No TV audio when standby pass through is enabled for CBL/SAT - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 03-02-2013, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Setting up a AVR-1913. I purchased it refurb'd from a authorized Denon dealer and I'm having an issue getting audio to pass through to my Panasonic VT50 speakers. Using a Dish Hopper as the source device. Just for testing, I set the pass through device to be my Blu Ray player and when I power off the AVR I get both picture and sound from the TV speakers. When I set the pass through device to be my CBL/SAT I get picture but no audio. So in my mind, this issue is not in the cable spec...(both devices use identical HDMI cables).

I did a firmware reset on the AVR, no luck..it's running the latest firmware. All I can think of is that there must be some signaling issue between the AVR and the Hopper. Even with the power on the AVR I get no sound from the TV speakers... About they only left I haven't done is reboot the Hopper..I did change the audio settings from PCM to Dolby surround on the Hopper,

I would love to hear anyone's ideas of what the issue might be...If I can't get pass through standby for TV I will have to try to return the unit...which is a shame, cuz otherwise it works just fine. There is no other means to to get audio to the TV from the CBL box..so I have to rely on the HDMI connection to provide it.

thanks in advance to anyone who has some suggestions..
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post #2 of 12 Old 03-03-2013, 02:19 AM
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Try setting the HDMI-CEC feature (VierraLink) on the TV to OFF.

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post #3 of 12 Old 03-03-2013, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I changed the audio settings on the Hopper to to disable volume leveling and changed the mode from RF to Line. Not really sure what that does...but standby pass through audio started working as soon as I did that. Hope this post will save someone else from the same grief.

Now if only I can keep my kid from doing the Airplay thing from her Ipad upstairs while I'm watching a movie below.

David
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post #4 of 12 Old 03-03-2013, 08:54 AM
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Based on issues other Hopper owners are having (in general) this may only be a temp fix, although thanks for reporting back with the solution. smile.gif

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post #5 of 12 Old 03-04-2013, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually a few hours later the same symptom appeared, after I changed the label/name of an input. And as mysteriously it came back, when I checked back a few hours later, audio was once again working via standby pass through. So, based on my experience and your comment I would assume the AVR is fine and that the Hopper is in need of a code patch. I figured if this really becomes a constant problem I'll have to get a HDMI splitter and do my own pass through from the DVR to another input on the TV.
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post #6 of 12 Old 03-04-2013, 06:50 PM
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You don't need a splitter as the best way to work around these common HDMI handshake issues with cable/sat boxes is to connect the HDMI cable directly to the TV with optical from the box to the AVR with no loss in audio quality as the best a cable box can do is only DD 5.1.

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post #7 of 12 Old 03-05-2013, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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That makes perfect sense. Basically treat it like a legacy connection. .Thank you!

-David
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post #8 of 12 Old 03-06-2013, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vpnguy View Post

Setting up a AVR-1913. I purchased it refurb'd from a authorized Denon dealer and I'm having an issue getting audio to pass through to my Panasonic VT50 speakers. Using a Dish Hopper as the source device. Just for testing, I set the pass through device to be my Blu Ray player and when I power off the AVR I get both picture and sound from the TV speakers. When I set the pass through device to be my CBL/SAT I get picture but no audio. So in my mind, this issue is not in the cable spec...(both devices use identical HDMI cables).

I did a firmware reset on the AVR, no luck..it's running the latest firmware. All I can think of is that there must be some signaling issue between the AVR and the Hopper. Even with the power on the AVR I get no sound from the TV speakers... About they only left I haven't done is reboot the Hopper..I did change the audio settings from PCM to Dolby surround on the Hopper,

I would love to hear anyone's ideas of what the issue might be...If I can't get pass through standby for TV I will have to try to return the unit...which is a shame, cuz otherwise it works just fine. There is no other means to to get audio to the TV from the CBL box..so I have to rely on the HDMI connection to provide it.

thanks in advance to anyone who has some suggestions..

It took me a while to accept the fact that almost all STBs are not HDMI compatible devices, as this is the issue you encountered. I did too when I connected the STB (Bell HD6131) HDMI Out to the AVR CBL/SAT HDMI In. This way I can watch SAT TV with TV audio without turning On the AVR -AVR seems passing through STB audio & video signal while in Standby. So far so good, until I tried to listen to TV Audio in Dolby surrond, I can't when switching AVR On.

Now that I (think) I understand the nature of the problem, connecting a non-HDMI STB to the AVR/TV set-up which is HDMI compatible, the OM suggests the solution:

(i) connect STB audio to AVR audio the non-HDMI way, using the best audio quality with either digital coax or optical;
(ii) connect STB video out to AVR video in using the best video technology, i.e. component vs composite; and
(iii) assign the CBL/SAT input to have the corresponding/relevant hookup, e.g. OPT1 and COMP1 on the AVR.

Now, the video connection is the most confusing part when it comes to HDMI, non-HDMI solution, as a common recommendation from JDS:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie 
...the best way to work around these common HDMI handshake issues with cable/sat boxes is to connect the HDMI cable directly to the TV with optical from the box to the AVR with no loss in audio quality as the best a cable box can do is only DD 5.1.".

Since the STB is not a even HDMI compatible device, how can there be a "common HDMI handshake issue"?

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate all the valuable advices contributed by JDS (thumbs up!), still my inquiring mind does not stop there: what are the added values of the workaround, if any, using up one HDMI TV connection and channelling the optical audio back to the AVR? Does it cause any other side effect one may not be aware of, as opposed to connecting the legacy way described in the OM (OPT1 and COMP1)?

Thanks!
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post #9 of 12 Old 03-06-2013, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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For me, the added value of the workaround is I don't get a yell from wife about why the sound isn't working from the TV. smile.gif
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post #10 of 12 Old 03-06-2013, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dta721 View Post

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate all the valuable advices contributed by JDS (thumbs up!), still my inquiring mind does not stop there: what are the added values of the workaround, if any, using up one HDMI TV connection and channelling the optical audio back to the AVR? Does it cause any other side effect one may not be aware of, as opposed to connecting the legacy way described in the OM (OPT1 and COMP1)?
I am not clear on what you mean when you ask about "channelling the optical audio back to the TV". If that means using an optical connection from the TV to the AVR rather than from the set top box to the AVR, the answer is that you will likely be limited to stereo. Most TVs do no pass DD 5.1 from external devices attached using HDMI.

If you are just asking whether HDMI or component video is better, you simply have to try them both and see which you prefer. There's no downside to using HDMI as long as the TV and the set top box play well with each other. The component video option is going away, though. Newer TVs don't offer HD component video inputs and new devices such as BD players no longer output anything better than 480p over component connections. The changes are due to copyright protection.
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post #11 of 12 Old 03-06-2013, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

I am not clear on what you mean when you ask about "channelling the optical audio back to the AVR". If that means using an optical connection from the TV to the AVR rather than from the set top box to the AVR, the answer is that you will likely be limited to stereo. Most TVs do no pass DD 5.1 from external devices attached using HDMI.

Note my correction when you quoted me "AVR", it is my question to JDS/others on the forum about the benefit, which you questioned its value (stereo only, not DD5.1). That said, I wonder if you can still configure the decoder to play Dolby Prologic 5.1 if available in newer AVR? It's been awhile I have not read this subject, back then the coding was simpler, Prologic can decode a 2-channel stereo into 5.1 easily.
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Originally Posted by BIslander 
...If you are just asking whether HDMI or component video is better, you simply have to try them both and see which you prefer. There's no downside to using HDMI as long as the TV and the set top box play well with each other. The component video option is going away, though. Newer TVs don't offer HD component video inputs and new devices such as BD players no longer output anything better than 480p over component connections. The changes are due to copyright protection.

I think you mixed up BD and STB as the source. All BDs now are HDMI compatible such that there are no Component video outputs, whereas STB like the one I have both HDMI and Component video out, even a Composite video if I remember correctly. However, my STB is definitely not HDMI compatible -it was never recognized by the Samsung TV anynet+, and it is not likely I can get a firmware update to make use of its HDMI output.

@vpnguy: That's more than a valid reason to me, keeping the wife happy LOL!

Edits: Come to think of it, when use Component video input of the AVR, and if this AVR can upconvert SD to HD out, then there is a real benefit going this way.
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post #12 of 12 Old 03-06-2013, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dta721 View Post

Note my correction when you quoted me "AVR", it is my question to JDS/others on the forum about the benefit, which you questioned its value (stereo only, not DD5.1). That said, I wonder if you can still configure the decoder to play Dolby Prologic 5.1 if available in newer AVR? It's been awhile I have not read this subject, back then the coding was simpler, Prologic can decode a 2-channel stereo into 5.1 easily.
Yes, oops, back to the AVR, as back to the TV would not make any sense. And, yes, you can still apply a DSP such as PLII or DTS Neo:6 in most receivers to expand stereo to 5.1. But, of course, it would almost always be better to send DD 5.1 when a station is broadcasting a surround signal.
Quote:
I think you mixed up BD and STB as the source. All BDs now are HDMI compatible such that there are no Component video outputs, whereas STB like the one I have both HDMI and Component video out, even a Composite video if I remember correctly. However, my STB is definitely not HDMI compatible -it was never recognized by the Samsung TV anynet+, and it is not likely I can get a firmware update to make use of its HDMI output.
No mix up, although perhaps my post was not a clear as it should have been. Your set top box is HDMI compatible in terms of negotiating and sending video and audio. That doesn't mean it will play nicely with all manners of CEC such as Samsung Anynet+, Sony Bravia Link, or Panasonic Viera Link. Beyond that, I was merely pointing out that the transmission of HD video over component is being supported less and less. BD players have already dropped such support. Even though many set top boxes will send HD video over component, some newer TVs no longer have component video inputs, in which case you would have to use HDMI no matter what outputs are available on the box. Over time, component outputs will likely be dropped from STBs as well.
Quote:
Edits: Come to think of it, when use Component video input of the AVR, and if this AVR can upconvert SD to HD out, then there is a real benefit going this way.
Only if the upscaler in the receiver is better than the ones in the source or the display, which is generally not the case. A 1080p display has to upconvert any non-1080p sources in order to show them. So, upconverting in the AVR may not help and could actually hurt.
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