Emotiva UMC-200 with a UPA-500 vs. my old Sony STR-DH800 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 03-09-2013, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Guys... newbie questions here so bear with me.

As the title says how would an Emotiva UMC-200 with a UPA-500 amp sound vs. my old Sony STR-DH800??? I'm more than sure it would sound WAY better but some honest opinions would be nice. I currently have a Klipsch RB-62 II Speaker system with a Klipsch RW-10 Sub.

Here's another question... My current Sony receiver says it's 100 watts the Emotiva Amp is 80 W. Am I losing too much there or am I worrying about nothing? I'm sure there is something misleading about these numbers from Sony. I don't have a large room if you are wondering.

Just curious what you guys have to say... THANKS!

-Gregg
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post #2 of 29 Old 03-10-2013, 08:47 AM
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Yes, it will be a huge improvement over your Sony. The Emotiva amp will leave the Sony in the dust as the Emotiva is rated at 80 wpc ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN. Thats a big difference between the way Sony rates its output into two Channels at 100w + 100w. Typical AVR marketing BS. I am not even sure what this means - Does this mean 100 watts into 2 channels SIMULTANEOUSLY or does this mean 100 watts into any one channel only when in 2 channel mode? I tend to think the latter.

Either way the Emotiva will give an honest 80 wpc into 5 channels SIMULTANEOUSLY. So your not losing by ditching the Sony - your actually gaining a lot of real amp power.
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post #3 of 29 Old 03-10-2013, 09:08 AM
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I would get a Harman-Kardon AVR3650 receiver and be done with it. $700.

That will have plenty of power and sound so much better than your Sony that it will literally be music to your ears.

The Harman-Kardon 3650 receiver is a superior design with a robust power supply that can maintain the drive current needed to drive 5 (or 7) speakers without significant distortion.

By comparison, your Sony is a badly underpowered wimp with an inadequate power supply and inflated ratings.
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post #4 of 29 Old 03-10-2013, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Paraneer! I had a feeling there was some marketing goofiness going on with the Sony 100 watts. I'm verrryy excited about the Emotiva... Just have to save my pennies now! I hate bad mouthing my Sony amp for the amount I paid, it's done everything I could ask of it. It's just now with the better Klipsch speakers I know I could get so much more out of them. I was looking Marantz but they are verrryy pricey. Thanks again!
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post #5 of 29 Old 03-10-2013, 10:18 AM
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You're welcome Hawkboy. Glad I could assist and enjoy the Emotiva separates when you get them. They make very good perforrming equipment for the money.
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post #6 of 29 Old 03-10-2013, 03:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkboy View Post

Hi Guys... newbie questions here so bear with me.

As the title says how would an Emotiva UMC-200 with a UPA-500 amp sound vs. my old Sony STR-DH800??? I'm more than sure it would sound WAY better but some honest opinions would be nice. I currently have a Klipsch RB-62 II Speaker system with a Klipsch RW-10 Sub.

Here's another question... My current Sony receiver says it's 100 watts the Emotiva Amp is 80 W. Am I losing too much there or am I worrying about nothing? I'm sure there is something misleading about these numbers from Sony. I don't have a large room if you are wondering.

Just curious what you guys have to say... THANKS!

-Gregg

big upgrade.. i just got my 1st amp an xpa 3 from emotiva.. using the pre outs on my denon wow what an improvement in the sound quality...

all i can say is do but consider the xpa 5 for the extra power in the future for a bit more money... why go 80 when 200 will cover many more speakers in the market these days..

cheers..
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post #7 of 29 Old 03-11-2013, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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While that would be awesome (the XPA-5) it's just way out of my price range and probably overkill for my needs. But I like the IDEA of it! smile.gif
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post #8 of 29 Old 03-11-2013, 11:17 AM
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I have had the upa-500 and it is a killer amp for the money. I would say that the Emotiva combo would best anything in its price range for SQ IF it has all the features you need or want.
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post #9 of 29 Old 03-11-2013, 04:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkboy View Post

While that would be awesome (the XPA-5) it's just way out of my price range and probably overkill for my needs. But I like the IDEA of it! smile.gif

only about 400 more ...

just remember from what i hear this amp can last 20 yrs eh..

biggrin.gif

i love my xpa 3 amp what a difference in SQ noticed it right away..

im thinking about buying the new mono blocks the xpa 1 L and that A class power sonic nirvana...

for the stereo play..

so much more to buy its and expensive hobby this audio addiction LOL

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #10 of 29 Old 03-11-2013, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkboy View Post

While that would be awesome (the XPA-5) it's just way out of my price range and probably overkill for my needs. But I like the IDEA of it! smile.gif

I was in the same position a couple of months ago. I went with the UPA-500 and was not disappointed. There is plenty of power for most environments. My room is 18x25 with 10' ceilings and open to both the kitchen and the foyer. The UPA plays loud enough without distorting to either drive you out of the house, or damage your ears.

As far as the UMC-200, you might get more features for your dollar by using a receiver with pre-outs as your processor. In my case, I needed two HDMI outputs.

OneCall has Yamaha Adventage (RX-A800) factory refurbs with a 2 year warranty at a good price. I went with the Yamaha rather than the UMC because of the features (HDMI outputs, cinema dsp modes, etc). Accessories4Less also has good deals.

David
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post #11 of 29 Old 03-11-2013, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Good to Know Crussader! As far as i can tell right now the UMC-200 is all I really need because between my Oppo, X-Box, and HTPC all my networking needs are taken care of and I don't have any legacy video nor do I ever use DSP modes. So more and more thanks to you guys the UMC-200 is hitting the price point/performance sweet spot for me. I have been considering breaking the bank and getting a Marantz AVR like the SR5007, SR6007, or even saving up longer for the SR7007. But sadly, money is a factor so the Emotiva has just shot out as the lead horse in my quest for better audio!

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Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

only about 400 more ...

just remember from what i hear this amp can last 20 yrs eh..

biggrin.gif

Ohhh Deltadube I wish I could say "ONLY About 400 more..." smile.gif
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post #12 of 29 Old 03-11-2013, 08:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hawkboy View Post

Good to Know Crussader! As far as i can tell right now the UMC-200 is all I really need because between my Oppo, X-Box, and HTPC all my networking needs are taken care of and I don't have any legacy video nor do I ever use DSP modes. So more and more thanks to you guys the UMC-200 is hitting the price point/performance sweet spot for me. I have been considering breaking the bank and getting a Marantz AVR like the SR5007, SR6007, or even saving up longer for the SR7007. But sadly, money is a factor so the Emotiva has just shot out as the lead horse in my quest for better audio!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

only about 400 more ...

just remember from what i hear this amp can last 20 yrs eh..

biggrin.gif

Ohhh Deltadube I wish I could say "ONLY About 400 more..." smile.gif

the sr 7007 thats like 1999 in Canada.. 125 wpc.. the 80 amps beat it i bet!... i would save up for the the new pre amp coming down the pipe at emotiva 1499... and the xpa 5 899 but get them at the
4th of july sale!
200 wpc is awesome...

cheers
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post #13 of 29 Old 03-12-2013, 07:35 AM
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I replaced a Marantz SR5006 with an Emo UMC-200/XPA-5 combo. Very impressed with it. The UMC doesn't have any video processing, but I'd use the Oppo for that anyways. The UPA-500 should work well for you since your speakers are pretty damn sensitive. If you want a more powerful amp, look into a used UPA-5. The warranties are transferable. Either way, it'll be a huge upgrade from that Sony.

The new XMC-1 has been "coming soon" for about 4 years now. Even if it is released soon, it'll take an eon to get one. Emo has to fill those who signed up for the wait list first, and that list is LONG.

Edit:

Check the used section on Emotiva's site. There's a few amps at good prices now, and they come up quite often.
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post #14 of 29 Old 03-12-2013, 08:31 AM
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I believe, the XMC-1 is no longer a real item but just a placeholder for something new to come.
After this long waiting period the original specs / design for the XMC-1 is already outdated and it wouldn't make any sense to keep this "zombie" alive as stated.
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post #15 of 29 Old 03-12-2013, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gostillerz View Post

I replaced a Marantz SR5006 with an Emo UMC-200/XPA-5 combo. Very impressed with it. The UMC doesn't have any video processing, but I'd use the Oppo for that anyways. The UPA-500 should work well for you since your speakers are pretty damn sensitive.

Edit:

Check the used section on Emotiva's site. There's a few amps at good prices now, and they come up quite often.

Thanks for the tip about the used section at Emotiva's website gostillerz!!! I will check it out... maybe I can find me a Cherry Klipsch RC-62 II center channel while I'm at it! Those things are hard to find now... the black RC-62 II's are all over the place however.
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post #16 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 12:44 PM
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The HK or the Emotiva are the only choices I see so far in this thread. Both would be great for sound quality but the Emo has an edge for power. Don't waste your time on the mediocre unless run of the mill sound is no issue.
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post #17 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Elmo C, I always want the best sound for what I can afford! wink.gif

Hey guys here is a link that discusses what we are talking about... enjoy! (I hope we can post links... if not I apologize.)
The author uses an Emotiva UMC-200 with a UPA-500!
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57573961-47/do-separate-components-sound-better-than-av-receivers-part-2/
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post #18 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Elmo C View Post

Don't waste your time on the mediocre unless run of the mill sound is no issue.

What would be mediocre in your opinion? Also what is "run of the mill sound"?

Bill

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post #19 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkboy View Post

Hey guys here is a link that discusses what we are talking about... enjoy! (I hope we can post links... if not I apologize.)
The author uses an Emotiva UMC-200 with a UPA-500!
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57573961-47/do-separate-components-sound-better-than-av-receivers-part-2/

I have seen that "comparison" before. To me it is seriously flawed as the reviewer is using a $399 AVR and comparing it to the $1100 Emotiva separates. Not what I would call a level playing field wink.gif. I'm not sure why a $1100 AVR wasn't used to make it an actual "comparison" wink.gif.

Bill

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post #20 of 29 Old 03-15-2013, 05:49 AM
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I think the main point he was making was about power ratings - that the Denon is rated higher at 90 wpc yet it was still smoked by the Emotiva at 80 wpc. Because of the Emotivas high current design and ability to distribute power to all frequencies and likely impedence loads for sustained periods of time without wimping out.

But you're right - he should have used an even more expensive AVR at the same price or even higher price than the Emotiva separates and the AVR would still get smoked in actual power output. This would have been even more dramatic. Either way, it illustrates the authors point. The OP is looking at a very nice package indeed.
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post #21 of 29 Old 03-15-2013, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

I think the main point he was making was about power ratings - that the Denon is rated higher at 90 wpc yet it was still smoked by the Emotiva at 80 wpc. Because of the Emotivas high current design and ability to distribute power to all frequencies and likely impedence loads for sustained periods of time without wimping out.

But you're right - he should have used an even more expensive AVR at the same price or even higher price than the Emotiva separates and the AVR would still get smoked in actual power output. This would have been even more dramatic. Either way, it illustrates the authors point. The OP is looking at a very nice package indeed.

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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I have seen that "comparison" before. To me it is seriously flawed as the reviewer is using a $399 AVR and comparing it to the $1100 Emotiva separates. Not what I would call a level playing field wink.gif. I'm not sure why a $1100 AVR wasn't used to make it an actual "comparison" wink.gif.

Bill

If Emotiva beat a $5000 competitor someone would still shout "foul".
The UPA amp cost the same as the Denon that was used. Many claim that an AVR used as a pre-pro is as good as separates. Seems as if the playing field was pretty level.

+1 for Paraneer.
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post #22 of 29 Old 03-15-2013, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Quote:
If Emotiva beat a $5000 competitor someone would still shout "foul".

I certainly wouldn't cry foul if the $1100 Emotiva beat $5000 separates. It would spark my interest in hearing them in my own system. I would think it would be an interesting comparison. Now if the $5000 separates beat the $1100 Emotiva separates would that be a fair comparison? Say the Marantz 8801/Outlaw 7500 against the UMC-200/UPA-500. I wonder if those partial to Emotiva would then be claiming foul and saying "thats not a fair comparison" wink.gif.

Quote:
The UPA amp cost the same as the Denon that was used.

Your point is?

Quote:
Many claim that an AVR used as a pre-pro is as good as separates.

I certainly feel that an AVR with preouts makes a fine prepro. I'm using one and it is working quite well.

Quote:
Seems as if the playing field was pretty level.

How so? What might made the cnet comparison real interesting would have been if the reviewer used an AVR with preouts. Then do a comparison between the AVR with the UPA-500 and the UMC-200/UPA-500. That would have been more of a level playing field as far as seeing which processor sounded better. I think it is common knowledge that an external amp will offer more actual power than most AVRs amp sections. I still think there was very little from the reviewer on how he compared the 1912 to the UMC-200/UPA-500. No mention of level matching or any other facts as to how the comparison was done. To me the article was nothing better than a fellow AVS member making the same comparison wink.gif. Just because it came from cnet added no further credibility as to the results of the comparison.

Bill

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post #23 of 29 Old 03-15-2013, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

...Say the Marantz 8801/Outlaw 7500 against the UMC-200/UPA-500. I wonder if those partial to Emotiva would then be claiming foul and saying "thats not a fair comparison"...

I am running Yamaha A800/UPA-500 and would love to see that comparison.

If the $5000 setup beats the $1100 as one might expect there is still value in the information. How much better is the higher end system? Twice as good? Ten times as good? What do you get for the additional $3900 and is it worth the difference to you?
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post #24 of 29 Old 03-15-2013, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Your point is?

I don't want to get into an argument, as I'm fairly new here, but Paraneer's point was pretty clear.
Quote:
I think the main point he was making was about power ratings - that the Denon is rated higher at 90 wpc yet it was still smoked by the Emotiva at 80 wpc.

Sure he should have used a similar priced model, but he wanted something with the same advertised power. So in that particular regard it was an apt comparison, matched price point or no.
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post #25 of 29 Old 03-15-2013, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkboy View Post

Quote:
I don't want to get into an argument, as I'm fairly new here, but Paraneer's point was pretty clear.

If you look at my post I was not asking Paraneer "Your point is?" but asking MUDCAT45. Paraneer makes some very valid points. But in the cnet comparison it never states that the Emotiva "smoked" the Denon. In that article the reviewer does not mention anything about level matching, how each processor was setup, source used (analog or HDMI) and how much time passed between listening comparisons. These are all simple items anyone doing a critical comparison would be aware of and should be mentioned in the article. None of these items were mentioned in the article so I do not put much stock in it. If the volume levels are not matched as part of the comparison the results can be skewed either way IMO.

Quote:
Sure he should have used a similar priced model, but he wanted something with the same advertised power. So in that particular regard it was an apt comparison, matched price point or no.

That is your opinion and thats fine. I have a different opinion on the topic.

Bill

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post #26 of 29 Old 03-15-2013, 10:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkboy View Post

Quote:
Your point is?

I don't want to get into an argument, as I'm fairly new here, but Paraneer's point was pretty clear.
Quote:
I think the main point he was making was about power ratings - that the Denon is rated higher at 90 wpc yet it was still smoked by the Emotiva at 80 wpc.

Sure he should have used a similar priced model, but he wanted something with the same advertised power. So in that particular regard it was an apt comparison, matched price point or no.

Hi Hawkboy did you order up some goodies yet.. mono blocks would be nice eh.. im using a denon 3313 ci avr with the emotiva xpa 3 driving my paradigm fronts really happy with my purchase
the added power was notice immediately in sound quality produced by my speakers..

so if you can get a digital avr with pre outs cheaper just add the amp from emotiva.. the amp will last and last.. from what ive read..

cheers..
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post #27 of 29 Old 03-22-2013, 08:57 PM
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Stepping away from the power wars for the moment, using a preamp/ amp vs. a receiver usually will yield benefits when playing music, especially acoustic recordings. It all about the nuances in music. Receivers can be good but to overcome the trade offs with having everything in one box it can cost a fair amount of money. Then there is the feature factor, in order to get what you want you may have to get a bunch of features you don't want.

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post #28 of 29 Old 06-01-2013, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkboy View Post

Hi Guys... newbie questions here so bear with me.

As the title says how would an Emotiva UMC-200 with a UPA-500 amp sound vs. my old Sony STR-DH800??? I'm more than sure it would sound WAY better but some honest opinions would be nice. I currently have a Klipsch RB-62 II Speaker system with a Klipsch RW-10 Sub.

Here's another question... My current Sony receiver says it's 100 watts the Emotiva Amp is 80 W. Am I losing too much there or am I worrying about nothing? I'm sure there is something misleading about these numbers from Sony. I don't have a large room if you are wondering.

Just curious what you guys have to say... THANKS!

-Gregg

I'm curious, can the emotiva umc 200 be used on it's own, or is it only a pre/processor and therefore needs to be couple with an amp? If the latter is the case, I would be pairing it with a UPA-500 amp.

In either situation, has anyone used it/them with the Energy Take Classic 5.1 speaker system?

Alex
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post #29 of 29 Old 06-03-2013, 09:29 AM
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It is a pre/processor and needs an amp. The UPA-500 is a good amp. I am using the 500 to drive 4 ohm speakers with no problems.

David
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