What brand of AVR is most trouble-free? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 69 Old 03-01-2013, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I am noticing that there are plenty of posts from people who are having trouble with their new or relatively new AVR's. What brand or brands of AVR are generally most trouble free? I'm happy to hear both opinions and data. (For example, I'm not sure if Consumer Reports tracks AVR reliability like they do for autos and TV's but that would be a welcome source of information.)

-A4F

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post #2 of 69 Old 03-01-2013, 02:41 PM
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Based on the threads I see on these forums I'd say Yamaha is one of most trouble free and Onkyo the most problematic.

I have no statistical data though.

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post #3 of 69 Old 03-01-2013, 02:45 PM
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It's impossible to say without data to back it up, which there isnt any to my knowledge. Most manufacturer's seem to have software bugs right after release that are usually fixed via firmware.

In my personal experience Yamahas have been rock solid. Though i am sure there are several others that are solid too. I can only speak from my personal experience though.
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post #4 of 69 Old 03-01-2013, 03:45 PM
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I agree with others, Yamaha. This is pretty much true for their other products as well, motorcycles, powersports, rugged dependability.
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post #5 of 69 Old 03-01-2013, 04:03 PM
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x 4

 

I've had many Yamaha AVR's and never a major issue,

Top Notch quality and dependability in my experience.

 

My current is a 4 y/o RX-V3900 that's never even had a firmware update.

Most of my AVR's (probably 5 or 6 in the past 20 years, all Yamaha's) were retired in perfect working condition,

Only my needs for new features, more inputs/outputs kept growing that had them see an early retirement.
 


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post #6 of 69 Old 03-01-2013, 05:16 PM
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The most trouble-free brand AVR is the one you don't buy! No buy, no trouble! What exactly did you expect by asking sucha question? Care to expand on the issue? eek.gif
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post #7 of 69 Old 03-01-2013, 05:35 PM
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Yamaha has my vote.
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post #8 of 69 Old 03-01-2013, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

Yamaha has my vote.

Care to share with a bit more details on why you vote for Yamaha? Others may gain some knowledge here, eh? smile.gif
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post #9 of 69 Old 03-01-2013, 05:48 PM
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The one I owned twenty years ago and the next one I'll buy, of course.

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post #10 of 69 Old 03-01-2013, 06:16 PM
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Hello,
My mind also goes to Yamaha as well. However, Pioneer also is pretty solid. Pre D&M Denon would be high on my personal list as well and I had enough faith to recently purchase an AVR-4520CI. I also had very good luck with Onkyo.
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post #11 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

The most trouble-free brand AVR is the one you don't buy! No buy, no trouble! What exactly did you expect by asking sucha question? Care to expand on the issue? eek.gif

 

LOL!!  Yes, that is definitely true. They all seem to give trouble one way or another - modern AVRs are very complex computers built down to a price usually, so they will have a fair old chance to go wrong one way or another. In that sense, the simplest is likely to be more reliable I guess.  The old stereo receivers never went wrong did they? I had a Yamaha for 25 years that never gave me a moment's trouble. I have had my current two channel receiver for 20 years, again with no trouble. But they are very simple devices compared with a modern AVR.

 

FWIW, I have had 4 Onkyos and had no trouble at all with any of them, knock on wood.

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post #12 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

What exactly did you expect by asking such a question? Care to expand on the issue? eek.gif

Fair enough. I expected to gain an understanding of which brand or brands have a reputation for highest reliability (opinion) or in fact have data to support that they are tops in reliability. I am surprised I have to spell it out for you because I think it was evident in the anchor post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by All4fun View Post

I am noticing that there are plenty of posts from people who are having trouble with their new or relatively new AVR's. What brand or brands of AVR are generally most trouble free? I'm happy to hear both opinions and data. (For example, I'm not sure if Consumer Reports tracks AVR reliability like they do for autos and TV's but that would be a welcome source of information.)

-A4F

~~~

I don't know about you, but when I buy a product I have an expectation of reliable, trouble-free operation. So brand reputation for reliability matters as a key factor in the purchase decision.

~~~
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post #13 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All4fun View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

What exactly did you expect by asking such a question? Care to expand on the issue? eek.gif

Fair enough. I expected to gain an understanding of which brand or brands have a reputation for highest reliability (opinion) or in fact have data to support that they are tops in reliability. I am surprised I have to spell it out for you because I think it was evident in the anchor post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by All4fun View Post

I am noticing that there are plenty of posts from people who are having trouble with their new or relatively new AVR's. What brand or brands of AVR are generally most trouble free? I'm happy to hear both opinions and data. (For example, I'm not sure if Consumer Reports tracks AVR reliability like they do for autos and TV's but that would be a welcome source of information.)

-A4F

~~~

I don't know about you, but when I buy a product I have an expectation of reliable, trouble-free operation. So brand reputation for reliability matters as a key factor in the purchase decision.

~~~

 

I think the only answer you are likely to get is like the one I gave you above. If you read the threads for the various makes and models, you'll see they all have their issues and problems. I think what really matters is how the manufacturer supports you when things go wrong - that is probably more relevant than asking if the things go wrong.

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post #14 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I think the only answer you are likely to get is like the one I gave you above. If you read the threads for the various makes and models, you'll see they all have their issues and problems. I think what really matters is how the manufacturer supports you when things go wrong - that is probably more relevant than asking if the things go wrong.

+1.

On a second note, further to your good advise Keith, what I'd add to the OP is to always ensure proper ventillation. That will surely expand the life span of any brand purchased. Looking up the first pages of the user's manuals usually gives a description on how much clearance is needed which is worth to follow. Actually, heat build up is public enemy #1 for Solid State devices, but proper air-flow will ensure trouble-free operation for an extended period of time, especially for the hear-generators like the video card and the power amp stages.

And never forget about Murphy! smile.gif
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post #15 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I think the only answer you are likely to get is like the one I gave you above. If you read the threads for the various makes and models, you'll see they all have their issues and problems. I think what really matters is how the manufacturer supports you when things go wrong - that is probably more relevant than asking if the things go wrong.

+1.

On a second note, further to your good advise Keith, what I'd add to the OP is to always ensure proper ventillation. That will surely expand the life span of any brand purchased. Looking up the first pages of the user's manuals usually gives a description on how much clearance is needed which is worth to follow. Actually, heat build up is public enemy #1 for Solid State devices, but proper air-flow will ensure trouble-free operation for an extended period of time, especially for the hear-generators like the video card and the power amp stages.

And never forget about Murphy! smile.gif

 

Yes - good points Feri. I have run two 4 inch computer fans on top of my Onkyo AVR and more recently my Onkyo 5509 prepro to provide additional cooling, Excessive heat, as you say, is the enemy of electronics and the fans ensure my units do not get hotter than I would like them to. 

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post #16 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I think the only answer you are likely to get is like the one I gave you above. If you read the threads for the various makes and models, you'll see they all have their issues and problems. I think what really matters is how the manufacturer supports you when things go wrong - that is probably more relevant than asking if the things go wrong.

Well, yes and no. I think most people would opt for "no need for service and support because the thing is a rock of reliability" vs. "the thing broke, but service and support was outstanding". In my business, the focus is rock solid reliability to minimize the need for customer support. Everybody wins: Customer and company.

Now, you raise a good point: What if something does go wrong? How will this brand support me if that happens? I would argue that is a different topic, albeit an important consideration. The data my company has shows that how a customer is supported when something goes wrong is a huge factor in driving brand loyalty. (Brand loyalty is generally defined to be the probability that the customer will buy the same brand in the future.)

What I am saying, and I think it is common sense, is that BOTH reliability AND excellent customer support matter in the purchase decision.

-A4F

~~~
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post #17 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

+1.

On a second note, further to your good advise Keith, what I'd add to the OP is to always ensure proper ventillation. That will surely expand the life span of any brand purchased. Looking up the first pages of the user's manuals usually gives a description on how much clearance is needed which is worth to follow. Actually, heat build up is public enemy #1 for Solid State devices, but proper air-flow will ensure trouble-free operation for an extended period of time, especially for the hear-generators like the video card and the power amp stages.

And never forget about Murphy! smile.gif

Excellent, helpful post. On target. Thank you.

~~~
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post #18 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 11:47 AM
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The most reliable AVR brand is Yamaha by a big margin...
However it is pertinent to note that one of the primary reasons for failure is inadequate ventilation..
Even though the Operation Manuals mention to provide @ least 4-5" of free-air clearance for the L/R sides and top cover...
Very frequently this is totally ignored.. rolleyes.gif

Just my $0.02.. wink.gif
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post #19 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All4fun View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I think the only answer you are likely to get is like the one I gave you above. If you read the threads for the various makes and models, you'll see they all have their issues and problems. I think what really matters is how the manufacturer supports you when things go wrong - that is probably more relevant than asking if the things go wrong.

Well, yes and no. I think most people would opt for "no need for service and support because the thing is a rock of reliability" vs. "the thing broke, but service and support was outstanding". In my business, the focus is rock solid reliability to minimize the need for customer support. Everybody wins: Customer and company.

Now, you raise a good point: What if something does go wrong? How will this brand support me if that happens? I would argue that is a different topic, albeit an important consideration. The data my company has shows that how a customer is supported when something goes wrong is a huge factor in driving brand loyalty. (Brand loyalty is generally defined to be the probability that the customer will buy the same brand in the future.)

What I am saying, and I think it is common sense, is that BOTH reliability AND excellent customer support matter in the purchase decision.

-A4F

~~~

 

Can't disagree with you there - but when you find the make that has "no need for service and support because the thing is a rock of reliability", be sure to let me know!!  ;)

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post #20 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 11:50 AM
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The most reliable AVR brand is Yamaha by a big margin...
 

 

I'd love to see the supporting evidence for that...

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post #21 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I'd love to see the supporting evidence for that...

OK...
Do the following:
1. Type www.amazon.com
2. Type Yamaha receiver
3. Select a model and go to reviews, while noting the # of stars..
4. Type Onkyo receiver
5. Select a model and go to the reviews, while noting the # of stars..
6. Type Harman Kardon receiver
7. Select a model and go to reviews, while noting the # of stars..
8. Type Denon receiver
9. Select a model and go to reviews, while noting the # of stars..

By now you will see a distinctive trend.. Next question.. rolleyes.gif

Just my $0.02... wink.gif
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post #22 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I'd love to see the supporting evidence for that...

OK...
Do the following:
1. Type www.amazon.com
2. Type Yamaha receiver
3. Select a model and go to reviews, while noting the # of stars..
4. Type Onkyo receiver
5. Select a model and go to the reviews, while noting the # of stars..
6. Type Harman Kardon receiver
7. Select a model and go to reviews, while noting the # of stars..
8. Type Denon receiver
9. Select a model and go to reviews, while noting the # of stars..

By now you will see a distinctive trend.. Next question.. rolleyes.gif

Just my $0.02... wink.gif

 

Do you really believe those anecdotes class as evidence?  What I want to see is some objective evidence to support your statement. An example of objective evidence would be number of units sold over a given period vs percentage of warranty claims over a given period. Then we could compare the statistics and see which units required repairs most, as a percentage of sales. Anecdotes like yours mean nothing at all unfortunately.

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post #23 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
An example of objective evidence would be number of units sold over a given period vs percentage of warranty claims over a given period. Then we could compare the statistics and see which units required repairs most, as a percentage of sales.

I don't think you're gonna find that evidence. Good luck trying.

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post #24 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 01:55 PM
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I own or have owned Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo/Integra and have had no problems with any yet. However, following threads one picks up that Yamaha is likely the reliability champ. I wish they would release a prepro to compete with the Marantz 8801, Integra 80.3 / Onkyo 5509 as it would catch my interest. Also, on the topic of heat, one should be able to turn off video processing as that seems to generate the most heat even with AVRs unless playing at high levels. My 80.3 let's you bypass video processing but not turn it off.

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post #25 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Quote:
An example of objective evidence would be number of units sold over a given period vs percentage of warranty claims over a given period. Then we could compare the statistics and see which units required repairs most, as a percentage of sales.

I don't think you're gonna find that evidence. Good luck trying.

 

Exactly. So the question us pointless. All that is going to be offered is anecdotal 'evidence' which means nothing, as we have already seen. One poster says "It's Yamaha, without doubt". Then I could say, with equal validity in the absence of evidence, "It's Denon, without doubt". Reality is, nobody knows. Which makes Feri's answer the only one that has a degree of certainty: it's the one you don't buy.

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post #26 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I own or have owned Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo/Integra and have had no problems with any yet. However, following threads one picks up that Yamaha is likely the reliability champ. I wish they would release a prepro to compete with the Marantz 8801, Integra 80.3 / Onkyo 5509 as it would catch my interest. Also, on the topic of heat, one should be able to turn off video processing as that seems to generate the most heat even with AVRs unless playing at high levels. My 80.3 let's you bypass video processing but not turn it off.

 

Yamaha sales are minuscule though compared with Denon and Onkyo, so again, the anecdotal 'evidence' means very little.

 

Agreed about being able to turn VP off totally.

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post #27 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 02:23 PM
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The problem with following these threads is; most people come on and complain when they have issues. The ones who have a trouble free experience are enjoying their AVR. smile.gif

Now you may say that Onkyo has more complaints than Yamaha; but without knowing how many of each were sold, there is no way to reasonably deduct any useful information one way or another.

I have owned Sony (1), Denon (3+), Pioneer (2), and Onkyo (5+); and fortunately each of them have been problem free.

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post #28 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 03:16 PM
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The problem with following these threads is; most people come on and complain when they have issues. The ones who have a trouble free experience are enjoying their AVR. smile.gif

Now you may say that Onkyo has more complaints than Yamaha; but without knowing how many of each were sold, there is no way to reasonably deduct any useful information one way or another.

I have owned Sony (1), Denon (3+), Pioneer (2), and Onkyo (5+); and fortunately each of them have been problem free.

You asked how many more units Onkyo has sold than Yamaha, relating to reliability issues. One could also ask how many recalls has Onkyo issued as opposed to Yamaha, or most other brands for that matter. A manufacturer does not issue a recall unless there is a large percentage of units affected.
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post #29 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Let me offer a counterpoint to some of the thinking in this thread:

Honda sells a boat load of cars in the US. So, they very well may have more reliability complaints in total than a lower volume brand... pick one of your choice. I'll offer Mazda. Mazda is a player, but they don't sell in nearly the volume as Honda. And yet, does anyone struggle to decide which brand designs and builds more reliable vehicles overall? Most people would pick Honda as the more reliable brand.

So, I think anecdotal experience and judgment can be applied here to help discriminate between brands. (although I'm still hoping some entity like Consumer Reports has applicable data) All in all, I think the opinions are worth listening to, and seeing what kind of consensus or majority opinion emerges.

~~~
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post #30 of 69 Old 03-02-2013, 03:30 PM
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My Yamaha RXV 1300 never had any trouble for 10years now. I installed quiet exhaust fans to each of my AVR, pre-amp and amp to extend life span. Heat is like a disease to all AV equipment IMO.
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