Friend recommends shutting off Audyssey after installing separate amplification - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 02-26-2013, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a friend who is sometimes a bit over the edge audiophilest. None the less after hooking up a Sunfire cinema grand amp to a denon 3312 powering a pair of B&W CM5 and matching center, he is suggesting that I disable audyssey now because of the reverse phasing signals it sends out to clear up mudding and/or glare. He also wanted me to focus on setting up the speakers better, cabling, acoustics, etc. He said more but his tech talk cab be a bit overwhelming after a while so I figured I'd reach out to you guys. I personally think it sounds bland and lifeless bypassing it but at this point I am not sure what one would do it my case.


I have tried searching this particular case with not much results to my satisfaction before I dedicate an entire day to re-arranging my set up (as if we dont do this enough with out "addiction" eh hem hobby)

3 things in life my father said to me

1. Deny till death
2. If you dont sleep with her, someone else will
3. If it dont fit, force it
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post #2 of 12 Old 02-26-2013, 08:26 AM
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I would think an Audyssey run after a new amp install could only do mostly good. Keep in mind that the consumer Audyssey allows it to implement in rooms that the professional version would simply state and I am paraphrasing here. "Throw out the room and start over from scratch"

He is right that treating the room probably would have the most benefit though.


Which channels are being powered by the Sunfire? In my opinion if the system is used for movies / video content? You have to power the LCR speakers if you add amp(s).

I'd bank the cabling and speaker wire would have little to no effect as long as it is working.
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post #3 of 12 Old 02-26-2013, 09:07 AM
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Continue to use Audyssey. The only thing adding an external amp will do is likely change the overall amplification factor on those channels since it will probably have a fixed gain that is different from the fixed gain in the power amp section of your receiver. So you will need to run Audyssey again so it can compensate for that. But it otherwise makes NO difference.

Speaker placement/angle and room treatments/placement of furniture/etc. are also important and could probably also be optimized for better sound if you haven't spent much time on that. But even if you don't do that, still use Audyssey (heck, Audyssey will probably be MORE important if you don't do the proper set-up work, since your system will likely require more correcting than it otherwise would). And even if you do optimize your room, I still recommend using (or at least trying) Audyssey.

Don't let him talk you into buying new cables, though, unless it's worthwhile stuff like upgrading video connections from composite/S-video/component to HDMI. Don't let him talk you into expensive speaker cables or anything like that. They won't make ANY difference at ALL, regardless of what he tells you. Since you did mention he mentioned cables, I assume he's going to try to convince you to buy a bunch of stuff you do NOT need, not even slightly.

"Vintage" is good for wine, not for A/V equipment.

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post #4 of 12 Old 02-26-2013, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonoMan View Post

Continue to use Audyssey. The only thing adding an external amp will do is likely change the overall amplification factor on those channels since it will probably have a fixed gain that is different from the fixed gain in the power amp section of your receiver. So you will need to run Audyssey again so it can compensate for that. But it otherwise makes NO difference.

Speaker placement/angle and room treatments/placement of furniture/etc. are also important and could probably also be optimized for better sound if you haven't spent much time on that. But even if you don't do that, still use Audyssey (heck, Audyssey will probably be MORE important if you don't do the proper set-up work, since your system will likely require more correcting than it otherwise would). And even if you do optimize your room, I still recommend using (or at least trying) Audyssey.

Don't let him talk you into buying new cables, though, unless it's worthwhile stuff like upgrading video connections from composite/S-video/component to HDMI. Don't let him talk you into expensive speaker cables or anything like that. They won't make ANY difference at ALL, regardless of what he tells you. Since you did mention he mentioned cables, I assume he's going to try to convince you to buy a bunch of stuff you do NOT need, not even slightly.


Well oddly enough he isnt trying to push anything down my throat for expensive cabling other than making sure the cable is twisted and (he prefers bi-wiring but to each is own) but he just flat out recommends not using audyssey at all any longer after separate amplification. I tried ABing the two and honestly running direct with no correction sounds dull and flat..

3 things in life my father said to me

1. Deny till death
2. If you dont sleep with her, someone else will
3. If it dont fit, force it
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post #5 of 12 Old 02-26-2013, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by kingofthecrate View Post

Well oddly enough he isnt trying to push anything down my throat for expensive cabling other than making sure the cable is twisted and (he prefers bi-wiring but to each is own) but he just flat out recommends not using audyssey at all any longer after separate amplification. I tried ABing the two and honestly running direct with no correction sounds dull and flat..

He's wrong in every way there. Twisted cable has literally ZERO benefits for audio. The only cable type that can improve quality (only in some cases) at these frequencies is coaxial. And it doesn't matter for speakers mainly because speakers are of a low enough impedance that induced current in the wires is typically not nearly enough to be audible compared to the actual signal. Typically doesn't matter for short cable runs that aren't bundled up next to power wires either. Coax can in some cases reduce signal interference. But if you don't hear a noise problem, coax won't help. It's not used for speaker wire anyway. You won't notice any difference between speaker wires unless you use one that's so small compared to the length or power being run over it that it actually adds significant impedance to the circuit, changing the electrical Q of your speaker and such. But that's unlikely unless you're using ridiculous cable like say 20-22 gauge or you've got really long wire runs or you run a lot of power, etc.

You can use "twisted pair" wire for speakers if you want, as long as it's of a high enough gauge, but it won't do anything for you over straight cable. I have made CAT-5 based speaker cables before. They worked fine, but they did not increase the quality, and they wouldn't increase quality for you, either.

He just has absolutely no idea what he's talking about with the Audyssey/separate amp thing. They are totally unrelated, just that a separate amp being a change in the system requires Audyssey to be re-run, just like changing your speakers (or even moving them or changing their angles) requires you to re-run Audyssey.

"Vintage" is good for wine, not for A/V equipment.

-Dan D.
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post #6 of 12 Old 02-26-2013, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DonoMan View Post



He just has absolutely no idea what he's talking about with the Audyssey/separate amp thing. They are totally unrelated, just that a separate amp being a change in the system requires Audyssey to be re-run, just like changing your speakers (or even moving them or changing their angles) requires you to re-run Audyssey.

Thats what I had figured because audyssey (to my knowledge) is for room correction and eq so, it was just his opinion in that we ALL have our own way of doing things that help us sleep better at night. I just figured i'd ask the consensus out here in AVS land to gather some more input..biggrin.gif

3 things in life my father said to me

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2. If you dont sleep with her, someone else will
3. If it dont fit, force it
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post #7 of 12 Old 02-26-2013, 09:49 AM
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I say rerun Audyssey and give it a listen for yourself. I would expect that you'll want to use it unless your room and speakers are absolutely phenomenal.

If your friend notices that Audyssey is on, tell him you tried it, and got inkier blacks, more dynamic highs, and creamier middles.

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post #8 of 12 Old 02-26-2013, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by JD in NJ View Post

If your friend notices that Audyssey is on, tell him you tried it, and got inkier blacks, more dynamic highs, and creamier middles.

Don't forget the phrase "night and day difference" which belongs in ANY "audiophile" discussion... lol

"Vintage" is good for wine, not for A/V equipment.

-Dan D.
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post #9 of 12 Old 02-26-2013, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by DonoMan View Post

Don't forget the phrase "night and day difference" which belongs in ANY "audiophile" discussion... lol

"Subtle but significant" is my favorite bit of audiofluff.

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post #10 of 12 Old 02-26-2013, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JD in NJ View Post

"Subtle but significant" is my favorite bit of audiofluff.


Always a crowd pleaser!!! eek.gif


Although I am pretty steamed myself after running speakers in my kitchen and outdoor patio just to find out that denon wont take a digital input signal and DA it for zone 2 or 3 and whats the purpose of zone 3 if you cant hook up a stereo pair?

3 things in life my father said to me

1. Deny till death
2. If you dont sleep with her, someone else will
3. If it dont fit, force it
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post #11 of 12 Old 02-26-2013, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kingofthecrate View Post

Always a crowd pleaser!!! eek.gif


Although I am pretty steamed myself after running speakers in my kitchen and outdoor patio just to find out that denon wont take a digital input signal and DA it for zone 2 or 3 and whats the purpose of zone 3 if you cant hook up a stereo pair?

Not just Denon, the majority of the AVR brands handle only analog audio signals for multizones. EZ solution just run an L/R analog cable from each source component..

Just my $0.02... wink.gif
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post #12 of 12 Old 02-26-2013, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Not just Denon, the majority of the AVR brands handle only analog audio signals for multizones. EZ solution just run an L/R analog cable from each source component..

Just my $0.02... wink.gif

Yeah its just I don't really have anything that has analog outputs anymore. I either stream flac via lightpipe from my macbook, or airplay via imac. Its really not so much an issue since those will still play through zone 2. My issue now is getting my patio speakers to run but I have a stewart audio PA-100B that I can hook up for the rears, although I know those amps don't get high praise, its a temporary solution for my patio speakers.

3 things in life my father said to me

1. Deny till death
2. If you dont sleep with her, someone else will
3. If it dont fit, force it
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