Yamaha RX-V 75 Series owners thread - Page 44 - AVS Forum
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post #1291 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by am_dew View Post
Speaking of YPAO, I have a situation where my front speakers are extremely efficient (some old 15" home-made JBLs) and as such are not a a good match for the other speakers in the system. YPAO sets levels as such:

Fronts: -2.5
Center: +10 (Klipsch C-20)
Surrounds: +5 (Klipsch B-20)
Sub: +1 (Polk PSW-10)

It all sounds very good but the high levels of the center and surrounds bugs me. I believe that short of replacing the fronts with a closer matching pair of speakers, especially in terms of efficiency, to the others, there is not much I can do. Comments?
I agree. I would atleast rerun YPAO to get that center off of +10 though. Its not good to have any of your speakers maxed out. If you turn the sub up just a notch and rerun YPAO it should take care of that.
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post #1292 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
I agree. I would atleast rerun YPAO to get that center off of +10 though. Its not good to have any of your speakers maxed out.
I've re-run YPAO several times and got the same result on the center each time. If only I could figure out a way to attenuate those fronts by 4-5 dB.
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post #1293 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by am_dew View Post
I've re-run YPAO several times and got the same result on the center each time. If only I could figure out a way to attenuate those fronts by 4-5 dB.
Regardless of where you set the sub volume the center is always +10?
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post #1294 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Regardless of where you set the sub volume the center is always +10?
I have not tried adjusting the sub volume. I figured since it was being set to +1, that was good. Shall I raise or lower it?
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post #1295 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by am_dew View Post
I have not tried adjusting the sub volume. I figured since it was being set to +1, that was good. Shall I raise or lower it?
Raise it. That will bring the volumes of all the speakers down. Changing the sub volume is the only proper way to run YPAO and keep all the speakers at the proper volume. If you just keep running it over and over without changing anything the values will stay the same.
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post #1296 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Raise it. That will bring the volumes of all the speakers down. Changing the sub volume is the only proper way to run YPAO and keep all the speakers at the proper volume. If you just keep running it over and over without changing anything the values will stay the same.
Thanks. When I first set up my system, I adjusted the sub volume slightly a couple different times trying to get the sub level as close to 0 dB as possible. But I will try again, this time raising it so that YPAO sets it to -3 or -4 dB and see if that affects the center level.

Last edited by am_dew; 06-13-2014 at 07:15 AM.
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post #1297 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Would you agree that having the sub volume on the + side in the AVR can mean that you will run into distortion earlier? Especially at the volumes he is listening at.
I always assumed there's enough headroom built into the processing chain to accomodate the various level trims without running into clipping (at least without turning the master volume way into positive territory). But I can't say for sure.
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post #1298 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
I always assumed there's enough headroom built into the processing chain to accomodate the various level trims without running into clipping (at least without turning the master volume way into positive territory). But I can't say for sure.
Nearly everyone recommends to not run sub volume into the + side of the AVR. The signal can become more easily distorted and the sub is amplifying a distorted signal.
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post #1299 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by am_dew View Post
Thanks. When I first set up my system, I adjusted the sub volume slightly a couple different times trying to get the sub level as close to 0 dB as possible. But I will try again, this time raising it so that YPAO sets it to -3 or -4 dB and see if that affects the center level.
Very well. It should reduce the center to ~+7. This will not fix your problem but atleast all the speakers will be within the +-9 volume range.
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post #1300 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Nearly everyone recommends to not run sub volume into the + side of the AVR. The signal can become more easily distorted and the sub is amplifying a distorted signal.
The output signal level is going to depend on the sum of the master volume and the level trim. So for sure a +5 level gives you 5 dB less headroom on the master volume before clipping. But the signal levels throughout the chain should have been considered by the designers and I still wouldn't worry about clipping with the sub at +5 for any practical volume level.
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post #1301 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by am_dew View Post
Thanks. When I first set up my system, I adjusted the sub volume slightly a couple different times trying to get the sub level as close to 0 dB as possible. But I will try again, this time raising it so that YPAO sets it to -3 or -4 dB and see if that affects the center level.
I adjusted the level on the sub up to about 75% and ran YPAO again. This time it set my sub to -5 but my center is still at +10. Shall I try raising the sub up even more?

Update: I raised the sub up even more and re-ran YPAO again. It set my sub to -8.5 this time and the center is still +10. It seems adjusting raising the sub level does not affect the other speaker levels as the other speaker levels are also the same as they were before raising the sub level.

Last edited by am_dew; 06-13-2014 at 05:14 PM.
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post #1302 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by am_dew View Post
I adjusted the level on the sub up to about 75% and ran YPAO again. This time it set my sub to -5 but my center is still at +10. Shall I try raising the sub up even more?
I don't think changing the sub will help if the problem is that the front L/R are much more senstive than the center.

Try running the manual test tones to see if the center sounds like it's playing the tones less loud than the fronts (even better use an SPL meter to check). If the center is playing less loud at +10, then you'll have to manually reduce all the other speaker levels until they match the center volume with the test tones.

It's also possible that the center is damaged in some way. You can probably tell that if it sounds very different from the fronts with the test tones (I once had a blown tweeter, and it was obvious with the test tones because it made a much duller sound than the other speakers).
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post #1303 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
I don't think changing the sub will help if the problem is that the front L/R are much more senstive than the center.

Try running the manual test tones to see if the center sounds like it's playing the tones less loud than the fronts (even better use an SPL meter to check). If the center is playing less loud at +10, then you'll have to manually reduce all the other speaker levels until they match the center volume with the test tones.

It's also possible that the center is damaged in some way. You can probably tell that if it sounds very different from the fronts with the test tones (I once had a blown tweeter, and it was obvious with the test tones because it made a much duller sound than the other speakers).
Thanks. I believe that it's an issue where the fronts are much more sensitive than the center. As an experiment, I moved the calibration mic about half the distance closer to the fronts and center and then re-ran YPAO. It set the center at +3 and the front's 3-4 db less than they were when I had the mic in my normal listening position.

I don't think my center is damaged -- it's very new and sounds good with lots of detail. I did do the test tones thing and the center does sound audibly duller than the fronts so I am sure that plays into it as well. These fronts were built by my dad in the early-mid 60's and using now heritage, circa 60-70's JBL D130 15" drivers (these same drivers were used throughout the Grateful Dead's infamous "Wall of Sound") and matching JBL tweeters. In their time, these were awesome speakers and they still sound great in a traditional stereo set up, but, as I have found out, they are not very matched to my other modern-day speakers. But, I'm not parting with them any time soon.

Last edited by am_dew; 06-13-2014 at 05:52 PM.
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post #1304 of 1646 Old 06-13-2014, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by am_dew View Post
Thanks. I believe that it's an issue where the fronts are much more sensitive than the center. As an experiment, I moved the calibration mic about half the distance closer to the fronts and center and then re-ran YPAO. It set the center at +3 and the front's 3-4 db less than they were when I had the mic in my normal listening position.

I don't think my center is damaged -- it's very new and sounds good with lots of detail. I did do the test tones thing and the center does sound audibly duller than the fronts so I am sure that plays into it as well. These fronts were built by my dad in the early-mid 60's and using now heritage, circa 60-70's JBL D130 15" drivers (these same drivers were used throughout the Grateful Dead's infamous "Wall of Sound") and matching JBL tweeters. In their time, these were awesome speakers and they still sound great in a traditional stereo set up, but, as I have found out, they are not very matched to my other modern-day speakers. But, I'm not parting with them any time soon.
And just to add one more bit of info...

I had a Polk center channel before I bought the Klipsch and it too was set to +10 by YPAO, so again I think it's the mis-matched fronts that are causing this.
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post #1305 of 1646 Old 06-14-2014, 05:48 AM
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Since +10 is the maximum level trim, you can't tell if YPAO actually wanted more than +10. So I would still check the manual test tones (ideally with an SPL meter) to see if the center is playing as loud as the fronts.
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post #1306 of 1646 Old 06-14-2014, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
Since +10 is the maximum level trim, you can't tell if YPAO actually wanted more than +10. So I would still check the manual test tones (ideally with an SPL meter) to see if the center is playing as loud as the fronts.
Will do. Can anyone recommend a reasonably accurate SPL meter for under USD$50 ? There seem to be a lot of them out there on Amazon.
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post #1307 of 1646 Old 06-14-2014, 07:08 AM
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Will do. Can anyone recommend a reasonably accurate SPL meter for under USD$50 ? There seem to be a lot of them out there on Amazon.
One of the few things radio shack is still good for: http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...uctId=12680845

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post #1308 of 1646 Old 06-14-2014, 07:14 AM
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One of the few things radio shack is still good for: www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12680845
Thanks. That one is not well reviewed but I will consider it.
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post #1309 of 1646 Old 06-14-2014, 07:19 AM
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Thanks. That one is not well reviewed but I will consider it.
They used to have an analog one that was the go-to unit for things like this, but I couldn't find it on their website. Maybe is is no longer made.
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post #1310 of 1646 Old 06-14-2014, 04:19 PM
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I see there is a firmware update.
Firmware Update Version 1.51
1. Improves stability of AirPlay playback
2. Includes other functional improvement



Any idea what the "other functional improvement" might be?
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post #1311 of 1646 Old 06-14-2014, 06:41 PM
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Hi everyone. I was reading Nyall Mellor's blogs over at Acoustic Frontiers and he stated, "Note that the low frequency effects signal is nearly always internally set to be to be 10dB louder than that for the speakers so that the end user's life is simplified and the subwoofer is calibrated to 75dB rather than the 85dB one might expect." Is this true for the rx-v375 or do I need to calibrate it to 85db using the internal pink noise. Thanks for your time. Here is a link to the page. http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/hom...eference-level
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post #1312 of 1646 Old 06-14-2014, 07:33 PM
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I see there is a firmware update.
Firmware Update Version 1.51
1. Improves stability of AirPlay playback
2. Includes other functional improvement



Any idea what the "other functional improvement" might be?
No idea. Pretty much every update says that.
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post #1313 of 1646 Old 06-15-2014, 06:06 AM
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Hi everyone. I was reading Nyall Mellor's blogs over at Acoustic Frontiers and he stated, "Note that the low frequency effects signal is nearly always internally set to be to be 10dB louder than that for the speakers so that the end user's life is simplified and the subwoofer is calibrated to 75dB rather than the 85dB one might expect." Is this true for the rx-v375 or do I need to calibrate it to 85db using the internal pink noise. Thanks for your time. Here is a link to the page. http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/hom...eference-level
With Yamaha receivers the internal test tones for all channels (sub included) should be calibrated to 75dB with master volume at 0.
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post #1314 of 1646 Old 06-15-2014, 09:55 AM
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Wish Yamaha would add support for the new Amazon Prime Music.
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post #1315 of 1646 Old 06-16-2014, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Virtually every respected person at AVS says that biamping will make NO difference unless you disable the crossover in the speaker. People hear what they want.
Then I'm curious as to why speaker manufactures continue to build speakers with four posts instead of two or why Yamaha offers the bi-amp option on some of their receivers if it makes no difference.
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post #1316 of 1646 Old 06-16-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Virtually every respected person at AVS says that biamping will make NO difference unless you disable the crossover in the speaker. People hear what they want.
Then I'm curious as to why speaker manufactures continue to build speakers with four posts instead of two or why Yamaha offers the bi-amp option on some of their receivers if it makes no difference.
So am I.
It may provide a nearly imperceptible difference if the situation is just right but I think marketing is the big reason. If a company stopped offering them that way many people who dont know better might consider them inferior and shy away from buying them. Some people will hear an improvement from biamping just because they think they should. Ignorance and perception drives lots of buying decisions.

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post #1317 of 1646 Old 06-16-2014, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
Hi everyone. I was reading Nyall Mellor's blogs over at Acoustic Frontiers and he stated, "Note that the low frequency effects signal is nearly always internally set to be to be 10dB louder than that for the speakers so that the end user's life is simplified and the subwoofer is calibrated to 75dB rather than the 85dB one might expect." Is this true for the rx-v375 or do I need to calibrate it to 85db using the internal pink noise. Thanks for your time. Here is a link to the page. http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/hom...eference-level
With Yamaha receivers the internal test tones for all channels (sub included) should be calibrated to 75dB with master volume at 0.
Thanks, man. I set my spl levels correctly. Will this affect the p.eq?
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post #1318 of 1646 Old 06-16-2014, 01:12 PM
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No, adjusting the speaker levels will not affect the YPAO PEQ filters.
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post #1319 of 1646 Old 06-16-2014, 01:17 PM
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No, adjusting the speaker levels will not affect the YPAO PEQ filters.
Good. I watched Star Wars Episode I after balancing the SPL and the movie felt much more enveloping. Thanks again for the quick response.
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post #1320 of 1646 Old 06-16-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
Hi everyone. I was reading Nyall Mellor's blogs over at Acoustic Frontiers and he stated, "Note that the low frequency effects signal is nearly always internally set to be to be 10dB louder than that for the speakers so that the end user's life is simplified and the subwoofer is calibrated to 75dB rather than the 85dB one might expect." Is this true for the rx-v375 or do I need to calibrate it to 85db using the internal pink noise. Thanks for your time. Here is a link to the page. http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/hom...eference-level
With Yamaha receivers the internal test tones for all channels (sub included) should be calibrated to 75dB with master volume at 0.
Can anyone recommend a good guide to manually calibrating a 5.1 system with a SPL meter?
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