left speakers. Often each model in a range will have a corresponding centre speaker, designed to work, as best as possible, with the R & L speakers.

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post #12 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Barnes, but you can see the sentece on top of that ebay ad: “Was a floor model, minor shelf scuffs, Functions as designed”, that´s why i asked.
There´s another one here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-KV-3-KV3-Center-speaker-system-BLACK-made-in-USA-/251232493877?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item3a7e9fa135
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post #13 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimiC View Post

Thanks Barnes, but you can see the sentece on top of that ebay ad: “Was a floor model, minor shelf scuffs, Functions as designed”, that´s why i asked.
There´s another one here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-KV-3-KV3-Center-speaker-system-BLACK-made-in-USA-/251232493877?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item3a7e9fa135

Oh, sorry - I see what you mean. By 'floor' model they mean one that has been on display*. I was thinking they meant it was a floorstanding model! D'oh!  Anyway, it is a purpose designed centre speaker and it is made by the manufacturer of the R & L speakers so it is almost certain it will be a better match than the Yamaha. Speakers from different makers are all 'voiced' differently. Chances are all Klipsch will be voiced in a similar way. Ideally, the one specially made to accompany the L & R speakers would be best.

 

*In England we would call it a 'display model'.

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post #14 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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You know what? I thought it meant a floorstanding model! hahaha
Anyway.
Do you think it´s worth $100? (with shipping included) ? Because it´s used...
Thanks
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post #15 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 03:46 PM
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You know what? I thought it meant a floorstanding model! hahaha
Anyway.
Do you think it´s worth $100? (with shipping included) ? Because it´s used...
Thanks

 

Hard to say what it is worth as I have no experience at all of Klipsch. We don't get them over here. Speakers are usually a good buy on the used market because they rarely go wrong. If it represents a good saving on the new price, then I'd say it was worth considering if it is in line with your budget. Buying used is a great way to build up a good HT and save some cash at the same time IMO. People are always getting rid of good gear because they have serious Upgraditis.

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post #16 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, the newest model mogorf suggested is $200, big difference for me.
Just wondering as i don´t have experience with HT systems, these surround receivers "throw" de dialogs to the center speaker automatically?
My old stereo receiver didn´t have the problems with dialog in stereo, i think it´s a shame you have to buy a central speaker.
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post #17 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JimiC View Post

Yes, the newest model mogorf suggested is $200, big difference for me.
Just wondering as i don´t have experience with HT systems, these surround receivers "throw" de dialogs to the center speaker automatically?
My old stereo receiver didn´t have the problems with dialog in stereo, i think it´s a shame you have to buy a central speaker.

 

Virtually all the dialogue in a movie comes from the centre speaker. But there is a reason a centre channel/speaker is essential. Movies are often (usually) watched by more than one person at the same time. If no physical center channel was used, then unless all the listeners were sitting exactly between the speakers (which is impossible of course) the dialogue would be off centre for each listener who was seated at either side of the centre line. Using a centre channel 'anchors' the dialogue to the centre of the soundstage no matter where you are sitting. So the listeners off to the sides still hear the dialogue as though it was coming from centre-screen, as intended 99% of the time. It is by far the most important channel for 5.1 movie sound.

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post #18 of 19 Old 02-20-2013, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimiC

Do you think there is a problem using a floor speaker as a center speaker?
Besides, it´s a big speaker compared to a normal center one, but could be a good idea.
Quote:
You know what? I thought it meant a floorstanding model! hahaha
Anyway.
Do you think it´s worth $100? (with shipping included) ? Because it´s used...

I kept asking myself "what's wrong with this guy? A floor model means it was a demo in the store" confused.gif

Glad you finally figured that out! smile.gif

Your speakers are 20+ years old, it's gonna be difficult to impossible to find a matching center in new condition. If you're gonna find something that matches its gonna be used. You were looking at buying a non matching Yamaha center with 3" drivers for $100. I'd get the KG 2.5 in a heartbeat over the Yamaha.

These speakers were manufactured from 1994-1997. As long as they're well taken care of it'll be good with your KG3 speakers.

I have some 20 year old Energy Encore bookshelf speakers in my office. No problems with them at all. After that bought some Energy 2.1e bookshelf speakers which are from the late 90's I think. They work great too. As long as the previous owners take care of their stuff you should be fine.

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post #19 of 19 Old 02-21-2013, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks afrogt, i thought floor model was a floorstanding or tower speaker. English is not my main language. Thank you for your help.
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