Yamaha RX-V 75 Series owners thread - Page 67 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1981 of 2009 Old 01-18-2015, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
What's reflected sound control? Also, are there any other differences between my model and yamaha's best with regards to YPAO?

A side question is what is the point of direct mode, which supposedly reduces electrical noise in the amp to enjoy hi-fi sound? Those are their words not mine.
RSC measures more parameter and therefore supposedly does a better job. Some high end models eq the subwoofer.
Less processing means closer to the original sound.
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post #1982 of 2009 Old 01-18-2015, 12:40 PM
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Is eq'ing the speakers generally a good thing or bad thing vs. letting them provide their native frequency response (eq off or through)?

Also, the pure direct or direct mode I'm referring to (name varies based on model level and my 375 doesn't have it at all) is not the straight mode which does zero processing to the incoming audio signal, it's something else that turns off the front panel on the avr and the video overlay/menu on the tv and disables some features too in the name of reducing electrical noise/interference in the avr to allow the user to better enjoy hi-fi sound. I don't know if it really makes a difference or not since I don't have that mode on my 375, which is why I'm asking.

Also, regarding dynamic range compression in the avr, when watching movies either bd (lossless audio) or netflix streaming (with dd+ 5.1 audio), would using standard over maximum ever be desirable if the difference between the loudest sounds and dialogue seemed to be too far apart to listen at a reasonable volume or if the viewing environment was noisier than usual (for example it's raining pretty hard right now where I live and so I'm finding the dd+ 5.1 audio on netflix streaming to have dialogue a bit quiet unless I push the louder sounds to the point my ears start hurting a bit)?

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post #1983 of 2009 Old 01-18-2015, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Is eq'ing the speakers generally a good thing or bad thing vs. letting them provide their native frequency response (eq off or through)?
As I've said it is really more your room and your selected speaker placement within that room, both of which have PROFOUND effects on the overall frequency response, that you are EQing, hardly the speaker by itself.


Direct modes were invented decades ago when real cheapo tone control circuits added hiss in some scenarios so people needed a quick way to completely bypass that circuit if they weren't actually using the tone controls. [Leaving the knobs in the center, 0 dB position still had hiss, you see] Then as tone controls got better, to the point that they didn't really introduce any hiss, the companies were afraid to remove the "direct" buttons because some customers would think they were being ripped off and a feature had been removed for cost control. In this day and age using direct or pure direct, which means no YPAO EQ, etc. is rather silly IMHO. Many audiophiles shun all forms of tone controls and room correction, even the ones they've never tried. They weren't so hot in the early years but not using them today seems silly to me.


"would using standard over maximum ever be desirable if the difference between the loudest sounds and dialogue seemed to be too far apart to listen at a reasonable volume or if the viewing environment was noisier than usual"


Yes, those are exactly the sorts of times when you use it. When you need to raise the volume of the quiet parts, like dialog over your background room noise, while simultaneously reducing the loud level of the BANGS and BOOMS in the movie.

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post #1984 of 2009 Old 01-18-2015, 01:30 PM
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Just to clarify, the pure direct mode has nothing to do with the eq modes/settings. I should have not mentioned the two so close to one another as the names used by Yamaha can be counterintuitive or similar names for very different things. The pure direct mode just minimizes avr functions so it can focus on being an amp.

Setting the EQ from PEQ to Off/Through is what applies no correction/modification to what the speakers output in their given position and room.

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post #1985 of 2009 Old 01-18-2015, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Just to clarify, the pure direct mode has nothing to do with the eq modes/settings. I should have not mentioned the two so close to one another as the names used by Yamaha can be counterintuitive or similar names for very different things. The pure direct mode just minimizes avr functions so it can focus on being an amp.

Pure Direct also bypasses all EQ, regardless of which EQ mode you have selected.
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post #1986 of 2009 Old 01-18-2015, 01:39 PM
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Pure Direct is supposed to do absolutely nothing other than amplify the source signal.
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post #1987 of 2009 Old 01-18-2015, 03:46 PM
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Interesting, the owners manual for the 675/775 said nothing specific about eq but I guess it was implied when it said some features would be disabled.

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post #1988 of 2009 Old 01-18-2015, 05:29 PM
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From another thread but appropriate for this one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I once had a Yamaha integrated amp that had tone bypass, source direct, CD direct, processor direct, DSP bypass, and Pure direct, not to mention you could de-couple the power amp from the pre amp by removing the metal horseshoes on the back and send signals straight to the power amp.

You can never have too many "directs".
"My unit is better than yours because I have more directs."
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post #1989 of 2009 Old 01-21-2015, 12:28 PM
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Is it true changing the subwoofer crossover on the avr will affect speakers levels? In other words, after running YPAO if I want to try a different crossover setting than YPAO chose, would doing so mess with the speaker levels set by YPAO? I was reading an article on audioholics that said changing the speaker size or crossover settings could greatly affect speaker levels.

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post #1990 of 2009 Old 01-21-2015, 02:13 PM
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I ask because bumping crossover up to 90 Hz made everything sound punchier and clearer at the same time. I also tried 100 Hz, which was a bit off and 110 Hz, which was further off. I didn't bother with anything higher since 90 Hz seemed to be the sweet spot. I didn't go below 80 Hz (and for the record YPAO always chooses 80 Hz) as I doubt the HTIB surrounds would fare well under 80 Hz.
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post #1991 of 2009 Old 01-21-2015, 02:16 PM
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I was surprised that simply going from a crossover setting of 80 Hz to 90 Hz could make such an audible and positive difference.
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post #1992 of 2009 Old 01-21-2015, 02:19 PM
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And I'm using the BD version of Sin City 2: A Dame To Kill For as my reference. It has DTS-HD Master Audio.

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post #1993 of 2009 Old 01-21-2015, 02:30 PM
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Hi,

I'm trying to see if I can use the RX-V475 as an audio source for a audio matrix switch. I've connected the RCA Audio Out from the receiver to Input 1 on the Matrix Switch, but no audio comes through. I've tested the input with another audio source and it works. It also works using the Tuner on the receiver. Has anyone been able to output Pandora on the RX-V475 to the audio output?

Thanks.

- Evan
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post #1994 of 2009 Old 01-22-2015, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Is it true changing the subwoofer crossover on the avr will affect speakers levels? In other words, after running YPAO if I want to try a different crossover setting than YPAO chose, would doing so mess with the speaker levels set by YPAO? I was reading an article on audioholics that said changing the speaker size or crossover settings could greatly affect speaker levels.
Link? I can't imagine why it would make a huge difference.

FWIW, I have my crossover set to 100 as I've got a huge suckout around 80-90 from my front speakers, which the subs are able to compensate for. Nothing wrong with tweaking that for best sound.
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post #1995 of 2009 Old 01-22-2015, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eb10005 View Post
I'm trying to see if I can use the RX-V475 as an audio source for a audio matrix switch. I've connected the RCA Audio Out from the receiver to Input 1 on the Matrix Switch, but no audio comes through. I've tested the input with another audio source and it works. It also works using the Tuner on the receiver. Has anyone been able to output Pandora on the RX-V475 to the audio output?

Audio Out won't work for digital sources. It works for analog sources, plus internal sources like the tuner. I thought it would also work for network sources, but if you've tried it and it doesn't work on the 475 then I guess not.
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post #1996 of 2009 Old 01-22-2015, 08:16 AM
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post #1997 of 2009 Old 01-22-2015, 08:17 AM
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"Be sure to run setup test tones and recheck all of the speaker levels (preferably with an SPL meter) when you make any changes. Changing the Crossover or a speaker Size setting can greatly affect the levels coming from the loudspeaker."
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post #1998 of 2009 Old 01-22-2015, 10:56 AM
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Audioholics use of the word "greatly" in that quote is debatable. I think what they really are trying to stress is that whenever you change anything in your system, be it speakers, speaker placement, speaker angle/tilt/toe-in, room, room décor, x-overs, sizes ("small"/"large"), subs, etc. it potentially can make profound changes to one's system, including individual spkr. level, so redoing calibration is in order. I agree.
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post #1999 of 2009 Old 01-22-2015, 11:18 AM
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The issue with redoing YPAO is that it will set the crossover back to 80 Hz.
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post #2000 of 2009 Old 01-22-2015, 12:21 PM
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And what's wrong with 80 Hz? It's the correct frequency for almost everyone, in fact the calibration experts, THX, correctly use it as the their standard for all receivers that get their stamp of approval, and it is inevitably what you are experiencing every time you visit a THX certified, professional theater.


There is a common misconception that the selection of "small" vs "large" should be based on one's speaker size [gosh, I wonder how the general public came to form that incorrect assumption?] and that the proper crossover frequency should be based on attempting to keep as much of the bass reproduction range as possible in the front mains [perhaps because they are huge, expensive, have a greater pride of ownership factor?], and that the dedicated device, optimized for this duty alone, i.e. the subwoofer, with a markedly better range of optimal placement considerations should only get a tiny sliver of the bass frequencies. Wrong! [We wish we could send even more of the frequency range to the sub(s), however there is a problem that frequencies above 80 Hz or so, with music, start to become directionally localizable; 80 Hz is the best compromise.] The x-over is instead correctly determined by the overall room response, not what speakers you have and how low they go, on paper.


I have no reason to believe the computer inside Yamaha receivers makes this selection poorly and many people in the know suggest that if it does select a lower frequency, say 60 Hz, that it should get bumped up to 80Hz to optimize the principal of bass management and improve system dynamics since the amps for the front mains, and the front speakers' woofers, are given a lesser burden and can therefore pump out louder peaks for the frequency range that they are responsible for.


P.S. Changing the crossover from 60 Hz to 80 Hz isn't going to have huge impact on the levels changing, so I personally wouldn't worry too much about that. Humans have a decreased ability to discern level changes in the low bass compared to how well they do at say 3-4 kHz, anyways. Being a dB or two off isn't a big deal down there.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..


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post #2001 of 2009 Old 01-22-2015, 01:05 PM
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Well, I'm trying to turn it up a bit from 80 Hz, not down. Also, this is just a temporary tweak to make the low end sound better until I can get my hands on the Dayton Audio SUB-1200. Right now the 50 watt RMS 8-inch sub I'm using makes the low end sound a bit flat with the crossover at 80 Hz. I think 90 Hz sounds quite a bit better but I'm still double checking this with each BD movie I see. I suppose I could also try leaving it at 80 Hz and raising the SW level on the avr a bit (it's at -5.5 dB right now according to YPAO).
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post #2002 of 2009 Old 01-22-2015, 01:17 PM
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Yes, I would be more inclined to change the sub's level, rather than x-over. Since you seem to suggest this is just a temporary setup, until you get the nicer sub, that's even more reason to not sweat this too much.


When you have a modest sub (only 50 watts RMS isn't very much for a sub, as you already seem to know) you want to help them out as much as possible. Although placement for big beefy subs is debatable, when it comes to small, less powerful ones I think giving them as much room gain as humanly possible is in order. This means placing them in a corner, ideally the front corner you sit closest to.
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post #2003 of 2009 Old 01-22-2015, 02:03 PM
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Well, I'm currently watching Maze Runner BD version and I'm going back and forth between 80 Hz and 90 Hz and the bass intensity seems to go up at 90 Hz by an easily audible amount. I then boosted the SW level at the avr by 2.5 dB (still negative numbers so I'm fine) and rechecked 80 vs 90 Hz and 90 Hz still sounds better by a noticeable amount.

Regarding sub placement it is in the front right corner of the room at a 45 degree angle. It's as close to the corner as possible with just enough breathing room for the power cord and sub cable.

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post #2004 of 2009 Old 01-22-2015, 02:09 PM
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Also, it's placed directly on my carpeted floor if that matters. It has no feet aside from small circular stickers it came with for hard surfaces, so it's flush with the carpet as opposed to being slightly higher. It's front firing with a port on the right side.

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post #2005 of 2009 Old 01-22-2015, 02:48 PM
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Did some more tweaking and watching and 90 Hz crossover plus a 2.0 dB subwoofer level boost really seems to make the low end sound much better. At 80 Hz and no boost the bass output was disappointing a lot of the time with some infrequent exceptions.

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post #2006 of 2009 Unread Today, 02:22 AM
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Hi there,

Does anyone know what the updated firmware 1.60 fixes\adds? I cannot find a changelog on Yamahas website.

I have an rx v775.

Yamaha RX V775 AV Receiver with 5.1 setup:Tannoy Mercury v4 fronts, Dali Zensor 1 rears, Kef IQ2c centre with a Maudaunt Short Alumni 6 sub. Philips 47pfl6007 with 2 sided ambilight and modded firmware motion -pixel precise to pixel perfect.

Sony s760 bluray player, fat PS3, Virgin TIVO 1TB and OpenELEC 5.0 HTPC on a HP Microserver N54L with 4tb storage and 6gb RAM.
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post #2007 of 2009 Unread Today, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by vulgartrendkill View Post
Hi there,

Does anyone know what the updated firmware 1.60 fixes\adds? I cannot find a changelog on Yamahas website.

I have an rx v775.
http://download.yamaha.com/search/de...asset_id=63876

This firmware
1. Improves connectivity of network music streaming services

TV Samsung UN65HU8550FXZA TS02, X-10 lighting, IR543 Powerhouse Command Ce
AVR Yamaha TSR-6750WA
BR Player Sony S6200
STB Dish 211K
SPEAKERS JM lab speakers
REMOTE CONTROL Harmony Ultimate remote

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post #2008 of 2009 Unread Today, 12:39 PM
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I had to put it the crossover back to 80 Hz since 90 Hz introduced a significant level of boominess that caused my ears to hurt after a while. Doing so did seem to weaken the low end despite the 2 dB boost so maybe I need to up that a bit more to compensate.

On a side note the small satellites that came with the Yamaha HTiB are only rated down to 90 Hz, which is a bit troubling considering what I mentioned above.
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post #2009 of 2009 Unread Today, 12:40 PM
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And to clarify, I'm using them as my surrounds.
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