Yamaha RX-V 75 Series owners thread - Page 104 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!



Forum Jump: 
 221Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #3091 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 01:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,026
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1120 Post(s)
Liked: 703
It should be 120 Hz and it is good it is non-adjustable.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
m. zillch is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3092 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 01:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 6,946
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 609 Post(s)
Liked: 337
^ That's what I've always assumed, but don't know for sure.
PlasmaPZ80U likes this.
kriktsemaj99 is offline  
post #3093 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 02:26 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,858
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1737 Post(s)
Liked: 500
And should the slope be 24dB per octave?
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #3094 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 02:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,026
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1120 Post(s)
Liked: 703
Since there is nobody that thinks it should be tampered with, nor do we think it can be (with most Yamahas at least), why all the interest in something you shouldn't touch?

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".

Last edited by m. zillch; 08-19-2016 at 02:57 PM.
m. zillch is offline  
post #3095 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 02:38 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,858
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1737 Post(s)
Liked: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Since there is nobody that thinks it should be tampered with, nor do we thinking it can be (with most Yamahas at least), why all the interest in something you shouldn't touch?
...because when I do sub EQ with REW+UMIK-1+MiniDSP 2x4, having the LFE channel measured response fit the intended target line is important (I want a smooth rolloff at the top end of sub's response for LFE channel that is consistent with the LPF applied via AVR)... and the 375 doesn't do sub EQ, BTW.

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Motorola RNG150N
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #3096 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 02:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,026
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1120 Post(s)
Liked: 703
Oh I see, despite the fact that all experts are in universal agreement that it should not be tampered with, under any circumstances, and that the other [non-Yamaha] companies which offer user control over it were dead wrong to have done so, you actually know better. You are on your own kid.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".

Last edited by m. zillch; 08-19-2016 at 02:53 PM.
m. zillch is offline  
post #3097 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 02:59 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,858
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1737 Post(s)
Liked: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Oh I see, despite the fact that all experts are in universal agreement that it should not be tampered with and that the other [non-Yamaha] companies which offer user control over it were dead wrong to have done so, you actually know better. You are on your own kid.
It seems you have misunderstood what I said entirely... I'm not tampering with it, I'm preserving it.

If I was to use a horizontal, flat line as the target, I would get an uneven and sharp cutoff in the 100Hz to 200Hz region. By having a rolloff in the target line that matches the AVR's LPF for LFE (not an extra or different LPF just a target line for auto generated PEQ filters), I would get a even, smooth rolloff that would be a match to the result I would get with one of Yamaha's better AVRs.

You seem to think my goal is the change the LPFs frequency or slope... if that were true, why would I ask about the LPF the AVR is applying?

...really, give someone the benefit of the doubt before being so harsh.

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Motorola RNG150N
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #3098 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 03:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,026
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1120 Post(s)
Liked: 703
Sorry if I was harsh.




I suspect you are mistakenly thinking the LPF of the LFE channel is synonymous with the LPF of your receiver's subwoofer output. As I understand it, these aren't the same thing but boy do they often get confused with each other.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
m. zillch is offline  
post #3099 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 03:23 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,858
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1737 Post(s)
Liked: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Sorry if I was harsh.




I suspect you are mistakenly thinking the LPF of the LFE channel is synonymous with the LPF of your receiver's subwoofer output. As I understand it, these aren't the same thing but boy do they often get confused with each other.
Well, I'm referring to the LPF applied to the LFE channel, not the LPF half of the (bass managed speaker channels') global crossover.

The reason for this is the measurement I take in REW is of the LFE channel and since the AVR is already applying LPF for the LFE channel (albeit fixed and not specified in specs), I want the target line in REW for PEQ filters to match the AVR's LPF for LFE channel corner frequency and slope. While 120Hz is obviously the right frequency, I want to confirm the slope as well as REW offers 12dB per octave and 24dB per octave as choices for the target line. Though when I hover over the setting there is a tool tip that says usually 24dB per octave.

So, I'm thinking 120Hz 24dB per octave are the parameters to input into the REW target line so the end result is an LFE channel response that is ideal. And so the bass managed channels also get improved indirectly as the MiniDSP is applying the filters to the whole signal the sub gets from the AVR.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #3100 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 03:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,026
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1120 Post(s)
Liked: 703
Not sure if this helps, but for nitty gritty detailed specs you might want to sign up for an account here:
http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/index.html


Here are some screen shots I grabbed for you of another Yamaha receiver they once measured in 2008:
[To make things even more confusing when they say "LFE output" they might actually mean "the subwoofer output", but I'm not sure]


Notice the steep roll off of the LPF. I think this is to ensure you they can push the frequency up pretty high yet we won't accidentally hear male voice from the sub.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 08-19-16 at 03.17 PM.PNG
Views:	12
Size:	12.8 KB
ID:	1612481   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 08-19-16 at 03.20 PM.PNG
Views:	13
Size:	33.5 KB
ID:	1612489  

Last edited by m. zillch; 08-19-2016 at 03:38 PM.
m. zillch is offline  
post #3101 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 03:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,858
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1737 Post(s)
Liked: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Not sure if this helps, but for nitty gritty detailed specs you might want to sign up for an account here:
http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/index.html


Here are some screen shots I grabbed for you of another Yamaha receiver they once measured in 2008:
[To make things even more confusing when they say "LFE output" they might actually mean "the subwoofer output", but I'm not sure]


Notice the steep roll off of the LPF. I think this is to ensure you they can push your frequency up pretty high yet won't accidentally hear male voice from your sub.
Well, I'll have to read it in more detail but it seems if REW has 2 choices, 24dB per octave is the safer bet.

Regarding that comment about male voices, that is for bass management, right? I don't think they would include any portion of dialogue in the Low Frequency Effects channel... unless maybe it's for an effect like with Batman's voice changer in Batman vs. Superman.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #3102 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 04:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,026
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1120 Post(s)
Liked: 703
Except for bizarre alien or super being scenarios, I can't think of why we'd ever want male voices to come from the sub. Way back before we got calibration mics and computers to figure these things out with better accuracy than we can, a fairly standard test was to crank the sub up until all male voices sounded like Darth Vader, and then slowly turn down the sub level, bit by bit, until only Darth Vader sounded like Darth Vader. That's how you determined sub level!

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
m. zillch is offline  
post #3103 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 04:38 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,858
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1737 Post(s)
Liked: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Except for bizarre alien or super being scenarios, I can't think of why we'd ever want male voices to come from the sub. Way back before we got calibration mics and computers to figure these things out with better accuracy than we can, a fairly standard test was to crank the sub up until all male voices sounded like Darth Vader, and then slowly turn down the sub level, bit by bit, until only Darth Vader sounded like Darth Vader. That's how you determined sub level!
interesting, I guess voices like the Hulk and the like would qualify as effects instead of dialogue since it is outside the normal vocal range of male voices
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #3104 of 3108 Unread 08-19-2016, 04:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,026
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1120 Post(s)
Liked: 703
Super beings don't count. For all I know they might come at you from all 5.1 speakers simultaneously even though they clearly are visually front and center on screen. . . You know, like God.


You can't use mythical sounds or mythical images to adjust/calibrate audio or video because there is no real-world reference for what is correct and accurate. This is why using cartoon or CGI images to adjust video displays is silly, just like using electronic instruments is for adjusting sound:


"I didn't like Shrek's skin tone at all. It looked off to me, so I adjusted my TV until it was the correct value of green."


is the same as:


"I thought the electric guitar in the Jimi Hendrix song sounded thin and tinny so I tweaked my EQ until it sounded accurate."


What these dumb people don't understand is they are adjusting for an arbitrary level they happen to prefer, not what is necessarily accurate or what the artists intended. Shrek doesn't exist so he doesn't have a true color and that Hendrix guitar has at the very least one if not more rotary tone controls right on the front surface which can give it thousands of different tonalities. Only Jimi knows what setting he used.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
m. zillch is offline  
post #3105 of 3108 Unread Today, 02:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChromeJob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: N. Carolina
Posts: 1,157
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 479 Post(s)
Liked: 154
Maybe the Borg in STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT would qualify for subwoofer voice calibration. All channels, some (lots?) of sub-low register.

But still. Human voices start at what, 3000Hz or so? Maybe lower, like 2000Hz? If you're hearing harmonics of a voice from the sub, look for the name Michael Bay on the disc cover.

So back to the real world ... no one has feedback on the new firmware?
ChromeJob is online now  
post #3106 of 3108 Unread Today, 03:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,026
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1120 Post(s)
Liked: 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
Maybe the Borg in STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT would qualify for subwoofer voice calibration?
Just like there is no such thing as Shrek, so you have no idea what exact shade of green he should be, there's no such thing as Borg, so you don't now what they should sound like. You've never met one in real life.


Sure, you can adjust your system to make these things appear/sound however you personally like, that's indeed what most people errantly do, but you will never be able to prove that your system is more accurate than another because the calibration test tone/image you used is simply a mental construct you've formed in your mind, not a real thing that we've actually experienced in the flesh.


Male voice can range from individual to individual [think Pee-wee Herman vs. James Earl Jones] however this graphic might be of averages:

Of course with processing such as Autotune or even just an equalizer male voices an be adjusted to be even lower, however some (real) male voices can even venture into subwoofer territory, say around 85 Hz or so.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".

Last edited by m. zillch; Today at 03:10 PM.
m. zillch is offline  
post #3107 of 3108 Unread Today, 03:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bond 007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15,494
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1809 Post(s)
Liked: 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
So back to the real world ... no one has feedback on the new firmware?
My 675 is in the closet. I replaced it with a 740.
ChromeJob likes this.
Bond 007 is online now  
post #3108 of 3108 Unread Today, 06:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChromeJob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: N. Carolina
Posts: 1,157
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 479 Post(s)
Liked: 154
That's where my 663 is....

β€œHey, Jenny Slater. Hey, Jenny Slater. HEY, Jenny Slater.”
A: Yamaha RX-V775. Bose 401 mains, 301 Series III surrounds, Yamaha NS-C444 center, Hsu VTF-2 Mk4.
V: Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Yamaha DVD-S550.

ChromeJob is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
a/v receiver , component cables , hdmi , optical audio , Yamaha , Yamaha Rx V375 5 1 Channel Av Receiver , Yamaha Rx V475 5 1 Channel Network Av Receiver , Yamaha Rx V575 7 1 Channel Network Av Receiver , Yamaha Rx V675 7 2 Channel Network Av Receiver , Yamaha Rx V775wa 7 2 Channel Network Av Receiver
Gear in this thread



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off