What Would You Like to See in Your Next AVR? - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 354 Old 05-01-2013, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjd420nova View Post

There are no real AUDIO standards for digital handshaking, HDMI is the first attempt but it still needs a bit of work and acceptance by the mfgrs to add those options. .

Regarding HDMI handshake issues, the standards are well documented..
The real issue is that certain major brands such as Samsung, LG, Direct TV, Apple, Dell, Motorola ignore the standards...
They do not submit their products for HDMI compliance and component interoperability testing to save $ and delivery time-to-market..
Generally everything works fine when connected directly to a display, the handshake, no audio or no video issues surface when going through an AVR with an HDMI repeater..

Just my $0.02... 👍😉
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post #332 of 354 Old 06-24-2013, 04:37 AM
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The new Denon 4520CI has many of the features requested here.
http://usa.denon.com/us/product/pages/productdetail.aspx?catid=avreceivers(denonna)&pid=avr4520ci(denonna)

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post #333 of 354 Old 06-24-2013, 04:54 AM
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My dream AVR would have plenty of power (150 WPC all channel driven) to drive a 7.1 system (subwoofer excluded) but less weight and less heat. Some thing like the Denon 4520 but with a Crown XLS digital amplifier replacing the Denon amplifier.
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post #334 of 354 Old 06-24-2013, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanc View Post

My dream AVR would have plenty of power (150 WPC all channel driven) to drive a 7.1 system (subwoofer excluded) but less weight and less heat. Some thing like the Denon 4520 but with a Crown XLS digital amplifier replacing the Denon amplifier.

The 4520 does allow you to completely shut down all amps.
It also has "Custom" amp configuration where you choose which amps you want turned on. I am using that feature now as my LCR's are self powered but my four surrounds are not. Great feature.
I just wish it had XLR pre-outs.

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post #335 of 354 Old 06-24-2013, 05:18 AM
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I owned a couple a Panasonic digital receivers SA-XR50, SA-SR57 and of course they were discontinued. But back then I loved their technology. I know that Crown XLS DriveCore series are designed for mobile DJ and not specifically for home audio, but their power and weight are very attractive qualities for an AVR. The Denon 4520 price and weight makes me think about separates as an alternative.
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post #336 of 354 Old 06-24-2013, 05:21 AM
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I don't understand what weight has to do with anything.

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post #337 of 354 Old 06-24-2013, 06:08 AM
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Weight can be misleading an amp can weigh in at a pretty heavy amount but that could be attributed to heavier heat sinks along with the chassis build and amount of boards and still have a weak power supply and small caps.
Digital amps are always lighter than their class A/B counter parts and sometimes lighter materials actually cost more, to many variables to go by weight alone test bench will always show what its really made of.
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post #338 of 354 Old 06-24-2013, 06:14 AM
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I mean who cares if an amp is heavy? Isn't that the question? It's not like we are carrying these things around on a daily basis.
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post #339 of 354 Old 06-24-2013, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

I mean who cares if an amp is heavy? Isn't that the question? It's not like we are carrying these things around on a daily basis.
I believe the heavy weight was in reference to it has to be a better amp/AVR because it weighs more.
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post #340 of 354 Old 06-24-2013, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanc View Post

My dream AVR would have plenty of power (150 WPC all channel driven) to drive a 7.1 system (subwoofer excluded) but less weight and less heat. Some thing like the Denon 4520 but with a Crown XLS digital amplifier replacing the Denon amplifier.

That's not how I read this post.

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post #341 of 354 Old 07-06-2013, 08:11 PM
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1. Class-D amps & SMPS power supply for light weight and low idle power consumption (and heat generation!)
2. Slim chassis (~2U)
3. Only need 5.1 support
4. 5-8 HDMI inputs
5. Can drop analog inputs altogether
6. Dolby Volume or similar
7. HDMI-CEC & ARC
8. Modern GUI that can be overlayed on top of video source
9. No video processing (or ability to defeat it completely)
10. Don't bother with streaming services except perhaps DLNA - there are better devices for this (Roku, AppleTV, etc.)
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post #342 of 354 Old 07-06-2013, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I want them to take a step back on adding features, and take a step forward on usability.

For instance, having the receiver detect which inputs actually have something plugged in, and greatly simply setup and adding a new device. As soon as you plug it in, it should ask you to name it, and that's it, no need to remember the number of which port you just plugged in. I shouldn't even have to know what HDMI is. Likewise it should support wireless connectivity equally well - airplay, widi, Bluetooth, etc

Id like a headphone jack in the rear that can have headphones permanently plugged in, instead of always forcing it on. Let those headphones act as zone 2, and let me set it to always output line level if the headphones themselves have a volume control (like most wireless headsets).

I'd like to see less vestigal buttons on the remote that do one thing, and a much better (and faster GUI) instead. It doesn't need to be Apple TV level simplicity, but it doesn't need to look like the control panel for a helicopter either. It definitely doesn't need to be a universal remote with playback and number buttons.

Throw a smartphone CPU/SoC in the receiver and make something fast and beautiful, instead of whatever slow and ancient processors they're using now. I should never need to read a manual - the OSD should clearly define every option as you're changing it, and provide user guidance. For instance, when setting crossover, explain what a crossover is, what its typically set at, the real diff between "small" and "large" etc.

I'd like a dynamic compression mode that you can set a schedule to - at 9pm, switch to night mode. At midnight, switch to midnight mode.

The receiver should also be aware of when it starts to clip/distort - the volume level display could just turn red to inform the user they're pushing it too far for optimum quality.

I guess basically just finally make a receiver that normal non-techie human beings can use without being totally baffled. Keep all the tech stuff behind the scenes, I still want it, but I swear its like they're all a decade behind the rest of the tech industry when it comes to GUI design. I want them to be receivers that are better at their actual job of integrating components, not try to be a sub par replacement for some of them.

The only thing on the front of it should be a volume dial, a power button, and a full color touchscreen. With an ambient light sensor to automatically change brightness, so you can see it in the day, and doesn't blind you at night.

Basically, I want someone to do to receivers what nest did for thermostats. This is absolutely possible today, all it takes is some design work and a $20-30 ARM chip.

Somebody listen to this man!

If Apple or Bose marketed it, it would be a huge hit (and probably overpriced but that's a different discussion).
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post #343 of 354 Old 07-07-2013, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by drawz View Post

10. Don't bother with streaming services except perhaps DLNA - there are better devices for this (Roku, AppleTV, etc.)

I, for one, love that my AVR turns on and switches to the right source automatically when I initiate an AirPlay stream, and so I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

One way around it would be for there to be some way for HDMI devices to notify the receiver that they're being requested to play something, which would then trigger the receiver to turn on (if necessary) and to switch inputs. You'd just have to make sure that all connected devices are well-behaved so that they don't trigger undesired input switching. That'd be super-annoying.

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post #344 of 354 Old 07-07-2013, 02:12 PM
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The denon x4000 is the one I finally switched to since it has everything I was looking for essentially.
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post #345 of 354 Old 07-09-2013, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JakeRobb View Post

I, for one, love that my AVR turns on and switches to the right source automatically when I initiate an AirPlay stream, and so I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

One way around it would be for there to be some way for HDMI devices to notify the receiver that they're being requested to play something, which would then trigger the receiver to turn on (if necessary) and to switch inputs. You'd just have to make sure that all connected devices are well-behaved so that they don't trigger undesired input switching. That'd be super-annoying.
That's what HDMI-CEC is for, I think.

I wasn't really thinking of local streaming (DLNA, Airplay, etc.) when I made that statement though. I think local streaming support is just fine, but I don't need ANOTHER way to stream Netflix and Hulu that is comparatively slow and not well maintained.
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post #346 of 354 Old 07-10-2013, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by drawz View Post

I don't need ANOTHER way to stream Netflix and Hulu that is comparatively slow and not well maintained.

+1 on that one.

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post #347 of 354 Old 07-10-2013, 07:46 PM
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I would love to have everthing the SC-79 has to offer but instead of 9 amps give me 7 with more power plus sub eq.
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post #348 of 354 Old 04-14-2014, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snyderkv View Post

Correct, a radio shack amp won't sound any different than a 1000w Krell (under clipping) removing manufacturer settings i.e. EQ, signal processing, gains etc

BUT! power would be the most important thing to figure out first don't you think. I don't buy a race car without knowing how much power it's making first. Once that's taken care of, sure, configure your Audyssey at that point. But it's secondary to me until I settle on something with enough power to handle my preferred listening level, speakers, source etc otherwise Audyssey won't do you any good

I don't think everything has power issues. But I don't believe people when they say their 35 watt amp isn't clipping. maybe they just hanve't heard an ABX test

I have to correct myself here. I now have that 35 watt amp and the thing goes way beyond my listening level with just a few watts (according to my volt meter attached to the stereo) So I'd imagine watts are not an issue for most of us without the largest deadest rooms and inefficient speakers.
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post #349 of 354 Old 04-14-2014, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by snyderkv View Post


I'll say it again, we are talking about the AVR and specifically the power outputs. The sound quality from your speakers won't sound good if your amp is clipping/straining no matter if your using Audyessey XT64 or 1000 or infinity. XT changes your perception of the sound, envolopement etc. EQ, gains etc is preference, some people like coloration of the source signal, others (purists) do not but it's still a preference

So yes I'm serious
That was an example, but yes you can play louder than the amp can produce, it's called clipping and Tube amps do it all the time, some people prefer the rounding off of highs. AMPs will clip, the answer is how much before it's humanly audible and starts to affect the SQ i.e. speaker distortion, less dynamics etc. Does this make more sense now?

My original point being, put more measured power into AMPs stable into lower ohms from 20-20 at its rated distortion just like high end amps.

But I guess the question was directed towards what features do people want in a low end AVR.

i.e AVR APP, integration with facebook or some crap and more multi-media supports. That's what they want to hear. Wanting more watts so I have better sound quality with better speakers at reference listening levels is like asking Ferrari to lower their price to a Toyata Corolla so I can afford one

Wanted to make a correction, although I am correct that higher watts equals better sounds quality, that is only IF you are clipping. I just purchased a cheap 50 watt amp with my Martin Logans and can't hear a difference between it and my $4000 receiver/amp. Come to find out even at louder volumes than I would ever listen to, I'm still only using a few watts according to my meter attached to the amp. Lesson learned
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post #350 of 354 Old 04-15-2014, 03:21 AM
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My Bryston 14sst is 900wpc at 4 ohms. It does not not drive my Legacy Focus SE's well at above reference levels. I would never get by with 50 watts.


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post #351 of 354 Old 04-15-2014, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

My Bryston 14sst is 900wpc at 4 ohms. It does not not drive my Legacy Focus SE's well at above reference levels. I would never get by with 50 watts.

How do you know that your Bryston is not driving the legacies well for sure?
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post #352 of 354 Old 04-15-2014, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

My Bryston 14sst is 900wpc at 4 ohms. It does not not drive my Legacy Focus SE's well at above reference levels. I would never get by with 50 watts.

I have to ask the same thing arnyk asked how do you know ?
Those speakers have a 95.4 db sensitivity what db are you trying to play at?
The recommended amp is 10 - 500 watts and like all speakers at some point it will just stop getting louder and heat things up do to physics. Years ago the mfg.'s posted maximum spl so you knew if this was going to be the right choice for your room and listening level.
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post #353 of 354 Old 04-15-2014, 06:48 AM
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I don't have a meter. so I don't know. I like to use my ears more than instruments anyway. I don't need a rain gauge to tell me it's raining hard LOL

 

I can take it to clipping at will. The two green leds start changing to orange.

I have pushed it into protection shutdown.

 

The SE's are full range speakers with two 12" woofers each. For reference, I am also running a Seaton Submersive HP+ with Slave which has on board 4000 watts

 

I also sent the 14B in a month ago when it would not come back on. They replaced a couple of relays that were a known issue. Talking to them on the phone they winced a little when I told them I was driving 4 ohm.

 

The Bryston is a really good amp and warranty is 20 years. I have no issue with either the Bryston or the Legacies. I just like SPL. The Legacy's can do it but the 4 ohm load is the issue. I'm no amp expert but I think these high end audiophile amps are not designed for my type of listening. For reference and below it's one sweet amp.

 

To drive large full range speakers like these at above reference levels requires lots of heat/load tolerant power. I used to have a Hafler D500 that was 250 wpc. I used to shut it down all the time running a 40 year old pair of Bose 901 Series I's.


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post #354 of 354 Old 04-15-2014, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

I don't have a meter. so I don't know. I like to use my ears more than instruments anyway. I don't need a rain gauge to tell me it's raining hard LOL

I can take it to clipping at will. The two green leds start changing to orange.
I have pushed it into protection shutdown.

The SE's are full range speakers with two 12" woofers each. For reference, I am also running a Seaton Submersive HP+ with Slave which has on board 4000 watts

I also sent the 14B in a month ago when it would not come back on. They replaced a couple of relays that were a known issue. Talking to them on the phone they winced a little when I told them I was driving 4 ohm.

The Bryston is a really good amp and warranty is 20 years. I have no issue with either the Bryston or the Legacies. I just like SPL. The Legacy's can do it but the 4 ohm load is the issue. I'm no amp expert but I think these high end audiophile amps are not designed for my type of listening. For reference and below it's one sweet amp.

To drive large full range speakers like these at above reference levels requires lots of heat/load tolerant power. I used to have a Hafler D500 that was 250 wpc. I used to shut it down all the time running a 40 year old pair of Bose 901 Series I's.
Sounds like you need a pair of Parasound Halo JC-1 they can drive a Milwalkee drill motor if your speakers don't go into meltdown.
How far back are you setting from your speakers?
Hard to believe Bryston would be concerned with 4ohm loads at that price point.
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