Anybody listened to Crown Drivecore xls 2000 and 2500 amps for 2 channel main speaker listening,versus a so called high end home amp. - Page 5 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 150 Old 10-07-2014, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AVNut57 View Post
I just wanted to help those reading to know there are choices in audio gear, not blow smoke you know where or sound like some "Audiophile snob" All the amps mentioned are good & when you listen to them side by side, you probably will not hear a difference. BUT some mentioned are very good & anyone with music they know will hear the difference. Sorry for the over the hill wording!
I never had the time or budget I have now so I'm very Passionate about these new Toys!
Being passionate doesn't mean you should try to translate that subjective experience into a technical description.....or even English for that matter.... "anyone with music they will know will hear the difference" just hurts to read.
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post #122 of 150 Old 10-07-2014, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Being passionate doesn't mean you should try to translate that subjective experience into a technical description.....or even English for that matter.... "anyone with music they will know will hear the difference" just hurts to read.
Please when quoting me put the words in the correct order so those folks reading will get my meaning!
Anyone with Music "they know" will hear the difference.
Ironic since you said I would be the one mis-quoting!
Now it's me who cannot understand your words?
I should not try to translate? or even English?
You need to explain yourself! The thread is about the XLS amps & so called high end home amps in a 2 channel setting.
so here are 2 pics of 2 amps why don't you start us off with identifying some parts & how they relate & please tell us in your words how they sound?
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post #123 of 150 Old 10-07-2014, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVNut57 View Post
Please when quoting me put the words in the correct order so those folks reading will get my meaning!
Anyone with Music "they know" will hear the difference.
Ironic since you said I would be the one mis-quoting!
Now it's me who cannot understand your words?
I should not try to translate? or even English?
You need to explain yourself! The thread is about the XLS amps & so called high end home amps in a 2 channel setting.
so here are 2 pics of 2 amps why don't you start us off with identifying some parts & how they relate & please tell us in your words how they sound?
Got me! Its still an awkward sentence but not as awkward as I thought I'd read...sorry.

Not sure what the pics of the innards of the Parasound and Crown amps are supposed to lead to?
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post #124 of 150 Old 10-07-2014, 08:24 PM
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Own a number of amps/receivers. Can't say my Crown amps sound different than my receivers or Emotiva.

High end just means expensive in my experience. I don't have the budget to test out $5000+ amplifiers.

Of course people will swear they hear night and day differences in amps, but it you could set up a blind listening test, would they still hear it?

So opinions will differ

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #125 of 150 Old 10-08-2014, 06:09 AM
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how much is to much?Crown & emo sound same?

[QUOTE=MichaelJHuman;28038634]Own a number of amps/receivers. Can't say my Crown amps sound different than my receivers or Emotiva.

High end just means expensive in my experience. I don't have the budget to test out $5000+ amplifiers.

Of course people will swear they hear night and day differences in amps, but it you could set up a blind listening test, would they still hear it?

So opinions will differ If I et up 3 amps & each listener has some music they know well= I like classic rock so if I put on something I know every single note & inflection the speed & timing the bass etc etc, I "I" will notice a bright or bass heavy or warm presentation. If a room full of people does not register what I have described then the test has not yielded beyond a reasonable doubt that there is any difference between amp sounds. SIMPLE!! & furthermore if the room is filled with reviewers that do not get "PAID" for this they should score higher in evaluating the "Signature sounds"


Regarding $5000.00 amps this is my view, IMHO!! the average jane & joe work hard for a living & will most probably not have the inclination to spend even close to that on the entire setup 2 chnl, home theatre with multiples you might be able to progressively saving. With that being said!
The thresholds, VTL, krell Conrad Johnson carver etc etc were made by men & women who toiled endlessly plugging in little items failing 100's of times until they came up with a marketable recipe, that the masses liked??
Have I said Anything untrue?
PS my first a/b was Crown xls-1500 vs emo UPA
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post #126 of 150 Old 10-08-2014, 08:11 AM
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The "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard may be useful when sending some guy to the chair, but may be a bit of overkill (pun intended) for amp comparisons.

People make subjective purchase decisions all the time when buying electronics.

Emotiva puts their shiny blue lights on their products for a reason, and it has nothing to do with sound.
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post #127 of 150 Old 10-08-2014, 01:08 PM
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[quote=AVNut57;28045570]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post
If I et up 3 amps & each listener has some music they know well= I like classic rock so if I put on something I know every single note & inflection the speed & timing the bass etc etc, I "I" will notice a bright or bass heavy or warm presentation. If a room full of people does not register what I have described then the test has not yielded beyond a reasonable doubt that there is any difference between amp sounds. SIMPLE!! & furthermore if the room is filled with reviewers that do not get "PAID" for this they should score higher in evaluating the "Signature sounds"


Regarding $5000.00 amps this is my view, IMHO!! the average jane & joe work hard for a living & will most probably not have the inclination to spend even close to that on the entire setup 2 chnl, home theatre with multiples you might be able to progressively saving. With that being said!
The thresholds, VTL, krell Conrad Johnson carver etc etc were made by men & women who toiled endlessly plugging in little items failing 100's of times until they came up with a marketable recipe, that the masses liked??
Have I said Anything untrue?
PS my first a/b was Crown xls-1500 vs emo UPA
?? So with each amp of the three you would find a bright or bass heavy or warm presentation? Are we talking about the recording or the amp?
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post #128 of 150 Old 10-08-2014, 02:45 PM
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Smile A solid common sense way to proceed!

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Originally Posted by aydu View Post
The "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard may be useful when sending some guy to the chair, but may be a bit of overkill (pun intended) for amp comparisons.

People make subjective purchase decisions all the time when buying electronics.

Emotiva puts their shiny blue lights on their products for a reason, and it has nothing to do with sound.

Let's say we get a bunch of guys in the room & we listen to say the crown & the Emotiva amps 1/2 the guys say A 1/2 the guys say B.. Regardless of what I think. The common sense conclusion is they are so close as to make the cheaper one he better deal! I buy a Crown XLS-1500 or an Emo done!
we're talking 300'ish take your choice class D or A/B.
When your talking bucks it's a bit more Important.
& yes I left out a ton of stats K I S S no snob verbiage from me today!! LOL
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post #129 of 150 Old 10-08-2014, 03:42 PM
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The biggest variable in a listening test is the listener. We all hear and our brains process the info received differently.
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post #130 of 150 Old 10-09-2014, 03:01 PM
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[QUOTE=aydu;28061610]The biggest variable in a listening test is the listener. We all hear and our brains process the info received different.


Since it's very hard to agree on this issue!! & because with out a doubt amps do sound different, & not just a little bass or treble mind you!
It seemed only fair to state majority Rules. The fact that cd's vary WIDELY!! & Speakers may be the MOST different of all I don't think anyone would disagree with. While the Crowns are a very attractive choice for a variety of reasons, they are not the only best bang for the buck.
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post #131 of 150 Old 10-10-2014, 11:23 AM
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Anybody that has taken or administered a hearing test knows the variance in our hearing ability and how it differs between individuals.

Unless audiology is a "scam" I suspect that most will agree that hearing (like any of the human senses) varies by individual.

I've heard speakers whose sound is so forward that it hurts me ears just to audition them at anything over a background level.

I've heard others whose sound signature is so laid back that I've wondered if the speakers were working properly.

Manufacturers continue to make, and people continue to buy both.

Those with acute (or trained) hearing go beyond the sonic signatures of the speakers, into the other components in the signal chain. While some hear no difference, others do.

One thing that is agreed upon is the fact that whatever you hear is "all in your head".
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post #132 of 150 Old 01-11-2015, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by coomaster View Post
Hi, I'm new to these forums ,so please have mercy on me. I have been listening to oldschool power amplifiers for many years,and really like the natural and powerfull sound that the Phase linear 700B, and the Soundcraftsman 5002 amplifiers produce. Both those amps to my ears seem to produce smooth sound quality,with good detail ,and good dynamics. I have no problem with the sound quality they produce. They stay clear right up to maximum volume, but I would still like it to be louder. I read a review by Andrew Robinson, on the crown xls 2000 amplifier.He said he was normally into home amplifiers for audiophille sound quality,but decided to try the crown drive core series amps.All said and done.At the end of the review.He said he was very impressed with the sound quality and dynamics the crown drivecore xls 2000 amp had.He said it was so good that he would be using it for his future referencing amp to measure other amplifiers against.I would like as much headroom as possible for dynamics ,etc.Plus my phase linear 700B is not loud enough ,so I thought I might as well spend the extra dollars ,and get the biggest crown drivecore amp. The drivecore xls 2500.My speakers are Yamaha ns1000 ,and are 8 ohm. My main concern ,since I have never heard any other power amps ,other than the two oldschool amplifiers I have listed is, Will I still get as good of sound quality out of the drivecore 2500 compared to the oldschool amps.By reading his review and a few others, it sounds like these crown amps even put most home audiophile amps to shame.Will they at least be as good as I have now for hiss free,high volume audiphile listening., and bring more headroom and dynamics to 2 channel listening,or is what I have already better. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
I will not claim to be a super audiophile, when I was younger for a couple years I was sales manager of an high end audio store and had plenty of exposure to the finest products.

Over the years my system has morphed many times from high end audio (with a Rock and R&B focus) to now heavily leaning towards home theater. I am based around a Yamaha DSP2070 and all Klipsch speakers assembled over time. A B&O linear turntable still sees use. and CD source is a Denon top of the line unit from 15 years back. I recently added a used Oppo BDP-105 DVD Blueray, I really like. The 2070 ran initially though a Yamaha B6 (you have to have used these to understand how well the can deliver power as needed and amazing damping) to the mains LaScalas with upgrade to professional drivers to handle up to 200 watts continuous.

The rest of the speakers 4 KG 1.2s and a KV3 center were handled thru 2 Adcom 2335s. A SW-15 does Sub duty. Also in the mix was and Audio Control C-22 and DBX-4BX, adding a need for lots of punch at times. I was quite pleased at most times with the audio sound quality and the ability take the most dramatic home theater challenges and deliver.

About 5 years back age got the the B-6 and I replaced it with a used 200watt Adcom to match other amps(do not remember the number). Honestly it never lived up. Lower end was never as powerful and always seemed mushy, and the high end lost something... never put my finger on what.

A couple times a year the main amp., LaScalas, and SW-15 take a trip to the local roller skating rink and are used by a family band preforming there. Again, the Adcom never seemed as good as I would like. Then it did me the favor of having problems, the next band appearance was coming and I decided to upgrade and picked the XLS 1500... but, one dealer on line had the 2000 for only a few dollars more. Got it... ran it at home a little and though I could directly compare side by side, not only did it put the Adcom to shame, but the B-6 probably too. Then Band night arrived and off we went to give a different work out in a very large room.... WOW.... that is it... LaScalas have the ability to fill the large area and have before, but not with this clarity and punch...actually it change how I mixed the SW-15 in. So now over the next year the other Adcoms will be replaced by additional XLS amps, so my whole theater experience can get this delivery.
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post #133 of 150 Old 01-25-2015, 02:09 PM
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Well, I decided to change my setup from consumer to "pro" - meaning a Denon DN500 pre/pro and three Crown 1500's powering 4 JBL 530 and a JBL 520 center.
I never could got it right because every element added some kind of colouring. Back in the days I started with German speakers, then changed to warm sounding British speakers. But I just missed something. Now the Americans.

One would say that the Crown's are hugely overpowered, though I believe it keeps it's THD down if it doesn't have to break sweat. Having said that, I managed to let the fans spin on all three amps with moderate load. The very, very -good thing is they are silent - you can only hear the flow of air. As a comparison, my CD player (old Marantz) makes more noise spinning the disk.
There is no sign of hiss. Absolutely nothing. Mind you I have compression drivers and horns. Could be because of my very in-sensitive speakers, or because of the all XLR setup.

All I can say is this set sounds clear, bright, deep and straightforward, I would say clinical. It does not add warmth, it just is. I would not call it a high end amplifier, because it was not designed for this purpose.. it is a workhorse. It is meant to deliver, and it does. Especially with high dynamical tracks (try some Berlioz!) you will not know what's happening. My Onkyo couldn't handle it. I think it can rival much higher priced consumer amps, and might even come close to high-end sound delivery.

Alternatives could be the Behringer A500, but since it lacks some protective features, I didn't think they are 'girlfriend proof'. I read some bad stuff regarding QSC's, so that was a no-go as well. Yamaha's P range was a no-go because girlfriend didn't like the design.

Having said all this, my girlfriend did have a mental breakdown seeing all this equipment and cables piling up in the living room, so I owe her big time. But it is worth it my friends
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post #134 of 150 Old 01-25-2015, 02:48 PM
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^ I haven't read any bad things about QSC but the fan on my RMX1850HD is really loud and it weighs a ton.

I am thinking my next big HT purchase is likely to be three XLS 2000 amplifiers. Initially will pair with my existing main amp (Odyssey Khartago) for a 7.1 setup (one channel unused). When funds allow will add two XLS 1500 amplifiers and use the three XLS 2000's to drive my L/C/R speakers active using the built-in XO feature.

These drivecore amps are pretty hard to beat.

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post #135 of 150 Old 01-25-2015, 03:10 PM
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I have a Crown XTi 1002 in the garage for sound

The reason it was selected was for man cave use (BBQs, parties and meeting law enforcement) Since a garage is not very acoustically pleasing, having the option to use the built-in parametric EQ is a bonus. To protect my DIY 3-way line arrays, I also backed off the limiter to -2.5dB (200 watts per channel into 6 ohms) My subwoofers use plate amps so the Crown pushes just the tops above 80Hz.

Sounds great to me! However, it is in a garage so that must be taken into account. I do wish Crown made some two and 4 channel amps with massive heatsinks down the sides with a thermal fan that only kicked in when it started to get hot. "Pro amps" tend to have small heatsinks to cut the weight/size and price down since cooling fans are required. When the warranty expires in another 2 years, I'll be adding more heatsinks to the amplifier and install a 120mm low speed fan to replace the 80mm loud fan. More heatsinking and slightly more airflow with a much larger and quieter fan will solve the problem. It is not mounted in a rack so top mounting a large fan won't be an issue.

Once you get used to power output meters, adjustable limiters to prevent clipping and knowing what the amplifiers is doing--it does tend to make audiophile amps look rather pathetic. The worst sounding amp is one that is clipping, why a lot of amplifiers and $2,500 receivers don't give clip lights is beyond me. The limiters also allow me to play classical at much higher levels and enjoy the dynamic range--without blowing my speakers.

My 25 year old pre-amp is dying It will be replaced with a DJ mixer so I can use the monitor outs to drive my subwoofers. Nice to have that adjustment at my fingertips to keep the party going. 3 channel mixers have very little in the way of parts count so have no problems exceeding 100dB S/N ratio. Throw in 3 band EQ, very generous metering with peak hold LED meters and very stout construction....a worthy replacement for my old pre-amp.

A word of caution, the points you gain from using pro amps is lost when an audiophile is around. The saying goes something like this "Pro amps are the dump trucks of the audio world. You can't expect a smooth ride out of a dump truck" I just tell them I am not an audiophile, I like home theater. Theaters use dump truck amps, dump truck wiring, dump truck speakers in IMAX THX theaters...and that is close enough for me.

If you are worried about the very industrial look of PA amps, the XTi series has a much thicker and cooler looking aluminum panel on the front--very important. You can also change the display to read whatever you want...mine boots up and says "Garage" which gives the EQ settings, crossover points and limiter settings their own file. It holds 25 or so different settings for other uses.

So give PA amps a shot, a bit over-engineered for home use but the feature sets and limiters will pay for themselves if you tend to imbibe and use your equipment at the same time.
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post #136 of 150 Old 01-26-2015, 02:44 PM
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Personal Experience with Crown and Emotiva

Sounds like someone is struggling with the same decisions as me.

I'll cut right to where I am now.

I have three XLS-1500's running my LCR's in a bi-amped configuration. I personally did not like the sound (or the lack of flexibility) of the built in crossovers. I am using a MiniDSP 4x10 and it is awesome!

I just purchased two Emotiva XPA-3's to take the place of the Crowns. I really expected to be blown away, I was not.

During critical listening, the Emotiva's may sound a bit more open and detailed, but it is difficult to actually put your finger on the "better" sound. I think it is mostly because I "want" them to sound better.

On the other hand, the Crowns blow the Emotiva's away for mid-bass attack.

I am leaning towards returning the XPA's and upgrading my 1500's to 2500's. Or possible just switching things around so that I can put a 2500 on the L&R mid-bass.
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post #137 of 150 Old 01-26-2015, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ekgajewski View Post
Sounds like someone is struggling with the same decisions as me.

I'll cut right to where I am now.

I have three XLS-1500's running my LCR's in a bi-amped configuration. I personally did not like the sound (or the lack of flexibility) of the built in crossovers. I am using a MiniDSP 4x10 and it is awesome!

I just purchased two Emotiva XPA-3's to take the place of the Crowns. I really expected to be blown away, I was not.

During critical listening, the Emotiva's may sound a bit more open and detailed, but it is difficult to actually put your finger on the "better" sound. I think it is mostly because I "want" them to sound better.

On the other hand, the Crowns blow the Emotiva's away for mid-bass attack.

I am leaning towards returning the XPA's and upgrading my 1500's to 2500's. Or possible just switching things around so that I can put a 2500 on the L&R mid-bass.
So the Emotiva somehow passes more information (detail)? I find that really hard to swallow. I think your mind is playing tricks on you. Try setting one speaker up with one amp, another speaker with the other, level match then flip back and forth in a mono source for some sort of head to head comparison?
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post #138 of 150 Old 01-26-2015, 03:19 PM
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I posted my reply because it appeared that someone was asking for opinions. When I saw both Emotiva and Crown XLS being discussed in the same thread, I felt I had to chime in.

I am not going to start to "debate" on the forum. If someone wants a bit more information on my experience with the two amplifier setups, it can be found here...

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/t...rown-xls-1500s

For me, the differences were clearly heard during what I would call "critical" listening sessions.
For me, this would be 2-channel playback of high definition tracks or even vinyl, where stereo imaging and depth of sound stage can be experienced.
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post #139 of 150 Old 01-26-2015, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekgajewski View Post
I posted my reply because it appeared that someone was asking for opinions. When I saw both Emotiva and Crown XLS being discussed in the same thread, I felt I had to chime in.

I am not going to start to "debate" on the forum. If someone wants a bit more information on my experience with the two amplifier setups, it can be found here...

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/t...rown-xls-1500s

For me, the differences were clearly heard during what I would call "critical" listening sessions.
For me, this would be 2-channel playback of high definition tracks or even vinyl, where stereo imaging and depth of sound stage can be experienced.
Mind explaining more about how you did your a/b comparo?
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post #140 of 150 Old 01-26-2015, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Mind explaining more about how you did your a/b comparo?
The purpose of my A/B testing was for me to make a decision on the amplification of my LCR's.

Let me start by saying, I have really enjoyed the sound of the Crowns since I purchased them. I purchased my first one as a "power upgrade" for a Yamaha RX-V1065 running a set of Klipsch RF-82's just over a year ago. I was immediately impressed with the sound quality and the effortless power it had. A few years before, I had the same set of speakers on an Adcom GFA-555, the Crowns sounded as good as I could remember the Adcom ever sounding. Since then, I have been slowly tweaking the room and system to see what else I could "improve."

I have been using some of the same demo tracks for over 20 years. I know what I listen for in each of them. When I sold high end audio, I could easily "lead the witness." I knew what to tell a customer to listen for on a Klipsch LaScala, versus a B&W 801, versus a Martin Logan Prodigy. All three are considered excellent sounding speakers, each with different "strengths" and "weaknesses" depending on who you ask. Yes, that was many years ago.

Anyway, I really "know" how my system sounds. I know what I was looking for when I started the "project." For me and my ears, it sounds pretty darn good for both 2-channel music and multi-channel movies/concerts.

However, I purchased the equipment and made the tweaks for MY ears, nobody else's.

When I listen to 2-channel audio, I feel that there is room for improvement in the very high frequencies. I purchased a tube pre-amp for my turntable in an effort to "smooth" things out. Although I like the sound, there still seems to be something I'm not totally happy with. Running my MiniDSP in 24/96 mode improves things even further, but I am always testing and tweaking. I even added a few pounds of "deadening" to the rear of my wave-guides to eliminate any ringing from the horns themselves. Once again, a small improvement, but always looking for something else. I'm sure some will blow off most of this stuff as being "in my head" as well, but I enjoy it.

I remember the first "digital" amplifiers I ever heard. In around 1993, they were a new line of car amps by Infinity. I remember AB and ABX testing them against some ADS and Fosgate MOSFET amplifiers in our 12 volt sound rooms. The digital amps had a different sound, but they were way more efficient. It took a couple years before any manufacturer considered their digital amps as their "flagship" models for full 20hz-20,000hz use. Before that, they were mainly used as sub amplifiers.

I do know that digital amps have come a LONG way, but perhaps these early experiences needed to be proved "obsolete" before I believe.

Now, back to the "A/B" test... It is nowhere near as scientific as some of the other ones I have been involved with over the years. In the late 90's Infinity has the coolest speaker ABX testing facility I have ever seen. Behind acoustically transparent screens, they were able to physically swap two sets speakers to exactly the same position in just a couple of seconds. This allowed for the only true ABX comparison I have ever personally seen or even read about.

However, I am not a speaker company, I'm not even in the business anymore. I just wanted to see if switching to the Emotiva amplifiers would give me a more enjoyable listening experience.

I set up my system so that I could switch amplifiers in about a minute. To get levels correct, I had to save another program in my MiniDSP, which was also swapped within the minute.

I also tested with and without the basic equalization I use to match the slight roll-off in my horns.

For a couple of hours, I really listened to my favorite 2-channel demo tracks from both High Definition FLAC files and vinyl. The two amplifier setups sound different. At higher volumes, the Crown's really shine in dynamic passages. Kick drums, snare drums, even a hard plucked stand up bass, all sound more realistic. I'm sure a lot of this is simply from the extra power of the Crowns.

However, in less dynamic music, where the difference is not clearly recognized at greater power on tap, it got a bit more difficult for me.

I really wanted the Emotiva's to sound better on things like violins, horn instruments and vocals. Things where sounding realistic does not just involve dynamics. I was hoping that I would hear a similar difference I heard between the digital and MOSFET car amps. I did not.

I have to stop every once and a while to clarify, this was for me, in my room, playing my tracks to my ears. Everybody who gets "into" audio has a sound in mind when they are putting together their system. Mine is VERY different than anyone I have seen or heard of. I am doing things that some would consider heresy. I am also doing things others would consider "snake oil."

Between the digital Crown's and the A/B Emotiva's, there is a difference. Neither setup is without its strengths and weaknesses. I don't think it is worth it for me to make the switch from the Crown's to the Emotiva XPA-3's knowing that I would be sacrificing dynamics.

That was my A/B test. It worked for me. I made my decision.
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post #141 of 150 Old 01-26-2015, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Hi guys, I thinking of using Crown XLS DriveCore amp to power up a DIY active bi-amp speaker. The Crown output terminals will be wired directly to the woofer and twitter, with the sound mode set to crossover mode for this bi-amp setup & a XO frequency set (based on my reading on the PDF user manual). In this mode, will both the gain/volume knobs work? (CH1 knob to control the loudness of the tweeter, CH2 knob to control the loudness of woofer)?
Yes, if you haven't already gotten the answer. I have used my three XLS-1500's like that.

I will say that the built in crossover is not nearly as good as you can get with a MiniDSP for about $100.
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I will not claim to be a super audiophile, when I was younger for a couple years I was sales manager of an high end audio store and had plenty of exposure to the finest products.

Over the years my system has morphed many times from high end audio (with a Rock and R&B focus) to now heavily leaning towards home theater. I am based around a Yamaha DSP2070 and all Klipsch speakers assembled over time. A B&O linear turntable still sees use. and CD source is a Denon top of the line unit from 15 years back. I recently added a used Oppo BDP-105 DVD Blueray, I really like. The 2070 ran initially though a Yamaha B6 (you have to have used these to understand how well the can deliver power as needed and amazing damping) to the mains LaScalas with upgrade to professional drivers to handle up to 200 watts continuous.

The rest of the speakers 4 KG 1.2s and a KV3 center were handled thru 2 Adcom 2335s. A SW-15 does Sub duty. Also in the mix was and Audio Control C-22 and DBX-4BX, adding a need for lots of punch at times. I was quite pleased at most times with the audio sound quality and the ability take the most dramatic home theater challenges and deliver.

About 5 years back age got the the B-6 and I replaced it with a used 200watt Adcom to match other amps(do not remember the number). Honestly it never lived up. Lower end was never as powerful and always seemed mushy, and the high end lost something... never put my finger on what.

A couple times a year the main amp., LaScalas, and SW-15 take a trip to the local roller skating rink and are used by a family band preforming there. Again, the Adcom never seemed as good as I would like. Then it did me the favor of having problems, the next band appearance was coming and I decided to upgrade and picked the XLS 1500... but, one dealer on line had the 2000 for only a few dollars more. Got it... ran it at home a little and though I could directly compare side by side, not only did it put the Adcom to shame, but the B-6 probably too. Then Band night arrived and off we went to give a different work out in a very large room.... WOW.... that is it... LaScalas have the ability to fill the large area and have before, but not with this clarity and punch...actually it change how I mixed the SW-15 in. So now over the next year the other Adcoms will be replaced by additional XLS amps, so my whole theater experience can get this delivery.
XLS amp + LaScala... any speaker hiss issue?
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post #143 of 150 Old 01-30-2015, 08:34 AM
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XLS amp + LaScala... any speaker hiss issue?
I don't have LaScala's, but my horns are pretty efficient. Actually, they are a bit more efficient than the LaScala's.

I do have an audible hiss. It is barely noticeable from 8'-10' away when my A/C fan is not running. If I get near the speaker, it is clearly audible.

I personally think you will be 100% satisfied with the XLS on your LaScala's. Just warning that if you are looking for dead silence in a test lab type environment, the Crown's are not the answer.
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XLS amp + LaScala... any speaker hiss issue?
No I have not had any issues at all. But if you wish me to try anything in particular, glad to oblige.
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I don't have LaScala's, but my horns are pretty efficient. Actually, they are a bit more efficient than the LaScala's.

I do have an audible hiss. It is barely noticeable from 8'-10' away when my A/C fan is not running. If I get near the speaker, it is clearly audible.

I personally think you will be 100% satisfied with the XLS on your LaScala's. Just warning that if you are looking for dead silence in a test lab type environment, the Crown's are not the answer.
My Crowns are dead silence and I have 6 of them. My system is fully balanced, so that might be the reason.
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post #146 of 150 Old Today, 12:41 AM
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I don't have LaScala's, but my horns are pretty efficient. Actually, they are a bit more efficient than the LaScala's.

I do have an audible hiss. It is barely noticeable from 8'-10' away when my A/C fan is not running. If I get near the speaker, it is clearly audible.

I personally think you will be 100% satisfied with the XLS on your LaScala's. Just warning that if you are looking for dead silence in a test lab type environment, the Crown's are not the answer.
Just to clarify, I read back through your posts and think by horns you mean Klipsch RF-82's. Just using the manufacturers specs, Efficiency is 98 db @ meter vs LaScalas 105 db @ 1 meter. So efficiency is clearly on the LaScala's side by basic numbers. I do not see any obvious manufacturer specs on the single Tractrix horn vs the more classic style dual horns in the LaScala. Also, the efficiency of a folded horn bass compared to direct firing woofers is almost always in favor of the horn.

Also, when I say no hiss, I will also modify that.... if I turn up to full volume and sit at standard distance in my living room and have everything else off...yes there is hiss. As I mention above I do have a PC as part of my system. It is behind other things, but the fan is low level audible... turn PC on, no longer hear hiss from speakers... secondly at this volume setting no one is going to turn on the music. Also mentioned above I have used the LaScalas for a band in a roller rink. Even with the the 200watt Adcom I had before volumes are attainable where people will say it is too loud there.

So you want to sit and listen at 375 watts in a living room... soon you will not be capable of hearing hiss again.

Back to my statement above... at any level of normal listening, or even rocking out.... in between songs there is no discernible hiss to my system. I will throw back in that I do have an old school 4BX that I still use most of the time, thus in quiet passages, the 4BX is reducing sound levels additionally. So maybe I have an unintentional hiss reducer.

If you like your LaScalas, you will like the XLS amps, though I have not used the lower power one, and there are reviews that note the lowest power XLS is a little noisier than the rest.
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Just to clarify, I read back through your posts and think by horns you mean Klipsch RF-82's. Just using the manufacturers specs, Efficiency is 98 db @ meter vs LaScalas 105 db @ 1 meter. So efficiency is clearly on the LaScala's side by basic numbers. I do not see any obvious manufacturer specs on the single Tractrix horn vs the more classic style dual horns in the LaScala. Also, the efficiency of a folded horn bass compared to direct firing woofers is almost always in favor of the horn.
My current mains utilize Radian 475PB compression drivers (111db 1w/1m) on QSC wave guide horns. Also keep in mind, there are no passive crossover components padding down the horns to match the LF drivers. The Radian's are connected directly to the XLS-1500's, which makes them expose any hiss the amps put out as much as possible.

I personally feel that the LaScala's will sound awesome on the XLS-2000. I just wanted to share my experience.

I recently purchased two Emotiva XPA-3's to see if they were "better" than the Crowns, I didn't feel they were. I returned the Emotiva's within the 30 day test period. One thing I did notice was that they were dead silent when connected directly to my pre-amp. Unfortunately, they exposed the little bit of noise my MiniDSP adds to the signal path.

I love the Crown XLS series of amplifiers. I don't think there is a better amp out there within 300% of their price.
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My Crowns are dead silence and I have 6 of them. My system is fully balanced, so that might be the reason.
My system is fully balanced as well. The small amount of noise the Crown's have is even present when there are no inputs connected to the amps and the amps are turned all the way down. It is also present when my fully balanced (Emotiva XMC-1) processor is connected directly to the amps and the volume and input levels are turned down.

The hiss is not noticeable with my Klipsch RF-82's, but is audible with my Radian 475 PB (111db 1w/1m) compression drivers.

If I get a chance, I'll put my Fluke true RMS meter on the outputs today and see if the hiss is measurable.

I am NOT knocking the XLS amps, I love them. I'm starting to feel like I should not have brought up the hiss, because my high frequency drivers are way more efficient than most of the speakers that will be used on these amps. As you (and others) have pointed out, there is no hiss present on most setups.
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My Crowns are dead silence and I have 6 of them. My system is fully balanced, so that might be the reason.
Like you I have six crown xls 1500 in my setup running the lower bed, 3 run my JTR LCR 4 ohm speakers bridged for 1550 rms watts per.
The other 3 are running in stereo dual side surround rows , back
surrounds all are 4 ohm Jtr's. Five amps run silent only with a hint of air no hiss, however the sixth amp has what sounds like a ground loop which is definitely coming from the amp. It's always been there
since I got it brand new I thought it was my electrical. The amp sounds fine works flawlessly otherwise, only recently did I discover it is the amp, I hope I can figure it out or I will send it in for repairs.
Getting back to the crowns sound, for me these amps sound as good as my lexicon and Bryston power amps. They cost several thousand more then the crown xls amps. I'm getting another few for my Atmos/ Auro setup which will replace the lexicon 4 channel amp running the top speakers. The crowns are really nice reliable amps that rise to the task with clear powerful sound for both home theater and stereo playback.



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post #150 of 150 Old Today, 12:47 PM
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Like you I have six crown xls 1500 in my setup running the lower bed, 3 run my JTR LCR 4 ohm speakers bridged for 1550 rms watts per.
The other 3 are running in stereo dual side surround rows , back
surrounds all are 4 ohm Jtr's. Five amps run silent only with a hint of air no hiss, however the sixth amp has what sounds like a ground loop which is definitely coming from the amp. It's always been there
since I got it brand new I thought it was my electrical. The amp sounds fine works flawlessly otherwise, only recently did I discover it is the amp, I hope I can figure it out or I will send it in for repairs.
Getting back to the crowns sound, for me these amps sound as good as my lexicon and Bryston power amps. They cost several thousand more then the crown xls amps. I'm getting another few for my Atmos/ Auro setup which will replace the lexicon 4 channel amp running the top speakers. The crowns are really nice reliable amps that rise to the task with clear powerful sound for both home theater and stereo playback.



PeterV
Switch out the power and signal cables and see if the problem follows. You can also chop of the ground pin on the plug and see if that fixes it. At lease you'll know what the problem is
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