Diminishing sound - Marantz SR6007 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 13 Old 02-27-2013, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I just purchased a Marantz SR6007. I only have two Martin Logan Motion 4 speakers connected to the front left & right channels. It has all been set up using the room correction. It sounds pretty good but I would like to have just a little bass boost from those little speakers. The problem is unless the receiver is set like this: The MultEQ XT is set to "Audyssey", The Dynamic EQ is set to "on", The Reference Level is set to "0dB", and The Dynamic Volume is set to "Light , Medium, or Heavy" I barely get any sound at all. If I try to use the Graphic Equalizer the sound goes way down, I have to turn the volume on those little Motion 4's up to 70. If I am using the settings that are listed above I hear it fine with the volume set at 20.
In the MultEQ XT setting why does it have to be set to "Audyssey" or "Audyssey Flat" to get any real significant sound? What could be wrong? It just seems strange that unless Audyssey is being used hardly any sound is produced.
Has anyone else ran into this problem?
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post #2 of 13 Old 02-27-2013, 10:38 AM
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Your AVR is working exactly as it should. There's a reason you ran the Audyssey calibration. wink.gif

I would recommend that you turn Dynamic Volume off, all your other settings are where they should be.

If you use the graphic EQ, you are disabling Audyssey's EQ - don't do that. cool.gif
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post #3 of 13 Old 02-27-2013, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replay Alan P. But there is something else wrong with this brand new AVR. It has only been hooked up for less than 12 hours. I just spoke with a Technical Assistant there at Marantz and he told me that switching the MultEQ XT mode from Audyssey to Off or Graphic EQ, it should not make that much of a dramatic difference. If the Dynamic Volume is set to off it is hardly audible too.
If I have the "MultEQ XT" set to Off or Graphic EQ, or the "Dynamic Volume" set to off the little two Motion 4 speakers cannot be heard from 6 feet away with the volume at level 25 unless the room is totally quiet, then you can hear a soft whisper. To watch a movie at a good volume it would have to be to at least 65-75 and the volume is totally maxed out when set at at 98. Shoot, that AVR should blow those little speakers at that level.
The Marantz Technician told me how to reset the SR 6007 to factory defaults. I did that and it did not make any difference. He said if that if the issue still persists then there is something wrong with the processor and to return it to the place where it was purchased. Looks like I'll be taking a trip back to the local B.B. store.
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post #4 of 13 Old 02-27-2013, 01:00 PM
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How old of a receiver are you coming from?

Modern receivers use a different volume scale than older ones did and can sometimes needlessly concern people. Your level of 65-70 for movies is perfectly normal. You shouldn't expect to hear much of anything at 25, all totally normal.

Also, why do you care what it sounds like with Audsyssey turned off? This should be turned on at all times to get the most for your money - you paid for the room EQ, why wouldn't you want to use it?

My suggestion stands - turn off Dynamic Volume, keep Dynamic EQ on and use your volume control. Unless you can't get it too loud for your ears (at 90+ or so), your setup is working just fine.
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post #5 of 13 Old 02-27-2013, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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The AVR I am talking about is only about 15 hours out of the box. And turning Audyssey off to be able to use the Graphic EQ is what I would like to do, that is a feature and I paid for. If not, why is it even installed on the SR6007? If it can't handle these two speakers I don't see how it will ever power a full blown 5.1 system. If this really is operating the proper way it was designed to I'm sorry I ever even considered a Marantz product.
I have heard others and they sounded great and at a LOUD volume, not just ok at a very moderate level. If that Graphic EQ takes away sooo much of the performance what is it really for? Hopefully I'll get a replacement with no hassles or just get my money back completely. Spending over twelve hundred duckets before taxes...... I think one should be satisfied.
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post #6 of 13 Old 02-27-2013, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonomaComa View Post

The AVR I am talking about is only about 15 hours out of the box.

No...I said "How old of a receiver are you coming from?", not "How old is your receiver?".
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And turning Audyssey off to be able to use the Graphic EQ is what I would like to do, that is a feature and I paid for.

I don't blame you. Just be aware that your system will always sound better with Audyssey enabled.
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I have heard others and they sounded great and at a LOUD volume, not just ok at a very moderate level.

So, when you turn it up, it sounds bad? From your previous posts it sounded like you just weren't satisfied with the volume level you were getting at a certain master volume setting.

FWIW, I recently got a Denon 2113ci and couldn't be happier. You may want to look at the xx13 line of Denon's if/when you return your Marantz.
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post #7 of 13 Old 02-27-2013, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonomaComa View Post

I just purchased a Marantz SR6007. I only have two Martin Logan Motion 4 speakers connected to the front left & right channels. It has all been set up using the room correction. It sounds pretty good but I would like to have just a little bass boost from those little speakers.

Hi SonomaComa, if you'd really like to have a little bass boost within a 2.0 setup and the Martin Logan Motion 4s, I'm afraid you won't easily reach such Nirvana. Those speakers are not really capable to work in the Bass Department, though worry not until you can have/buy a capable subwoofer for your system. In a nutshell this is my advice to you on your lack of bass issue. I think there is nothing wrong with the Marantz at all. smile.gif
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post #8 of 13 Old 02-27-2013, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonomaComa View Post

The AVR I am talking about is only about 15 hours out of the box. And turning Audyssey off to be able to use the Graphic EQ is what I would like to do, that is a feature and I paid for. If not, why is it even installed on the SR6007? If it can't handle these two speakers I don't see how it will ever power a full blown 5.1 system. If this really is operating the proper way it was designed to I'm sorry I ever even considered a Marantz product.
I have heard others and they sounded great and at a LOUD volume, not just ok at a very moderate level. If that Graphic EQ takes away sooo much of the performance what is it really for? Hopefully I'll get a replacement with no hassles or just get my money back completely. Spending over twelve hundred duckets before taxes...... I think one should be satisfied.

I'd reiterate Alan P's question. If your former receiver is old enough not to self-calibrate, and end especially if it does not to have its volume denominated in decibels or fractions thereof, we revert to the old saw that the position of the volume control means precisely zero about the output of the device. Because output depends on how the volume control and gain staging are set up and none of us know that about older receivers. a brief aside: until the last few years, Fender's "Hot Rod" guitar amps all had linear potentiometers in their master volume controls, rather than audio taper of log pots. Why? Well because sound reacts logarithmically to power, so with a linear pot, you get 90 percent as loud as you possibly can with one-tenth of a turn of the knob. Kids in stores thought they'd found the most powerful things in the world. But while not underpowered for rational applications, they didn't have much more to give above that WOW! level. And because in normal situations one plays less than full out, it made actually setting the correct volume for a gig, within that mere one tenth of a turn of the knob. a giant PITA. Fender finally straightened that out on the version III of these amps . . .)

Your Marantz's volume control is denominated in decibels. Every three decibels changes the power by a factor of two, and typically 3 dB is thought of as one notch louder or quieter, although people differ. Every 10 dB changes the power by a factor of 10. So you may be overestimating how far you have the Marantz turned up. Particularly if it remains set so that the numbers on the volume readout go down as you increase volume. That likely means that a 0 on the volume dial you'd be using enough power to achieve reference levels - 105 dB per speaker when the content is as (digitally) loud as it can get. So -10 is one tenth that power, about half as loud as reference, and still about twice as loud as I typically listen to movies FWIW. Also note that with my merely mortal speakers, although I am calibrated to reference, I am perfectly confident that my speakers won't actually reach those levels at the expected power because they'll be compressing,.
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post #9 of 13 Old 02-27-2013, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonomaComa View Post

The AVR I am talking about is only about 15 hours out of the box. And turning Audyssey off to be able to use the Graphic EQ is what I would like to do, that is a feature and I paid for. If not, why is it even installed on the SR6007? If it can't handle these two speakers I don't see how it will ever power a full blown 5.1 system. If this really is operating the proper way it was designed to I'm sorry I ever even considered a Marantz product.
I have heard others and they sounded great and at a LOUD volume, not just ok at a very moderate level. If that Graphic EQ takes away sooo much of the performance what is it really for? Hopefully I'll get a replacement with no hassles or just get my money back completely. Spending over twelve hundred duckets before taxes...... I think one should be satisfied.

JHaz gave a brilliant explanation here. I'll give another, although dumbed down to my level. Basically, you're concerned about nothing. The way AVR'swork today, there is an exponential increase in SPL as you get higher in the volume range. There is a much bigger difference in volume from 70-90 than there is from 0-60, even though it would seem like it shouldnt be. I am using a Marantz SR6006, the precursor to your model. My speakers are MUCH larger than yours (three 7" woofers, two 5.25" mids and a 1" tweeter in each of them) and the 6006 can drive them louder than I care to use, with enough bass to turn my sub off for 2 channel listening.

The Motion 4's only have a 4" woofer, they're not going to produce any decent amount of bass no matter what AVR you have (70hz max bottom end). Matter of fact, they're power handling of 75 wpc is lower than the output of the 6007 (>110 wpc). Return the Marantz if you like, but just be informed.

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post #10 of 13 Old 02-27-2013, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea, those Motion 4's do have pinner little woofers and a nice folded ribbon tweeter. That's ok because they are 6-6 1/2 feet away from my listening area and 5 feet apart. They are on little stands right on the corner of my bed. Placement is perfect. And it will absolutely without a doubt need a sub. The mids and highs are great for movies and just all around TV especially at that distance.
But the whole issue I was having with the huge drop in volume when switching the MultEQ XT from Audyssey to the Graphic EQ is that I was listening to music directly through the Comcast HD Cable Box. You know, go to channel 2 and then go lower to the music channels. If I stream music from Pandora through the Roku or play a CD and then turn off Audyssey and turn on the Graphic EQ the volume does not really change that much. I'm telling you, the difference is huge when listening to music or even regular TV and try using the Graphic EQ instead of Audyssey. I think I am going to need to contact the cable company and see what can be done about that.
But also I thought I read somewhere that sometimes Marantz has an issue with Samsung TV's. This one is a 65" 8 Series.

I do know one thing for sure, there is a wealth of knowledge here on this here website. You guys really know your stuff, lots of experience. I would like to thank everybody for responding! biggrin.gif
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post #11 of 13 Old 02-28-2013, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonomaComa View Post

Yea, those Motion 4's do have pinner little woofers and a nice folded ribbon tweeter. That's ok because they are 6-6 1/2 feet away from my listening area and 5 feet apart. They are on little stands right on the corner of my bed. Placement is perfect. And it will absolutely without a doubt need a sub. The mids and highs are great for movies and just all around TV especially at that distance.
But the whole issue I was having with the huge drop in volume when switching the MultEQ XT from Audyssey to the Graphic EQ is that I was listening to music directly through the Comcast HD Cable Box. You know, go to channel 2 and then go lower to the music channels. If I stream music from Pandora through the Roku or play a CD and then turn off Audyssey and turn on the Graphic EQ the volume does not really change that much. I'm telling you, the difference is huge when listening to music or even regular TV and try using the Graphic EQ instead of Audyssey. I think I am going to need to contact the cable company and see what can be done about that.
But also I thought I read somewhere that sometimes Marantz has an issue with Samsung TV's. This one is a 65" 8 Series.

I do know one thing for sure, there is a wealth of knowledge here on this here website. You guys really know your stuff, lots of experience. I would like to thank everybody for responding! biggrin.gif

It sounds like you have Dynamic Volume engaged and when Audyssey is on it's bringing lower level sounds up.

Also, FWIW, if it matters, you probably paid more for the Audyssey license and the software and hardware to run their thousands of finite impule response filters than you did for the graphic EQ in the receiver.

And of course the answer to everybody's "why did I have to pay for _____ (fill in the blank, whether it's legacy connections, sound modes they'll never use, etc etc) is that we've known since Henry Ford that it's cheaper to build an assembly line and crank out a whole ot of the same thing than it is to create multiple more targeted devices. Even more so today when each separate device, as I understand it, would require a few tens of thousands of dollars for each country you sell into to get UL (or equivalent) approval, ROHs certification in the EU, etc etc etc. So to get a receiver without Audyssey would cost more than taking one with it, just because of increased costs associated with shorter runs on the line, engineering and other overhead costs . . . and the ones with Audyssey would go up too, for the same reasons.
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post #12 of 13 Old 02-28-2013, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SonomaComa View Post

Yea, those Motion 4's do have pinner little woofers and a nice folded ribbon tweeter. That's ok because they are 6-6 1/2 feet away from my listening area and 5 feet apart. They are on little stands right on the corner of my bed. Placement is perfect. And it will absolutely without a doubt need a sub. The mids and highs are great for movies and just all around TV especially at that distance.
But the whole issue I was having with the huge drop in volume when switching the MultEQ XT from Audyssey to the Graphic EQ is that I was listening to music directly through the Comcast HD Cable Box. You know, go to channel 2 and then go lower to the music channels. If I stream music from Pandora through the Roku or play a CD and then turn off Audyssey and turn on the Graphic EQ the volume does not really change that much. I'm telling you, the difference is huge when listening to music or even regular TV and try using the Graphic EQ instead of Audyssey. I think I am going to need to contact the cable company and see what can be done about that.
But also I thought I read somewhere that sometimes Marantz has an issue with Samsung TV's. This one is a 65" 8 Series.

I do know one thing for sure, there is a wealth of knowledge here on this here website. You guys really know your stuff, lots of experience. I would like to thank everybody for responding! biggrin.gif

Before you contact the cable company, like JHAz said make sure you have Dynamic Volume turned off on the input your using for your cable box. I am absolutely sure this is what is causing the issue you are having with cable - it is not your cable box.

Also, Audyssey settings are INPUT specific, so when you have Dyn Vol turned off for one it is not necessarily turned off for other inputs.
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post #13 of 13 Old 02-28-2013, 08:55 AM
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I was helping a fellow out the other day with a new setup.He has a nice polk speaker setup.floorstanders and sub the whole shooting match.He was complaining to me that he just could not got any real levels out of his amp NR1403.So i told him i would stop by and help him dial it in.Sure enough when i was there,could tell something was frigged up.You had to turn it up to referance level with a sat /5.1 signal to even get some audability out of it.I played with the settings and nothing seemed out of the ordinary.Threw in some stereo content and it was the same thing.When cranked to +7 it went into shut down mode and would not turn back on unless cold booting it for 30 sec.Had no other choice but told him to take it back and get a replacement.Something serious not right with it.

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