Marantz SR5007 with Martin Logan setup troubles - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 03-25-2013, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys,

First off my apologies if I am not posting in the right place and if so mods please feel free to move as needed.

I am a complete newbie and just started to put together a HT system, here's my hardware:

Martin Logan Motion 12's as front speakers
Martin Logan MLT-1 (sub, center, and rear speakers)
Marantz SR5007 AVR

When I initially purchased the system I bought a Yamaha RX-V473 AVR, however at higher volumes the circuit protection would pop and the receiver would shut off. I was told I needed a more powerful receiver, so I returned the Yamaha and bought the above Marantz, however I am still experiencing the circuit protection shut down, further my rear speakers sometimes drop to about half the normal volume. I am using 14 AWG speaker wires with banana plugs on both ends. I purchased a multi meter and checked each wire and speaker for shorts, but all looked good (0.02 ohms for my cables and around 4-5 ohms for my speakers.) I ran each speaker by itself to see if I can recreate the issue again today but during my testing the receiver did not go into protect mode. At this point I am at a loss as to what could be the problem. I was watching Avatar 3D the other day and had to turn up the receiver to around 65 on the volume scale (goes up to 90) and the receiver shut down on me 3 times. Any help is greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 12 Old 03-26-2013, 03:33 AM
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Most AVRs are only designed to power 6-8 ohm (and higher) speakers with the capability to power 4-ohm speakers at only moderate "TV" listening levels. For the louder volume levels you prefer, you'll want to add an external amp (eg. Emotiva XPA-3 or XPA-5).

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post #3 of 12 Old 03-26-2013, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for your reply jdsmootie, do I need to put all channels through the amp or would a stereo amp just driving the MLM 12's (i.e. Sherbourn PA 2-50 Stereo Amplifier 2 x 75 watts @ 4 ohms) work? Also would you advise going to the SR6007 vs the SR5007 which has 25 more watts per channel? I still have few days left on the return window of the receiver. Or if there are other units I should look at I'd like to know that as well.
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post #4 of 12 Old 03-26-2013, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Also how would I use the XPA-3 FR/FL/Center? Won't it cause any issues with the MLT-1 center?
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post #5 of 12 Old 03-26-2013, 03:58 PM
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A 25W difference doesn't amount to much .. which is why you want to bump up to a 200W+ amp. The AVR should be able to easily power the surrounds. Shouldn't be a problem for the center as the speakers will draw whatever power they need.

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post #6 of 12 Old 03-27-2013, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

A 25W difference doesn't amount to much .. which is why you want to bump up to a 200W+ amp. ....

Or, in audio terms, one has to double the power (3 dB gain) to make the audio difference. Hence there is a need for dedicated amps to drive those 4 ohms speakers. Middle to higher end receivers tend to become an integrated unit with pre-outs for this kind of need.
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post #7 of 12 Old 03-30-2013, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Talking to Magnolia AV they told me to return the unit and insisted I should be OK with the new AVR and would not need an additional amp. However, I am thinking of adding the Emotiva upa-200, i know it's only rated at 125W so not much of a step up from the Marantz, but my thinking is that since the Emotiva would be driving the fronts the Marantz should be able to handle the other channels, I also am thinking of replacing the center to a Motion C Center. That should balance out the center so I don't have to turn the volume up so much, the rears are rated at 8ohms so the Marantz should have an easier time driving them. Any thoughts, comments?
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post #8 of 12 Old 03-31-2013, 03:30 AM
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As previously noted, you should only be "okay" at moderate volume levels as the AVR is not designed to power 4-ohm speakers. Cannot say for sure whether the UPA-200 will be sufficient for your volume level requirements, however, Emotiva does offer a 30 day trial program, so that if it doesn't meet your requirements, you can send it back and upgrade to the XPA-2 or XPA-3.

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post #9 of 12 Old 03-31-2013, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowthebest View Post

Talking to Magnolia AV they told me to return the unit and insisted I should be OK with the new AVR and would not need an additional amp. However, I am thinking of adding the Emotiva upa-200, i know it's only rated at 125W so not much of a step up from the Marantz, but my thinking is that since the Emotiva would be driving the fronts the Marantz should be able to handle the other channels, I also am thinking of replacing the center to a Motion C Center. That should balance out the center so I don't have to turn the volume up so much, the rears are rated at 8ohms so the Marantz should have an easier time driving them. Any thoughts, comments?

If you are using the Martin Logan front speakers for stereo music listening, why take the baby steps? A required 3 dB is a 3 dB for a noticeable audio difference. (I'd use a classic Holly Cole Trio, I can see clearly now track to test for audio difference, but you'll be the judge. Or a Diana Krall's the Look of Love would do)*.

However, if you have a sub in your home theater setup, and don't care much about music listening, then you may not need any external amp at all for HT experience.

* http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Smoke-Bed-Holly-Cole/dp/B000005HBB/ref=ntt_mus_dp_dpt_1
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post #10 of 12 Old 10-13-2013, 08:16 AM
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Sorry to read about your issue with the sr5007.

I have had good luck with mine so far ... I have it powering my ML Motion 40s, Motion 30 center channel, and LX16 surrounds ... So far, so good. I've been running this system for 9 months.

I've read about how the 5007 runs hot, so to possibly compensate for this I've:

1) crossed over my 40s and 30 @ 90 hz and the LX16s @ 100hz, letting my ML Dynamo 700 sub do a little more of the heavy lifting

2) bi-amped the Motion 40s with the open 6th & 7th channels

And 3) devised a foundation for the 5007 where I can slide it out of the cabinet about a third of the way to allow it to breathe more and also bought a cooling fan from Cool Components which I run during the summer months (at about 1/2 speed while watching my classical and opera DVDs & Blu-rays ... @ full speed, it is too loud during quiet passages)
We don't run the AC until it reaches the upper 80s outside ... I've noticed that once daytime temps reach the mid 70s, the SR5007 gets significantly hotter.

My listening volume never goes above 70 ( out of 90 ), although some of the highly orchestrated passages in classical music provide the 5007 with a proper challenge ... And watching the 2012 Dark Knight Batman movie last week kept the 5007 quite busy as well - it passed with flying colors .

Again, so far, so good ... My ML Motion / Marantz set up sounds great and has performed reliably.

MartinLogan Motion 40s / 30 / LX16s
Marantz SR5007 / UD5007
Emotiva XPA-3
SVS PC13ultra

exercise room: MartinLogan LX16s / Dynamo700
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post #11 of 12 Old 12-19-2013, 11:38 PM
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Hey sorry to hear you're having a hard time with the s5007.

I own one and it drives my Martin Logan Motion 2's for fronts and surrounds, and the motion 6 for center. Now those speakers "like" 4 ohms but they are compatible with 6 and 8. So the s5007 keeps up just fine, even at very loud volumes. It does get a little warm, but I also have it rather crammed at the moment.

Anyhow, this receiver can't keep up with 4ohms, it's just to much. A stronger receiver that isn't rated for 4 ohms won't solve your problem either. With that being said, the s6007 isn't going to cut it, again only rated for 6ohms and 8ohms. At this point we've jumped from $850 to $1200 (msrp new when these came out, cheaper now) But the point is that in that gap not only could you get a nice amp from emotiva but your still not solving your problem.

Getting a receiver right out of the gate that supports 4ohms is unlikely, and also very expensive. You're much better off with an amp from a solid company. The emotiva's you mentioned are slightly over kill, you could get away with a UPA 500 for only $350 and that specifically handles 4ohms, which means your speakers will perform fine at all volumes. The s5007 also has pre outs for all 7.2 channels so you're completely covered there to. You could power your fronts, center, whatever you like, with ease.

A good amp vs no amp is night and day.

Quick Knowledge about Ohms, it's a measure of resistance in an electrical current, a 25w jump up has nothing to do with resistance, you could in theory have the same if not lower watts and a lower ohm (less resistance, more raw power) so just keep that in mind. Also, if you buy speakers that need or want 4ohms, it's worth the time and money to give it that power, only then will those speakers perform at 100%

Anyhow, good luck!

Greg
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post #12 of 12 Old 02-04-2014, 07:21 AM
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Ironically, you probably don't check this since it was so long ago, but I am running the exact setup you are describing (nearly)....

-Marantz SR5003 AVR
-Paradigm center
-Paradigm Studio 20s as surrounds
-Martin Logan Motion 12 mains (4ohm I knew would be a problem on the Marantz)

Also, this system is used for both movies and music and the music is more important to me...so I knew I wanted good power for the mains, the UPA-200 is rated at 185W/Channel for 4 Ohm speakers (lower ohms than 8 typically mean you cannot use ANY amp/receiver but if you can, lower impedance draws more wattage - assuming the amp can do 4-6 ohms)..I have never encountered any issues and the Motion 12s sound amazing with the Emotiva amp (just use L/R main speakers pre-out to the amp and run a trigger cable it will auto power on/off the amp).
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