Calibrating the 7.1 Input channel?? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 03-25-2013, 11:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Everybody,

I had just built a new DIY Sub and it sounds fantastic by the way.. and as you know now I need to recalibrate the system with my SPL Meter.. Well that worked for the regular channels but I am having trouble remembering how to do this for my 7.1 Input channels..

I have a Marantz 4001 Reciever and a Samsung Blu ray with a Denon 1930ci which uses the 5.1/7.1 analog outs to the receiver.. I looked in the Recievers menu and went into the 7.1 input but NO test tones played..

I am stuck on How to properly set the levels if there is NO test tone??

Sorry for the really stupid noob question but I am at a loss..

EDIT: I just checked the Manual it appears a test tone should play but it doesn't.. I will mess around ltr this morning and recheck the manual but this is perplexing

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post #2 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 02:11 PM
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I'm confused...you have two receivers??

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post #3 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

I'm confused...you have two receivers??

The Denon is a DVD player! smile.gif

Cheers, Feri


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post #4 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

The Denon is a DVD player! smile.gif

DOH! redface.gif

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post #5 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 02:38 PM
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Page 27 of your manual - that didn't produce any test tones?

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post #6 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 03:44 PM
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With MCH analog, the tones come from the player, not the receiver. The player has its own tones. Or, better still, use a calibration disc as that tests the path you will actually be using.

Also, you will need to add 10dB (15dB if doing bass management in the player) to the sub output since it comes across low from the player.
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post #7 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

With MCH analog, the tones come from the player, not the receiver. The player has its own tones. Or, better still, use a calibration disc as that tests the path you will actually be using.

Also, you will need to add 10dB (15dB if doing bass management in the player) to the sub output since it comes across low from the player.


Hmm OK I will look into that..So the Denon should be able to play test tones in the 7.1 input?? Or should I use my Blu ray player which also uses the 7.1 inputs..??

Which Calibration disk would you reccomend??

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post #8 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 04:43 PM
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To be really thorough, you'll need to calibrate with both players. Remember, when set to the external inputs, you're hearing the output of the players, not the receiver. Your AVR is pretty much just acting as an amp. I use Avia.
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post #9 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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So Will it be calibrated close with using both players?? I tried using my DVD Player but the remote seems to be broken.. I could open the menu but could not scroll around in the menu.. I think the remote is broke..

If I use avia how am I going to calibrate the 7.1 inputs??

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post #10 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 06:47 PM
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The AVR has HDMI, both players have HDMI, no reason to use players' MCH analogue out fighting for one set of MCH IN, unless the Denon doesn't output anything from SACD via HDMI. Still no reason for Samsung BDP using MCH 7.1.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #11 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

The AVR has HDMI, both players have HDMI, no reason to use players' MCH analogue out fighting for one set of MCH IN, unless the Denon doesn't output anything from SACD via HDMI. Still no reason for Samsung BDP using MCH 7.1.


Hi Sorry but I need to use the Analog connections for both players.. the Marantz 4001 does not have the hd codecs so I have the Blu ray play them.. Also the DVD_Audio/SACD Multichannel does not work over HDMI on the Denon 1930ci..

I just tested the Remote it is broken.. I found a new one on Ebay will buy it in a few days..

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post #12 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

So Will it be calibrated close with using both players?? I tried using my DVD Player but the remote seems to be broken.. I could open the menu but could not scroll around in the menu.. I think the remote is broke..
it depends on the output levels of each player. They'll probably be fine, unless the channel levels have already been modified. You would normally leave the player outputs at 0dB and adjust levels in the receiver. But, with two players to calibrate, you may still need to adjust levels in one of them in order to get both at the same level coming out of the receiver. It also depends on whether your receiver allows you to set different channel levels for the external inputs. If not, you may need to do the trimming in the players to avoid screwing up your regular digital calibration.

kilian.ca asks a good question, though. Why are you using analog if your equipment has HDMI?

EDIT: I see you answered while I was posting this reply. With Blu-ray, you can have the player decode and send PCM. No need for lossless decoders in the receiver that way. As you should only need to calibrate one player, not two, you should be able to leave the Denon output at 0dB and do all of the trimming in the receiver, provided it allows you to have separate trim levels for digital and the external inputs.
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If I use avia how am I going to calibrate the 7.1 inputs??
Insert the disc, play the tones, and make whatever adjustments are needed.
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post #13 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

it depends on the output levels of each player. They'll probably be fine, unless the channel levels have already been modified. You would normally leave the player outputs at 0dB and adjust levels in the receiver. But, with two players to calibrate, you may still need to adjust levels in one of them in order to get both at the same level coming out of the receiver. It also depends on whether your receiver allows you set set different channel levels for the external inputs. If not, you may need to do the trimming in the players to avoid screwing up your regular digital calibration.

kilian.ca asks a good question, though. Why are you using analog if your equipment has HDMI? EDIIT: Isee you answered while I was posting this reply. With Blu-ray, you can the play decode and send PCM. No need for lossless decoders in the receiver that way. As you should only need to calibrate one player, not two, you should be able to leave the Denon output at 0dB and do all of the trimming in the receiver, provided it allows you to have separate trim levels for digital and the external inputs.
Insert the disc, play the tones, and make whatever adjustments are needed.

I answered why I am using the analog inputs in post #11..

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post #14 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

it depends on the output levels of each player. They'll probably be fine, unless the channel levels have already been modified. You would normally leave the player outputs at 0dB and adjust levels in the receiver. But, with two players to calibrate, you may still need to adjust levels in one of them in order to get both at the same level coming out of the receiver. It also depends on whether your receiver allows you set set different channel levels for the external inputs. If not, you may need to do the trimming in the players to avoid screwing up your regular digital calibration.

kilian.ca asks a good question, though. Why are you using analog if your equipment has HDMI? EDIIT: Isee you answered while I was posting this reply. With Blu-ray, you can the play decode and send PCM. No need for lossless decoders in the receiver that way. As you should only need to calibrate one player, not two, you should be able to leave the Denon output at 0dB and do all of the trimming in the receiver, provided it allows you to have separate trim levels for digital and the external inputs.
Insert the disc, play the tones, and make whatever adjustments are needed.

I answered why I am using the analog inputs in post #11..
Yes, and I replied as to why analog doesn't seem necessary with the Blu-ray player.
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post #15 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, and I replied as to why analog doesn't seem necessary with the Blu-ray player.

ok it is the blu ray player is fine it is my Reciever that does NOT have the HD codecs..

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post #16 of 30 Old 03-26-2013, 08:20 PM
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Like I said, the receiver doesn't need lossless decoders if the player has them. TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are really just types of zip files used to save space. The zipped up soundtrack can be unzipped in the player or the receiver. It doesn't matter which. You get the same PCM either way. So, you set the player to decode and send PCM to the receiver. It is the exact same PCM you would get if the receiver did the decoding.
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post #17 of 30 Old 03-27-2013, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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well shall try to hook up with the HDMI but how am to tell if it is decoding the HD Tracks and not the compressed one??

I was told using the analog outputs was the ONLY way to hear the HD Track??

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post #18 of 30 Old 03-27-2013, 06:27 AM
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You were told wrong. Make sure you do not have a DSP such as PLIIx engaged on your receiver. Set the player to decode the track and then play a disc with a 7.1 soundtrack. If you get sound from your rear speakers, you're getting the lossless track. Lossy tracks are limited to 5.1.
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post #19 of 30 Old 03-27-2013, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

You were told wrong. Make sure you do not have a DSP such as PLIIx engaged on your receiver. Set the player to decode the track and then play a disc with a 7.1 soundtrack. If you get sound from your rear speakers, you're getting the lossless track. Lossy tracks are limited to 5.1.

OK I will try that..thnx

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post #20 of 30 Old 03-27-2013, 06:46 AM
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PLIIx is great for ambience


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post #21 of 30 Old 03-27-2013, 06:55 AM
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Yes, but it should be off for this test.
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post #22 of 30 Old 03-27-2013, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

You were told wrong. Make sure you do not have a DSP such as PLIIx engaged on your receiver. Set the player to decode the track and then play a disc with a 7.1 soundtrack. If you get sound from your rear speakers, you're getting the lossless track. Lossy tracks are limited to 5.1.

WEll it seems alot of us where told wrong as when I bought this bluray player there was all the talk about having to use the Anolog outs because the Reciever can NOT decode it but which might be true they also said the blu ray can not either??

Well I will be a monkeys uncle it did work with the HDMI.. All this time I did NOT need to use the analogs.. I wonder how many other people are still using the analog outs??

I put in Tron that had a 7.1 soundtrack and hooked up my side rears and when I finally got it too play I had a little mucking about with the menus to get it to play I had my Nephew listen to the rears and Voila sound was comming out of them I was like I don't believe it..

I am just wondering which setting I should use in the Blu rays sound menu here are the options:

1. PCM
2. bitstream ( re-encode)
3. bitstream (Audiophile)

Looking again it appears I want to use PCM!!

Thank you so much for that info. I still can't believe it but what has my goat why did they even bother putting in the analog outs on the blu ray I thought that wass their purpose?? Wierd..

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post #23 of 30 Old 03-27-2013, 04:02 PM
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Yes, PCM is the setting you want to use. The two Bitstream settings will send lossy codecs because your receiver lacks lossless decoding.

Multichannel analog is useful for people whose processors lack HDMI (me, for example). I use MCH analog with a BD player and an SACD/DVD-Audio player, meaning I have to use a switch and 18 cables so that both devices can share one set of analog inputs on the receiver. There was a lot confusion back when lossless audio first hit the market. Players and receivers had various combinations of decoding and transmission capability.
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post #24 of 30 Old 03-27-2013, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow this is cool I never knew I could use the HDMI..I will not need my switch and the other 2 sets of 5.1 analog cables.. maybe I'll sell them don't see any future neeed for them..

I only need the 1 set for my DVD-A/SACD Playback. with using the hdmi it is going to make it easier for everybody to setup the blu ray player now just 1 button to press on the remote and no switching ..

Thnx so much for telling me that at first I thought you where wrong.. Thnx again and looking forward to watching/listening my next blu ray all digital..

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post #25 of 30 Old 03-27-2013, 05:35 PM
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Glad to help. smile.gif
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post #26 of 30 Old 03-28-2013, 04:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I am going to have Movie night tonight.. We are going to watch War of the Worlds.. Should be interesting especially with the new sub and it will be 100% Digital thnx to Bislander.. wink.gif

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post #27 of 30 Old 03-29-2013, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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well just a while ago I tried running the Blu Ray player Test tones but no sound came out?? what does that indicate??

I just ran the test tones on my reciever and got that all balnaced out sounds great.. I even plotted the sub with a spreadsheet and it appears I have a pretty flat responce on the sub from 20-120hz..

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post #28 of 30 Old 03-29-2013, 11:38 AM
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If you are using HDMI now for your BD player, the player test tones have no bearing. Digital calibration happens in the receiver, not the player. The player test tones only into play with multichannel analog.

How was movie night with your new sub?
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post #29 of 30 Old 03-29-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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well I forgot my nephew had to go somewhere so we changed it to Friday night wink.gif

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post #30 of 30 Old 03-31-2013, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

If you are using HDMI now for your BD player, the player test tones have no bearing. Digital calibration happens in the receiver, not the player. The player test tones only into play with multichannel analog.

How was movie night with your new sub?

e just got done movie night. We watched "I am Legend" all I can say is WOW!!!.. this subwoofer can shake the foundation of the house..

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