Japanese vs. English vs. American - Building a 5.1 Chanel Surround Sound System - Which Receiver to get? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 03-22-2013, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello There,

I am looking to buy a Receiver OR Processor/Amp and set up my own 5.1 Channel system and was wondering if I can get some recommendations of models to search for. Here are my options and requirements:

Requirements:

1. Extremely well built and has to be made in Japan, Europe, or the US/Canada (No Chinese made or outsourced models PLEASE).

2. Used/Pre-owned and recent vintage (within the last 15 years).

3. $200-$300 budget, I could stretch it to $400 for something amazing but I still have to buy the speakers.

4. At least 2 coaxial and 1 toslink input.

5. Something versatile enough to work with a multitude of various speakers (I haven't decided what speakers yet but I will have two towers/floor standing speakers, a decent sized center channel and might use satellite/bookshelf of wall hanging speakers for the rear). The speakers might have different wattage ratings but I am trying to get at least the front two and center channel to match (at least in terms of the manufacturer). So far I have been looking at things that sometimes people have to move fast on Craigslist but is high quality: Linn, NHT, Dynaudio, Magneplanar, Mirage, etc... I don't really like the idea of having a complete satellite system and a good 5.1 package is out of my price range so I have to buy this way so I can get excellent stereo music and decent 5.1 surround.

6. Something that is very good at not only surround sound but also 2 channel audio for music. I know it's often better to get a separate two channel amp for music but this is not an option for me and I want something that would work well in both modes.

Optional but would be nice:

1. Component Video Switching built in (must meet or exceed my Inday switcher and be capable of showing 1080i smoothly). I am not sure if I need upscaling as I believe that I have a built in upscaler in my Loewe Aconda (Anyone care to confirm this?)

2. Analog Audio input for 5.1? I have a Pioneer BDP-51FD which I will be using this with and it has analog 5.1 channel out. I might want to give it a try. Is this mostly for receivers that don't have the DTS decoding for soundtracks from Blu-Ray discs, if so that would give me a chance to buy an older one? Anyone know how different it would sound compared to toslink or coaxial?

3. Would prefer something with DTS decoding for Blu-Ray discs.

Options and What I've found so far in my price range:

1. The Japanese Route: KENWOOD KC-Z1 KM-Z1 (Looks awesome and amazing quality but no DTS and no component video), Onkyo NR-TX series (would love a 9xx or 1000 but these seem a bit high in my price range). Denon AVR (anniversary is amazing), Pioneer Elite (anniversary is amazing), even Sony's higher end, etc...

2. English Route: So far I have only found Arcam receivers in my price range that were still made in the UK. Meridian is a possibility as I have seen some people on craigslist selling them but this would lead to a processor/amp combo which I don't mind either. Any other suggestions for British made? Linn is amazing but out of my price range and I have only seen 2 channel?

3. American Route: So far I have only seen B&K but I have heard bad things about a lot of their receivers. Any other American made receivers to consider?

4. Any other European, Japanese or American/Canadian receivers? I have seen some JAMO ones made in Denmark but compared to Arcam and some of the higher end Japanese ones this might not be the best option?

If people can give me their opinions on what would be best and what specific models to search for that would be great (I.E. Luxman xxx, etc...)

Thank you!

P.S. I have also posted on the Speaker Forum about what tower/floor standing speakers to buy so if you could recommend those there that would be great :-)
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post #2 of 24 Old 03-22-2013, 08:03 PM
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looks like the chinese made ones are having a better reliability record than their japanese counterparts.
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post #3 of 24 Old 03-22-2013, 09:07 PM
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China manufactures more than 80% of the world's electrical components, so any receiver that says " Made in Japan, Canada, USA " most-likely only means ASSEMBLED in those countries. Not sure about Onkyo and Panasonic but the ONLY Denon receiver assembled in Japan is the AVR-4520ci. All others are built in China. Even boutique AVRs "made" in the USA are made from Chinese components.

China has gotten a lot better as far as QC goes but that is only if the companies that outsource watch the production like a hawk.

I know it sucks but that is what happens when the majority of folks want something on the cheap.

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post #4 of 24 Old 03-22-2013, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

China manufactures more than 80% of the world's electrical components, so any receiver that says " Made in Japan, Canada, USA " most-likely only means ASSEMBLED in those countries. Not sure about Onkyo and Panasonic but the ONLY Denon receiver assembled in Japan is the AVR-4520ci. All others are built in China. Even boutique AVRs "made" in the USA are made from Chinese components.

China has gotten a lot better as far as QC goes but that is only if the companies that outsource watch the production like a hawk.

I know it sucks but that is what happens when the majority of folks want something on the cheap.

I know all this but A. This has been happening more and more over the years and if I buy 10 year old equipment USED (like I wrote on my requirements list) then there will be less components in there that are made in China rather than today's offerings. B. The assembly is the most important aspect of the production process and where most of the man labour goes to work. There used to be many Denon's, etc... that were made in Japan a decade ago. Even my Pioneer Blu-Ray is made in Japan and it's only a few years old and was a mid-level model (not an Elite or anything).
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post #5 of 24 Old 03-22-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronKatz View Post

I know all this but A. This has been happening more and more over the years and if I buy 10 year old equipment USED (like I wrote on my requirements list) then there will be less components in there that are made in China rather than today's offerings. B. The assembly is the most important aspect of the production process and where most of the man labour goes to work. There used to be many Denon's, etc... that were made in Japan a decade ago. Even my Pioneer Blu-Ray is made in Japan and it's only a few years old and was a mid-level model (not an Elite or anything).

I thought you were looking at relatively new equipment. I think Denon started outsourcing most of their AVR's back in 2008. I think all of their CI receivers were made in Japan back then. That is the main reason I'm holding onto my Denon AVR-5308ci. I paid a lot for it and it is an excellent piece of gear which was made even better with the hardware upgrade. I'm pretty-much set up for separates now. I would just need another small multi-channel amp for surrounds beyond 5.x.

I think anything from Denon, Onlyo, Pioneer, Yamaha around the 2007 to 2009 time period would be a good choice. The Denon AVR-3808ci was a solid unit and folks here have been adding amplifiers to that unit to extend its life. The Denon AVR-4311ci ( same as the Denon 100th anniversary AVR ) is very popular as well.
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post #6 of 24 Old 03-23-2013, 12:04 AM
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Meridian for your $400 budget? On Craglist? eek.gif

You're not going to get even old Arcam meeting your criteria, or any British/European AVRs, except perhaps the Arcam 250.

If only you're not so against Chi-fi you could have a wider choice with NAD, Camb Audio etc. My 2001 NAD AVR 'Chi-fi' is still working.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #7 of 24 Old 03-23-2013, 12:13 AM
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the op made me lol.biggrin.gif

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!

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post #8 of 24 Old 03-23-2013, 05:58 AM
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Seriously, at the OP's budget, he will be lucky to afford "made in China". He might have to settle for the next low cost manufacturing paradise on the horizon - Vietnam.

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post #9 of 24 Old 03-23-2013, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

Seriously, at the OP's budget, he will be lucky to afford "made in China". He might have to settle for the next low cost manufacturing paradise on the horizon - Vietnam.

For new equipment yes, BUT Like I said in my posting I am only looking for used and upto 15 years old (preferably around 5-10 would be ideal) so a few generations back is no problem. I bought my Pioneer BDP-51FD Blu-Ray for $50 including shipping on eBay (It was $600 originally) and my Loewe Aconda for $40 on Craigslist ($3500 originally) I also got a pair of NHT A400s at goodwill for $11 ($100 originally) so I know I can get amazing things at great prices if I look hard enough and I have enough choices. This is why I want to make an extensive list and search daily until I find something of a deal like the ones I have gotten in the past.

jevans64 made a great recommendation with the Denon AVR-3808ci. I have already found one in my price range. I have also found a bunch of Onkyo TX-NR series Made in Japan fairly recent units in my price range, some Arcams, and many others!!! Even some of those units are overkill because I don't need HDMI and I will only have 5.1 not 7.1. So please read my whole original post before posting some criticism. Even my old crappy Sony DAV-C450 receiver (which I am replacing) that's from 2002 still manages to decode DTS from Blu-Ray just fine and give me decent surround sound effect.

I need to make a list of specific units like I mentioned in my OP to search for so I am asking all to do as jevans64 did and make recommendations instead of criticizing me.
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post #10 of 24 Old 03-23-2013, 12:18 PM
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Come on, lighten up Baron. Yes I read your OP and if you reread it, you have to admit it reads like a proverbial "having your cake and eating it too" wish list. I was also making a joke - meaning that with the current state of globalization, even China is starting to become more expensive.

I do not know for sure why you are rejecting goods made in China. Since you are willing to accept goods made in Japan, Europe and the USA, I suspect it is a perceived lack of quality on your part and not an offshoring issue. If this is the case, how do you feel about Malaysia and Taiwan? You should have no trouble finding a used, non-HDMI AVR from a mainstream Japanese manufacturer on Craigs list or Ebay. For instance, I know that just about every Pioneer Elite AVR pre HDMI receiver was made in Malaysia. I had several of them over the years and they gave me trouble free service.

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post #11 of 24 Old 03-23-2013, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

Come on, lighten up Baron. Yes I read your OP and if you reread it, you have to admit it reads like a proverbial "having your cake and eating it too" wish list. I was also making a joke - meaning that with the current state of globalization, even China is starting to become more expensive.

I do not know for sure why you are rejecting goods made in China. Since you are willing to accept goods made in Japan, Europe and the USA, I suspect it is a perceived lack of quality on your part and not an offshoring issue. If this is the case, how do you feel about Malaysia and Taiwan? You should have no trouble finding a used, non-HDMI AVR from a mainstream Japanese manufacturer on Craigs list or Ebay. For instance, I know that just about every Pioneer Elite AVR pre HDMI receiver was made in Malaysia. I had several of them over the years and they gave me trouble free service.

Malaysia is also a developing country. I had a high end Sony ES receiver that was made in Malaysia and it was cheaply built, the door broke off easily, and the connectors on the back somehow got bent and don't screw in properly, and one of the toslink inputs somehow broke. The Onkyo 605-705 series are also made in Malaysia and had problems with their HDMI inputs. On the other hand I have found some Denon 3803s for around $50-$100 and 3805s that are $100-$200 and made in Japan and cost less than the other ones mentioned...tongue.gif Anyway I would prefer something even higher build quality (not all Japanese products are created equally). If I can get a 3803 Denon for $75 bucks for example, then maybe for $200 I can get something even better. Something closer to the build quality of the Onkyo TX-NR900/1000/5000E, Sony E9000ES, Yamaha DSP-Z9, etc... those are behemoths with unbreakable build quality that is unrivaled, which is why all these higher end models were built in Japan while the lower end or mid-grade models that you listed were made in Malaysia or China...

P.S. To answer your question, it's not only for build quality reasons, the main reasons are political, personal, and ethical.
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post #12 of 24 Old 03-23-2013, 02:18 PM
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Wasn't this brought up by you 6 months ago in the "audio theory,set-up &chat"

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430055/audiophilia-newbie-looking-to-expand-system

That thread turned into a train wreck. As far as I can tell the only progress made
In your system is a center channel speaker. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I can understand why you don't want Chinese or developing country product.
To me though if you are buying second hand you are not supporting these
Places but an American trying to get some bucks. Really, the product has
Already been bought and paid for...right?

But, on to your requests...you seem to know what you want and where products
Made etc. The key is can you find them used,in good condition and at a price
With-in your budget.

If I made a recommendation for a Meridian model xyz made in 1993 meeting
Your criteria,what good would that recommendation be if you were never
Able to find one?

Same thing goes for your thread in the speaker forum. Looks like you found
Some decent speakers made in 1987. 25 years old,but with-in your budget.
Well, I may have these speakers,they sound great,etc but what if Bill,or Bob
Can't stand them. What are you gonna do...your ears are the final judge.

I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish,seems IMHO a
Big waste of time..
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post #13 of 24 Old 03-23-2013, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Wasn't this brought up by you 6 months ago in the "audio theory,set-up &chat"

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430055/audiophilia-newbie-looking-to-expand-system

That thread turned into a train wreck. As far as I can tell the only progress made
In your system is a center channel speaker. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I can understand why you don't want Chinese or developing country product.
To me though if you are buying second hand you are not supporting these
Places but an American trying to get some bucks. Really, the product has
Already been bought and paid for...right?

But, on to your requests...you seem to know what you want and where products
Made etc. The key is can you find them used,in good condition and at a price
With-in your budget.

If I made a recommendation for a Meridian model xyz made in 1993 meeting
Your criteria,what good would that recommendation be if you were never
Able to find one?

Same thing goes for your thread in the speaker forum. Looks like you found
Some decent speakers made in 1987. 25 years old,but with-in your budget.
Well, I may have these speakers,they sound great,etc but what if Bill,or Bob
Can't stand them. What are you gonna do...your ears are the final judge.

I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish,seems IMHO a
Big waste of time..

It matters to me because of build quality for example I have seen nothing from China that rivals the build quality of my Sony Vaio Z which is made in Japan, they also make the carbon fiber shell, display, and motherboard/FSB in Japan, as well as the external blu-ray player, etc... I have never seen a computer so well built. The same goes for my Leica Camera, my Loewe Aconda, etc... I have seen offerings from Paradigm, Rotel, Cambridge Audio, and even the newer Arcam stuff and it just looks cheap in comparison to say Meridian. I know there is a huge price difference but when I talk about high build quality I mean Meridian, Goldmund, Luxman, or even the Sony E9000ES, Onkyo TX-NR1000E (a lot of highest end Onkyo equipment for the European market was awesome), the Denon Anniversary edition models, even my Pioneer BDP-51FD, etc... Even if there was something on offer from China that matched this build quality and aesthetics (which I haven't seen so far), I still wouldn't buy it for political reasons. Even if it was cheaper and I had no political reasons, I would still see no point in buying new when I could buy a used 5-10 year old Japanese/European/American unit for cheaper than the newer Chinese one!

I have already found "Potentials" for my system, I just need a wide choice to see what the best I can get is. So far I have found a Denon 3805 for around $150, a Denon 5800 (amazing build quality monster of a machine) for $375, a Harman Kardon Signature 2.0 Processor for $150 (this was $2500 new and amazingly built), Kenwood Z1 combo (Amp and processor) for $300, and I found all these thanks to recommendations and offerings from people on this and other forums. I just need to make a list like this of all the choices I have and narrow down from there and see the pluses and minuses of both and which will work best for powering older speakers, etc...

So it would do good if people recommended more and thank you to those who are!

P.S. That other post was for my dads system and had completely different requirements, in case you're curious he went with 4 Jamo wall hanging speakers the Art Series which were made in Denmark and a Jamo center channel speaker (also made in Denmark from the same era) The whole set cost him about $120 for all 5 speakers. Might upgrade the amp to follow...
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post #14 of 24 Old 03-23-2013, 04:13 PM
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Like I said, I respect your reasons for not wanting Chinese products.
Frankly, I'm not interested in your Sony Vaio computer or your Leica
Camera.

I think it is presumptuous of you to appeal to the members of this forum
To help you with your very high set of "standards" in your "Scavenger Hunt" .
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post #15 of 24 Old 03-23-2013, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Like I said, I respect your reasons for not wanting Chinese products.
Frankly, I'm not interested in your Sony Vaio computer or your Leica
Camera.

I think it is presumptuous of you to appeal to the members of this forum
To help you with your very high set of "standards" in your "Scavenger Hunt" .

I merely used those as an example.

It's not a scavenger hunt of high standards. I am not asking for recommendations for new equipment, used is obviously harder to find as I am using craigslist and eBay and it can't be bought in stores. If that makes it some kind of scavenger hunt for you then so be it, however I have found nearly everything that forum members have recommended so far. I am merely asking for recommendations of specific models as well as my OP questions answered.
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post #16 of 24 Old 03-23-2013, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronKatz View Post


I have already found "Potentials" for my system, I just need a wide choice to see what the best I can get is. So far I have found a Denon 3805 for around $150, a Denon 5800 (amazing build quality monster of a machine) for $375, a Harman Kardon Signature 2.0 Processor for $150 (this was $2500 new and amazingly built), Kenwood Z1 combo (Amp and processor) for $300, and I found all these thanks to recommendations and offerings from people on this and other forums. I just need to make a list like this of all the choices I have and narrow down from there and see the pluses and minuses of both and which will work best for powering older speakers, etc...

I wouldn't go too far back as far as AVRs go because you start to lose features, like HDMI and lossless audio. If you can get that AVR-3808ci at a decent price it will have most of the features needed for modern A/V. The amp section may not be as strong as the AVR-5800 but that can be solved with the addition of external amps. I think Denon had a better track record than Onkyo back in those days from 2000 to around 2008. That changed when Denon switched their manufacturing to China. As was stated before, Denon is having serious quality problems with their flagship AVR-4520ci and it was made in Japan. I just don't trust their products these days but you'll have to pry my Denon AVR-5308ci from my cold, dead hands. smile.gif

I'm the first to admit that I have a lot of Chinese electronics in my home. The computer I'm typing this text on was made in China with parts from China and 2rd-world Asian countries. I've given up on finding American-made A/V electronics. The closest I can get is American companies that have their stuff built in China. I say this from time to time... The only real way to support the American economy these days is to sell everything and just buy hookers and booze. LOL I have A/V gear from Emotiva and Oppo which is of better build quality than mainstream A/V gear because they keep a close eye on their manufacturing pals in communist China. Companies like Denon, Onkyo, etc. etc. are too big to pay a lot of attention to build quality.
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post #17 of 24 Old 03-23-2013, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I wouldn't go too far back as far as AVRs go because you start to lose features, like HDMI and lossless audio. If you can get that AVR-3808ci at a decent price it will have most of the features needed for modern A/V. The amp section may not be as strong as the AVR-5800 but that can be solved with the addition of external amps. I think Denon had a better track record than Onkyo back in those days from 2000 to around 2008. That changed when Denon switched their manufacturing to China. As was stated before, Denon is having serious quality problems with their flagship AVR-4520ci and it was made in Japan. I just don't trust their products these days but you'll have to pry my Denon AVR-5308ci from my cold, dead hands. smile.gif

I'm the first to admit that I have a lot of Chinese electronics in my home. The computer I'm typing this text on was made in China with parts from China and 2rd-world Asian countries. I've given up on finding American-made A/V electronics. The closest I can get is American companies that have their stuff built in China. I say this from time to time... The only real way to support the American economy these days is to sell everything and just buy hookers and booze. LOL I have A/V gear from Emotiva and Oppo which is of better build quality than mainstream A/V gear because they keep a close eye on their manufacturing pals in communist China. Companies like Denon, Onkyo, etc. etc. are too big to pay a lot of attention to build quality.

Thanks for this insight. I am planning on having my Pioneer BDP-51FD do the decoding from DTS-MTA via the analogue outputs so this should not matter too much. I have found an AVR-3805 for $100 so I might go for that and use the analogue inputs on that from my Blu-Ray.

I understand that Emotiva and Oppo are somewhat affordable, but their build quality is not the same as a lot of the competition out there obviously there is a huge price difference but these companies are geared more towards mid-fi consumer gear. There are still a lot of small American manufacturers if you want American made such as Boulder Amps, Mcintosh, Pass Labs, just to name a few for amps (there are dozens if not hundreds). MIT, PS Audio, Homegrown Audio, Blue Jeans Cable, Kimber, Nordost, just to name a few of the hundreds of cable manufacturers in the US. Magnepan, Ascend, Orb Audio, HUMAN speakers, just to name a few of the many speaker manufacturers made in USA, etc... So there are choices out there, it's always easier to go to Best Buy and buy some new outsourced thing, rather than research like I am doing and get a top of the line used product that wasn't outsourced...
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post #18 of 24 Old 03-23-2013, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

I wouldn't go too far back as far as AVRs go because you start to lose features, like HDMI and lossless audio. If you can get that AVR-3808ci at a decent price it will have most of the features needed for modern A/V. The amp section may not be as strong as the AVR-5800 but that can be solved with the addition of external amps. I think Denon had a better track record than Onkyo back in those days from 2000 to around 2008. That changed when Denon switched their manufacturing to China. As was stated before, Denon is having serious quality problems with their flagship AVR-4520ci and it was made in Japan. I just don't trust their products these days but you'll have to pry my Denon AVR-5308ci from my cold, dead hands. smile.gif

I'm the first to admit that I have a lot of Chinese electronics in my home. The computer I'm typing this text on was made in China with parts from China and 2rd-world Asian countries. I've given up on finding American-made A/V electronics. The closest I can get is American companies that have their stuff built in China. I say this from time to time... The only real way to support the American economy these days is to sell everything and just buy hookers and booze. LOL I have A/V gear from Emotiva and Oppo which is of better build quality than mainstream A/V gear because they keep a close eye on their manufacturing pals in communist China. Companies like Denon, Onkyo, etc. etc. are too big to pay a lot of attention to build quality.

Thanks for this insight. I am planning on having my Pioneer BDP-51FD do the decoding from DTS-MTA via the analogue outputs so this should not matter too much. I have found an AVR-3805 for $100 so I might go for that and use the analogue inputs on that from my Blu-Ray.

I understand that Emotiva and Oppo are somewhat affordable, but their build quality is not the same as a lot of the competition out there obviously there is a huge price difference but these companies are geared more towards mid-fi consumer gear. There are still a lot of small American manufacturers if you want American made such as Boulder Amps, Mcintosh, Pass Labs, just to name a few for amps (there are dozens if not hundreds). MIT, PS Audio, Homegrown Audio, Blue Jeans Cable, Kimber, Nordost, just to name a few of the hundreds of cable manufacturers in the US. Magnepan, Ascend, Orb Audio, HUMAN speakers, just to name a few of the many speaker manufacturers made in USA, etc... So there are choices out there, it's always easier to go to Best Buy and buy some new outsourced thing, rather than research like I am doing and get a top of the line used product that wasn't outsourced...
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post #19 of 24 Old 03-24-2013, 06:45 AM
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If that Denon AVR-3805 is in good condition, it will more than meet your needs. I've had one since 2006 and have seen no need to replace it.
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post #20 of 24 Old 03-24-2013, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

If that Denon AVR-3805 is in good condition, it will more than meet your needs. I've had one since 2006 and have seen no need to replace it.

I ended up getting the Denon AVR-3805 for $100. It's well built (although not as well built as the 5800), was $1000 just a few years ago and was in amazing like new condition (minus the remote). It's made in Japan and will hopefully serve me well. Cheers to all the people who told me it can't be one in my budget and that I would have to buy Chinese, etc... It has everything I need including the component switching and even upscaling to 1080i from S-Video/Composite sources supposedly. biggrin.gif

That's not to say I won't upgrade to something better as soon as I find an amazingly hot deal like this one on a 5800 or Arcam or somethig else tongue.gif

Thanks to all who have contributed but please don't stop recommending things on this forum post since I will upgrade soon enough and give this one to my dad wink.gif

Onto the speakers, might get those Monitor Audio R952/MDs for $200, they look great, were top of the line and will go to check them out this week hopefully... Any other suggestions for speakers that might work well with the amp in both stereo for music and surround sound for film? If I only had the money to buy some Meridians or Linns rolleyes.gif
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post #21 of 24 Old 03-24-2013, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BaronKatz View Post

I ended up getting the Denon AVR-3805 for $100. It's well built (although not as well built as the 5800), was $1000 just a few years ago and was in amazing like new condition (minus the remote). It's made in Japan and will hopefully serve me well. Cheers to all the people who told me it can't be one in my budget and that I would have to buy Chinese, etc... It has everything I need including the component switching and even upscaling to 1080i from S-Video/Composite sources supposedly. biggrin.gif

That's not to say I won't upgrade to something better as soon as I find an amazingly hot deal like this one on a 5800 or Arcam or somethig else tongue.gif

Thanks to all who have contributed but please don't stop recommending things on this forum post since I will upgrade soon enough and give this one to my dad wink.gif

Onto the speakers, might get those Monitor Audio R952/MDs for $200, they look great, were top of the line and will go to check them out this week hopefully... Any other suggestions for speakers that might work well with the amp in both stereo for music and surround sound for film? If I only had the money to buy some Meridians or Linns rolleyes.gif

No way I would have bought the Denon AVR-3805. It is a good receiver for folks that don't have a modern setup but the lack of lossless audio support, HDMI, or networking is too much of a compromise. That is why it was $100. The AVR-3808ci would have been a better choice especially you one has a HDTV and Blu-ray.

Yes. 1080i is the limit for component video. I had a 5600, 5800, and 5803 before I got the 5308 when I went all digital.

HD-DVD = 94
Blu-Ray = 120 ( 24 Warner red2blu )
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post #22 of 24 Old 03-24-2013, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

No way I would have bought the Denon AVR-3805. It is a good receiver for folks that don't have a modern setup but the lack of lossless audio support, HDMI, or networking is too much of a compromise. That is why it was $100. The AVR-3808ci would have been a better choice especially you one has a HDTV and Blu-ray.

Yes. 1080i is the limit for component video. I had a 5600, 5800, and 5803 before I got the 5308 when I went all digital.

As I mentioned many times before: I don't have or need HDMI and I will be using it with my Loewe Aconda that has Component Video only. I will still get lossless audio support since my Pioneer BDP-51FD has analogue lossless out with HD-MTA decoding built in. I can always sell or give this receiver to my dad once I get an upgraded one. For now it's great since it has component video switching and has all the features I need. I thought I could use the extra $200 I would have spent on a better unit towards better speakers or ones that I like more!rolleyes.gif
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post #23 of 24 Old 03-25-2013, 03:37 AM
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I would look for a Denon 3808CI. Maybe if your lucky you will find one around $500 used...but purchasing from a reputable person, good luck. I owned a Denon 3808CI for years and had 0 problems with the unit. I purchased the Denon A100 and my son is using the 3808 everyday for 6+ hours in his bedroom. XBOX junkie. I wouldn't sell my 3808CI for anything less than $700 if I was selling

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post #24 of 24 Old 03-25-2013, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

No way I would have bought the Denon AVR-3805. It is a good receiver for folks that don't have a modern setup but the lack of lossless audio support, HDMI, or networking is too much of a compromise. That is why it was $100. The AVR-3808ci would have been a better choice especially you one has a HDTV and Blu-ray.
Hmm. HDMI, lossless, and networking would be nice, but none is necessary. I have a lovely sounding and looking system built around a 3805. The one important deficiency is the one you fail to mention - the lack of Audyssey. All in all, $100 seems like a great deal for the OP.
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