Yamaha RX-V 75 Series owners thread - Page 86 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2551 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 06:11 AM
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I'm glad for the experts opinions. They've been great starting points for me as I'm finding out what works best in my setting. And like I've said before, I'm absolutely loving playing with all the settings and seeing what they do, how they effect everything else, etc. Can't wait until I win the SVS contest and can get an upgrade already
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post #2552 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 07:11 AM
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I think if you prefer more bass optimizing subwoofer placement and increasing subwoofer gain is a better approach than setting the front speakers to large and turning on extra bass. Also, consider adding a second subwoofer if nulls are a problem with music or any content with sporadic frequencies.

I once tried extra bass on my setup just out of curiosity while watching a bd movie (Sin City 2 I think) and while extra bass did result, it was boomy and muddy and exaggerated to the point of no longer sounding realistic. Granted I only have mid sized bookshelves as fronts, but it was pretty clear that extra bass was a setting best left off.
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post #2553 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 09:05 AM
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Yamaha RX-V 75 Series owners thread

I concur. My front mains are towers, with capability down to 40Hz or so, but not reliable, and a little dip near 130Hz. Bass in some music was "muddy," and by that catchword I mean the lowest freqs weren't well defined.

Certainly, Extra Bass is only going to be pleasing with speakers that go down below the cross over freq, e.g. SVS Prime towers. Smaller speakers or bookshelf speakers, it just won't sound right. Also, it destroys any efficiency or clarity at (*edit*) mid-bass freqs that those speakers enjoy[1] if you take the bass burden off them with bass management. Play something like Holly Cole's "Train Song," Chris Isaak's "Dancin'" (The Baja Sessions), Michael Brooks "Ultramarine, "Matobo" from James Newton Howard's OST to The Interpreter, and it should become clear.

[1] That is, any mid-bass efficiency that is gained by removing lower-bass content to a subwoofer.
IOW IMHO ... interesting option, limited effectiveness.


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post #2554 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 10:41 AM
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Also, it destroys any efficiency or clarity at upper freqs that those speakers enjoy if you take the bass burden off them with bass management./
That I would like proof of. Graphs or some sort of evidence other than it just sounds better to you.
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post #2555 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 10:49 AM
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I'm trying to make a graph in mspaint that shows the difference in sound between anything vs the crappy tv speakers that I had prior. Unfortunately the graph was blank because everything was off the chart on the awesomeness side.
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post #2556 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
With those kinds of credentials he must know what sounds good to me in my room with my equipment with my music and my taste and my moods. I will do everything he says regardless of what I may personally prefer.
By all means, fellows, if accuracy, faithfulness to the original artist's intended tonal balance, and high fidelity to the original aren't your goals, then fiddling with all the bass controls until you reach your desired sound is the way to go. Intentionally introducing a bump in an otherwise flat, accurate, neutral frequency response, such as when one uses the overlapping "extra bass" mode (described as "terrible" by sub expert Chris Kyriakakis) is often preferred by many listeners, especially when they don't have access to the original source as a comparative reference [the musicians playing live] nor have a goal of replicating that exact sound as best possible, with the highest fidelity, aka truthfulness, to the original sound.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #2557 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 11:43 AM
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Yamaha RX-V 75 Series owners thread

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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
That I would like proof of. Graphs or some sort of evidence other than it just sounds better to you.

Sorry, I'm proofless as well as possibly clueless. Just based on Hardesty[1] and others (various Audioholics articles that I was compelled [by a higher power seemingly] to read ) asserting that offloading bass to a sub will make life easier, more efficient, perhaps sweeter sounding for main speakers. Does anyone have scientific evidence? Um, I can think of a former Microsoft exec on one o' these forums who can likely bury us under authoritative evidence and white papers....

[1]Subscription and sign-in req'd to view. Worth it IMHO!

Count me in, I'd love to glance at some studies of response curves of speakers with and without an external high pass filter on the signal. Anyone got a source?


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Last edited by ChromeJob; 04-30-2015 at 06:01 PM. Reason: links to articles, and some whimsy
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post #2558 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
By all means, fellows, if accuracy, faithfulness to the original artist's intended tonal balance, and high fidelity to the original aren't your goals, then fiddling with all the bass controls until you reach your desired sound is the way to go. Intentionally introducing a bump in an otherwise flat, accurate, neutral frequency response, such as when one uses the overlapping "extra bass" mode (described as "terrible" by sub expert Chris Kyriakakis) is often preferred by many listeners, especially when they don't have access to the original source as a comparative reference [the musicians playing live] nor have a goal of replicating that exact sound as best possible, with the highest fidelity, aka truthfulness, to the original sound.
I agree with you zillch, but I will say that for myself, I calibrated to a flat +/-3dB from 12Hz to 20,000Hz and listened to it for a couple weeks, then added a 3dB 0.5Q shelf from 80Hz on down and much prefer the slightly elevated bass from the shelf as opposed to the flat response as I felt the flat response was "anemic" for most everything I listened to. Granted, 3dB isn't much, but it made a slightly noticeable difference to the response for me and I'm happy with how it sounds.

However, I only decided to do this after I calibrated to "flat" in REW and lived with it for a couple weeks. I know what "reference" sounds like and I personally made the decision to listen slightly off from reference based upon my preference.

I would advise people to calibrate to a flat freq response and then decide how they like it and if they want to modify it. But that's just my 2 cents with a few hours of REW fun and a miniDSP 2x4 for sub EQ.
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post #2559 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 01:37 PM
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Which brings a good point. Very few people actually have a flat, accurate and neutral response. Certainly YPAO, Audyssey, etc will not provide one. So for some a bass bump might actually help with a null that they don't even realize they have and bring them closer to flat. Assuming that setting speakers to large is going to ruin everyone's bass without exception is ridiculous.
Absolutes are few and far between in audio/video.
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post #2560 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fredxr2d2 View Post
I agree with you zillch, but I will say that for myself, I calibrated to a flat +/-3dB from 12Hz to 20,000Hz and listened to it for a couple weeks, then added a 3dB 0.5Q shelf from 80Hz on down and much prefer the slightly elevated bass.
What you just described doing, however, is not similar to the "terrible" response curve generated by intentionally overlapping the subwoofer range with the mains' range, ie "double bass", "LFE + Main", or "Extra Bass" as Yamaha calls it. When one uses this mode [which is forbidden in THX products in THX certified mode, by the way] you aren't actually "boosting the bass", as the name implies, but are more specifically boosting a particular frequency or rather a very narrow band of frequencies where instead of having a proper division of labor, both the sub and the mains are allowed to reproduce the same overlapped area, hence an artificial, roughly +3 dB hump right there where they overlap, usually just below the crossover frequency, so let's say centered around 45 to 65 Hz or so {assuming one is using the common 80Hz sub crossover suggested by many and locked at on THX certified gear}.


What you've done is elevate the entire very low bass evenly, gradually, and smoothly [I don't have a problem with that]; whereas what the "extra bass" mode actually does is insert an artificial bump, a peak, at a certain frequency in the otherwise flat frequency response. Sure, there's a remote possibility that one happens to have 3 dB dip in their room response at that exact same frequency and Q, where adding this artificial peak to the response might make sense, but the odds are unlikely. Give people almost any kind of a "bass boost" button, however, and ask them if its sound alteration is "beneficial" [without a reference for them to listen to in order to establish what the original sound truly sounds like] and they will almost always say "yes".


Being an audio dealer for over two decades I can recall some audio gear over the years which actually inserted a somewhat similar low bass bump, at the push of a button, however it was properly placed a little lower in frequency than what this "overlap mode" of the Yamaha and other AVRs do. The Allison Electronic Subwoofer was one [don't let the name fool you, it was just an EQ box] and the NAD feature called "Bass EQ" did pretty much the same thing:

Source: http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/nad/7100.htm

In both cases Allison and NAD picked a boost which corrected a common roll off characteristic of typical, small speakers of the day, in theory lessening the need to add a subwoofer to one's system. [The frequency this occurred at was variable on the Allison unit.]

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #2561 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 02:52 PM
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I maintain that raising sw level in the avr is the easiest and simplest way to increase low bass frequencies without screwing up the overall sound balance completely like extra bass can do.
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post #2562 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
Also, it destroys any efficiency or clarity at upper freqs that those speakers enjoy if you take the bass burden off them with bass management
Do you mean disabling bass management for the front speakers is bad for mid and upper frequencies? It sounds like you are saying the opposite unless it's a typo.
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post #2563 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
What you just described doing, however, is not similar to the "terrible" response curve generated by intentionally overlapping the subwoofer range with the mains' range, ie "double bass", "LFE + Main", or "Extra Bass" as Yamaha calls it. When one uses this mode [which is forbidden in THX products in THX certified mode, by the way] you aren't actually "boosting the bass", as the name implies, but are more specifically boosting a particular frequency or rather a very narrow band of frequencies where instead of having a proper division of labor, both the sub and the mains are allowed to reproduce the same overlapped area, hence an artificial, roughly +3 dB hump right there where they overlap, usually just below the crossover frequency, so let's say centered around 45 to 65 Hz or so {assuming one is using the common 80Hz sub crossover suggested by many and locked at on THX certified gear}.


What you've done is elevate the entire very low bass evenly, gradually, and smoothly [I don't have a problem with that]; whereas what the "extra bass" mode actually does is insert an artificial bump, a peak, at a certain frequency in the otherwise flat frequency response. Sure, there's a remote possibility that one happens to have 3 dB dip in their room response at that exact same frequency and Q, where adding this artificial peak to the response might make sense, but the odds are unlikely. Give people almost any kind of a "bass boost" button, however, and ask them if its sound alteration is "beneficial" [without a reference for them to listen to in order to establish what the original sound truly sounds like] and they will almost always say "yes".


Being an audio dealer for over two decades I can recall some audio gear over the years which actually inserted a somewhat similar low bass bump, at the push of a button, however it was properly placed a little lower in frequency than what this "overlap mode" of the Yamaha and other AVRs do. The Allison Electronic Subwoofer was one [don't let the name fool you, it was just an EQ box] and the NAD feature called "Bass EQ" did pretty much the same thing:

Source: http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/nad/7100.htm

In both cases Allison and NAD picked a boost which corrected a common roll off characteristic of typical, small speakers of the day, in theory lessening the need to add a subwoofer to one's system. [The frequency this occurred at was variable on the Allison unit.]
The crossover in the AVR is not a hard crossover so there is always an overlap between the speakers and subwoofer.
If one was able to identify this +3 hump and eq it out would it then be ok to set all speakers to Large?
Isn't THX certification guidelines strictly for 5.1/7.1 material? What about 2.0 material?
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post #2564 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 06:12 PM
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Trying to figure out if my AVR died.....TWC just came out this morning to switch my cable over from DirectTV.....I had volume this morning. I cut on my projector now , No volume & when i look at my AVR main screen it say Amp Off.....Does this mean my AVR could have possible died ?

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post #2565 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 06:50 PM
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Yamaha RX-V 75 Series owners thread

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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Quote:
Also, it destroys any efficiency or clarity at upper freqs that those speakers enjoy if you take the bass burden off them with bass management
Do you mean disabling bass management for the front speakers is bad for mid and upper frequencies? It sounds like you are saying the opposite unless it's a typo.
Yep, I was unclear. Blame the Logitech iPad Mini keyboard for toddler-sized fingers.

No, not "bad for mid and upper freqs" (or, in what I meant, mid-bass freqs just upstairs from the low-bass that the sub would otherwise accept with bass management).

I'll explain (or die trying). From what I've been reading from those with more experience, more audio engineering savvy, more technical knowledge, or any combination of those, is ... when you use bass management to shift low frequency production to a self-powered subwoofer, a few things theoretically happen. The main speakers are relieved of having to make those freqs, so can focus on freqs they are more effective at producing, even if those mains can produce that low bass below the cross over. Do they also sound better? Well, that's what Bond007 was asking for corroboration, any measurements indicating a change in speaker response based on the high pass filter applied. Also, the AVR (amp) no longer has to produce those low freqs with its total reservoir of amperage; it passes those freqs to the sub as line level information. So available power is now dedicated to higher frequency information. Yippy skippy. (I'm skeptical of how significant this is. At the THX-recommended cross over of 80Hz, just how significant can this be? But if you have better-than-average bookshelves, and a cross over set at, say, 150Hz, maybe the effect is more pronounced.)

I'm paraphrasing what I've learned from reading others, and my summary isn't as concise or illustrative as the others. Just my water cooler pitch of what I've been led to believe recently.

Now. Take away those benefits, with "LFE+Main" or "Extra Bass" or "Oompah-pah Happens" or whatever they call it. All those supposed benefits are now eliminated just as if you had disabled the subwoofer. Sure, now you've got glorious, delicious low frequency bass oozing out of many more speakers.

I'm betting there are other ways to get the same or better result, time and money notwithstanding. Raise the cross over and install one or more really bad-a** subs. Use a mid-bass module, use its high pass filter and connect the mains to its output, and let the sub be a sub with a low cross over. ... At this point, I think these are configurations meant to trick or fool the RX-Vx75. I'm sure there are better AVRs that let you do this stuff from a central point (i.e. support for 2 or more subs with multiple, independent sub cross over points ).

Did I do better there...?

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V: Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Yamaha DVD-S550.


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post #2566 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 07:23 PM
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The crossover in the AVR is not a hard crossover so there is always an overlap between the speakers and subwoofer.
But that overlap has to be quite specific if the summation of the sub's sound and the main speakers (their combined sound , shown below in red) is to yield a proper, flat, neutral frequency response as heard in the room:


If the LPF and HPF of any crossover, sub or otherwise, doesn't overlap enough, there will be a dip in the combined frequency response. If they overlap too much, as is the case with using "extra bass", then there will be an artificial peak in the combined frequency response. For example:

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #2567 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 07:26 PM
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If one was able to identify this +3 hump and eq it out would it then be ok to set all speakers to Large?
The hump charachteristics will vary in width, slope, etc., and I used +3 dB as just an example, but it seems like a waste of an EQ band which could be put to better use doing other corrections since this is so easily avoidable in the first place simply by not using "extra bass", but I guess yes, it could theoretically be corrected for with a parametric EQ.


When you set speakers to "large" you aren't using bass management, which I think is a significant setback. BM is one of the main advantages to even using powered subwoofers. It is standardly used in the pro market and pretty much every single movie theater out there.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #2568 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Isn't THX certification guidelines strictly for 5.1/7.1 material? What about 2.0 material?
Every single THX certified AVR I've ever owned or sold locked the user to using the same sub settings for all surround modes, including plain Jane stereo. Since these settings are dictated by the room, the speaker placement within the room, and the speakers themselves, and since these things don't change from one surround mode to another, I can't see how one could consider this an inconvenience.

To the best of my knowledge there has never been a THX certified stereo only receiver.

Here's more info/details on THX certified receivers but don't take this as a blanket endorsement from me, I'm merely relaying the info:
http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-ent...ied-receivers/

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #2569 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
The hump charachteristics will vary in width, slope, etc., and I used +3 dB as just an example, but it seems like a waste of an EQ band which could be put to better use doing other corrections since this is so easily avoidable in the first place simply by not using "extra bass", but I guess yes, it could theoretically be corrected for with a parametric EQ.


When you set speakers to "large" you aren't using bass management, which I think is a significant setback. BM is one of the main advantages to even using powered subwoofers. It is standardly used in the pro market and pretty much every single movie theater out there.
Then what exactly is "bass management"?
When speakers are set to large then they receive a full range signal. But the crossover is still in effect for the subwoofer. Nothing above the crossover is sent to the sub. Isn't that an important part of bass management?
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post #2570 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Every single THX certified AVR I've ever owned or sold locked the user to using the same sub settings for all surround modes, including plain Jane stereo. Since these settings are dictated by the room, the speaker placement within the room, and the speakers themselves, and since these things don't change from one surround mode to another, I can't see how one could consider this an inconvenience.

To the best of my knowledge there has never been a THX certified stereo only receiver.

Here's more info/details on THX certified receivers but don't take this as a blanket endorsement from me, I'm merely relaying the info:
http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-ent...ied-receivers/
Since 2.0 material doesn't have an LFE channel (.1) it seems conceivable that the optimum settings for it may be different than surround material with an LFE channel.
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post #2571 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 10:07 PM
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Then what exactly is "bass management"?
First let's define LFE. Although many people (even the gear makers) misuse the term, strictly speaking the LFE channel is the dedicated, low frequency effect channel (well, since it is only one tenth the frequency range of the other 5, we don't even call it an entire "channel" and instead call it a tenth of one, i.e. the ".1" in "5.1"). The raw 5.1 ch signal coming out of a 5.1 movie or TV show may have 5 full range channels with lots of low bass in each, plus the dedicated .1 ch which is never allowed anything but deep bass.

Now from Wikipedia, in blue text:

The fundamental principle of bass management ...in surround sound replay systems is that bass content in the incoming signal, irrespective of channel, should be directed only to loudspeakers capable of handling it, whether the latter are the main system loudspeakers or one or more special low-frequency speakers (subwoofers).[1] There are notation differences between the pre-bass-managed signal and once it has passed through bass manager. For example, when using 5.1 surround sound:

...
As the table shows, the bass manager directs bass frequencies from all channels to one or more subwoofers, not just the content of the LFE channel. However, when there is no subwoofer, the bass manager would direct the LFE channel to the main speakers. This is the only time the LFE channel would not be sent to the subwoofer."
---


The fundamental problem we see in this and other audio forums, over and over again, is that people are reluctant to label their giant, expensive speakers as "small", yet that is exactly what they should do (assuming they use a sub). Whoever came up with the idea to call "bass management ON" by the term "small" should be shot.


Companies like Yamaha, Denon, etc. are more interested in stroking their customer's egos about their big, honkin', Dominator MX-10s with mondo bass, than they are in explaining how to optimize the sound as designed by Tom Holman, et al, so they came up with this silly mode "super duper extra bass" for customers who refuse to accept that bass should be taken away from their Dominator MX-10s and should be redirected to the more capable subwoofer for optimal sound.



In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #2572 of 2578 Old 04-30-2015, 10:32 PM
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"What is Bass Management?
Bass management takes the low frequency signals from the satellites, bookshelf speakers, or bass-limited directional speakers, and combines them with the LFE signal to be played through the subwoofer."
...

"Double Bass or LFE+Main ["Extra Bass" or "Both" on Yamahas] is an option that was created by AVR makers as a compromise to customers who were personally “offended” when their speakers were designated Small in the AVR's menu. In such modes, the mains run full-range AND the subwoofer is lowpassed at a specified frequency. So both the main speakers and the subwoofer are receiving bass signals. The problem is that in the overlap frequency region between the sub and the front speakers, the bass frequencies are doubled and tend to become bloated and boomy."

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=95817

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #2573 of 2578 Old 05-01-2015, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
That I would like proof of. Graphs or some sort of evidence other than it just sounds better to you.
Not data, but this is what Hardesty (Widescreen Review) had to say:
Quote:
...A lower crossover point allows more low-frequency energy to pass to the main loudspeakers. This will increase intermodulation distortion in the midrange and decrease overall dynamic range by adding stress to the bass driver and the cabinet structure of the main loud-speakers. The greatest sonic benefit offered by adding subwoofers to an audio system is due to the reduced demand for low-frequency output from the main loudspeakers.

... the practice of allowing the main loudspeakers to run full-range while adding a redundant subwoofer to augment the low bass is a big mistake. I’ve already told you why but I think that this information bears repeating.

Removing bass energy from your main loudspeakers provides the single greatest sonic benefit obtainable by adding a sub-woofer to your system!
Adding a subwoofer to a full-range loud- speaker system without high-pass filtering will probably make the system sound worse. Even with the low-pass filter in the sub-woofer set at a ridiculously-low frequency, like 40 Hz, there will still be a thickening of the mid-bass if your main loudspeakers have response extending to below 50 Hz, and you will not benefit from the reduction of intermodulation distortion that can be achieved by reducing bass output from your main amplifier and loudspeakers.
Taken a little out of context, but there t'is.


// Posted from Tapatalk 3.2.1 for iOS - later versions are pfft. //

A: Yamaha RX-V775. Bose 401 mains, 301 Series III surrounds, Yamaha NS-C444 center, Hsu VTF-2 Mk4.
V: Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Yamaha DVD-S550.

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Unlike most of you guys, I'm running a 2.1 setup (for now). I also use my system mostly for music (90% ish). So I've got a few movie/tv watching questions for you guys.


My only complaint when watching TV/movies is that I find I'm using the +3db option for dialogue almost always - and it sounds great that way, but I just wasn't expecting to need to enable it every time I watched TV. With small kids in the house and usually only watching after they are in bed I admittedly watch at lower volumes (between -40, and -35) - maybe this is why I need the dialogue boost?


Also I've heard that stands for my bookshelf speakers (to put them at ear level) would make a difference - is it really a quantifiable difference?


What mode do you guys typically set your receiver to when watching a movie? Straight? Action? Drama? etc.

Yamaha rx-v675
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post #2575 of 2578 Old 05-11-2015, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bard78 View Post
Unlike most of you guys, I'm running a 2.1 setup (for now). I also use my system mostly for music (90% ish). So I've got a few movie/tv watching questions for you guys.


My only complaint when watching TV/movies is that I find I'm using the +3db option for dialogue almost always - and it sounds great that way, but I just wasn't expecting to need to enable it every time I watched TV. With small kids in the house and usually only watching after they are in bed I admittedly watch at lower volumes (between -40, and -35) - maybe this is why I need the dialogue boost?


Also I've heard that stands for my bookshelf speakers (to put them at ear level) would make a difference - is it really a quantifiable difference?


What mode do you guys typically set your receiver to when watching a movie? Straight? Action? Drama? etc.
I usually use Straight for 5.1, Dolby Pro Logic II Music for 2.0 movies. (Music has a wider center based on some phantom reinforcement from the mains. Adjust Center width down to 2 to keep it more localized, but still wider than PL II Movie.)

I don't recall if the AVR will redirect 5.1 surround channel content to the mains when you have SL, SB, and SR disabled ("none").

You could enable Adaptive DRC, which will help dialog be more audible at the lower volumes.

You definitely should have Left, Right, and Center as near to ear level as possible while listening. Use the On Screen / Info / Audio display to check if Dolby or DTS content has a dialog flag, some content will increase or decrease the dialog, I'm not very informed of what this does in an AVR though.

Bottom line, if you like dialog boost or the Center speaker a bit higher, there's no harm in adjusting it that way. The 675/775 gives you LOTS of options, why not use them?

A: Yamaha RX-V775. Bose 401 mains, 301 Series III surrounds, Yamaha NS-C444 center, Hsu VTF-2 Mk4.
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post #2576 of 2578 Old 05-16-2015, 06:46 AM
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I was doing speaker id tests with the Spears and Munsil 2nd Edition Calibration BD and with my PS4 as the BD player I found everything to be normal except for when 7.1 channel DTS-HD MA was converted to 7.1 channel Linear PCM by the PS4... in that instance, the left (side) surround test tone came out of both the left surround and the front left speaker and the right (side) surround test tone came out of both the right surround and the front right speaker.

Converting 7.1 channel Dolby TrueHD to 7.1 Linear PCM by the PS4 did not produce any issues. And just to be clear I tested everything:

Bitstream (Direct):

DTS-HD MA 5.1

DTS-HD MA 7.1

Dolby TrueHD 5.1

Dolby TrueHD 7.1


Converted to Linear PCM (5.1):

DTS-HD MA 5.1

DTS-HD MA 7.1

Dolby TrueHD 5.1

Dolby TrueHD 7.1


Converted to Linear PCM (7.1):

DTS-HD MA 5.1 (auto converts to 5.1 Linear PCM)

DTS-HD MA 7.1

Dolby TrueHD 5.1 (auto converts to 5.1 Linear PCM)

Dolby TrueHD 7.1

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)

Last edited by PlasmaPZ80U; 05-16-2015 at 07:04 AM.
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post #2577 of 2578 Old 05-16-2015, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I was doing speaker id tests with the Spears and Munsil 2nd Edition Calibration BD and with my PS4 as the BD player I found everything to be normal except for when 7.1 channel DTS-HD MA was converted to 7.1 channel Linear PCM by the PS4... in that instance, the left (side) surround test tone came out of both the left surround and the front left speaker and the right (side) surround test tone came out of both the right surround and the front right speaker.

Converting 7.1 channel Dolby TrueHD to 7.1 Linear PCM by the PS4 did not produce any issues. And just to be clear I tested everything:

Bitstream (Direct):

DTS-HD MA 5.1

DTS-HD MA 7.1

Dolby TrueHD 5.1

Dolby TrueHD 7.1


Converted to Linear PCM (5.1):

DTS-HD MA 5.1

DTS-HD MA 7.1

Dolby TrueHD 5.1

Dolby TrueHD 7.1


Converted to Linear PCM (7.1):

DTS-HD MA 5.1

DTS-HD MA 7.1

Dolby TrueHD 5.1

Dolby TrueHD 7.1
*It's worth mentioning that when Linear PCM 7.1 is engaged on the PS4 for BD movies/calibration discs like this one it switches over the Linear PCM 5.1 automatically for 5.1 source signals.

*Also, this calibration disc uses 96kHz sampling frequency instead of the 48kHz value most content uses today.

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)

Last edited by PlasmaPZ80U; 05-16-2015 at 10:29 AM.
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post #2578 of 2578 Old Today, 11:46 AM
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Can anyone with the 375/3066 see if they have the same issue when converting 7.1 DTS-HD MA to 7.1 L-PCM? It happens on my PS3, PS4, and Xbox One and with both the Spears and Munsil 2nd Edition BD and Disney WOW BD (and regardless of 48kHz vs. 96kHz sampling rates).

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)
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