The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 8752 Old 05-10-2013, 09:41 AM
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Detachable power cord could bail you out if a critter takes a bite out of the cord.

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post #272 of 8752 Old 05-10-2013, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

You can still do that. It's just more of a PITA.

Why? It should be a ten-second one-time adjustment in the GUI unless you need the optical output to be used elsewhere.

And how else would he do what he wants to, anyway, unless I'm misunderstanding him somehow: that he simply wants to overlay HDMI video with SPDIF audio.

James

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post #273 of 8752 Old 05-10-2013, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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That GUI adjustment is still more of a PITA than pressing a button on the remote. That's the point I was making. Your solution (while perfectly viable) requires diving into the GUI and entering Input Setup to reassign inputs and/or switch the input mode setting.

With the new models, when listening to a net/usb source (e.g. Pandora streaming or Airplay) you can simply press the OPTION button on the remote, a little on-screen menu pops up, you go to "Video Select" and then just select any video source you want. Very simple and flexible (except for the fact that it only works with net/usb audio sources).

The more traditional solution you provide is less flexible if you want to potentially mix multiple sources, and is hampered by the lack of the "Input Mode" button on the remote. If all you ever want to do is mix a single audio source with a single video source (e.g. Squeezebox optical audio with DirecTV HDMI video), it's relatively straightforward -- assign both to the same name, and then when you want to switch, you go into the GUI and change the Input Mode to "digital". If you have a programmable universal it actually becomes pretty easy because the "Input Mode" discrete commands are available. But if you decide for whatever reason that you want a different "mixture", now it requires you to go into Input Assign and start remapping inputs.

So not the end of the world, but I think it qualifies as "more of a PITA" than the more straightforward "Video Select" function. In a perfect world, they would just bring it back like the good al' analog days and let Video Select function with any audio stream and any video stream, but we're not there yet.

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post #274 of 8752 Old 05-10-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

That GUI adjustment is still more of a PITA than pressing a button on the remote. That's the point I was making. Your solution (while perfectly viable) requires diving into the GUI and entering Input Setup to reassign inputs and/or switch the input mode setting.

With the new models, when listening to a net/usb source (e.g. Pandora streaming or Airplay) you can simply press the OPTION button on the remote, a little on-screen menu pops up, you go to "Video Select" and then just select any video source you want. Very simple and flexible (except for the fact that it only works with net/usb audio sources).

The more traditional solution you provide is less flexible if you want to potentially mix multiple sources, and is hampered by the lack of the "Input Mode" button on the remote. If all you ever want to do is mix a single audio source with a single video source (e.g. Squeezebox optical audio with DirecTV HDMI video), it's relatively straightforward -- assign both to the same name, and then when you want to switch, you go into the GUI and change the Input Mode to "digital". If you have a programmable universal it actually becomes pretty easy because the "Input Mode" discrete commands are available. But if you decide for whatever reason that you want a different "mixture", now it requires you to go into Input Assign and start remapping inputs.

So not the end of the world, but I think it qualifies as "more of a PITA" than the more straightforward "Video Select" function. In a perfect world, they would just bring it back like the good al' analog days and let Video Select function with any audio stream and any video stream, but we're not there yet.

More "traditional"? It's the ONLY solution that I'm aware of with these or other Denon models.

I'm not understanding something here: I wasn't aware the "video select" (or option) function allowed you to overlay SPDIF audio onto HDMI video...oh, never mind, it seems you acknowledged that.

If instead you're suggesting a utopian option that doesn't exist, I again am at a loss. I'm supplying a methodology that I know works..."traditional", slightly imperfect or otherwise.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #275 of 8752 Old 05-10-2013, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

It sounds like your media room is really the primary "critical listening" room right? Since you are only running a 5.1 setup, I might suggest getting a 1713 or X1000 so you upgrade that room to MultEQ XT. Then move the 1913 downstairs for multizone use. Basically, your option 2 above, but instead of the E300 you get the superior 1713/X1000 with the XT calibration.

Since all you want to do is stream Airplay to the patio speakers, the 1913 will already do that.

Any Zone 2 receiver can play the same source in both zones. The critical difference with All Zone Stereo is that it can also play a digital input (HDMI or optical/coax) to the second Zone, and syncs both zones to the same source automatically. But you can definitely still play Airplay to both zones on the 1913.

In terms of the "kludge minimization" factor it's very easy to fire up Zone 2 with Airplay on the 1913 using the smartphone app.

Thanks batpig.

A 1713...had not thought of that. I'd sooner have the Audessy XT in my main room, for sure.

I think a lot of this comes down to price with me. I don't have wire run yet, so I'm not in a rush - it's the summer project - so I can wait a bit to see what happens to prices.

Differences between the basic GUI and the enhanced GUI on the 1713 vs 1913 are what, exactly? Is the 1713 still smartphone-controllable?
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post #276 of 8752 Old 05-10-2013, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

More "traditional"? It's the ONLY solution that I'm aware of with these or other Denon models.

I'm not understanding something here: I wasn't aware the "video select" (or option) function allowed you to overlay SPDIF audio onto HDMI video...oh, never mind, it seems you acknowledged that.

If instead you're suggesting a utopian option that doesn't exist, I again am at a loss. I'm supplying a methodology that I know works..."traditional", slightly imperfect or otherwise.

James

My god you're almost as obstinate as me sometimes!! eek.gif

Look, it's really simple:

- The OP was lamenting the fact that the simple "Video Select" option doesn't work with SPDIF audio + HDMI video
- You suggested the perfectly reasonable alternate solution of the input assign / input mode method
- When you suggested that, you made the comment, "Unless that functionality has changed and I missed it."
- I responded to you confirming that this functionality still exists, but made an editorial comment that it's more of a PITA
- The context of that comment was in comparison to the hypothetical scenario that the OP was asking about, where Video Select actually WOULD work for SDPIF audio + HDMI video

So all I was saying was, "yes, your solution will work, but it's still more of a PITA than if Denon had gone all the way and made the "Video Select" option work for this instead". I wasn't disputing your suggestion, just lamenting the "utopian option that doesn't exist".

Make sense? tongue.gif

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post #277 of 8752 Old 05-10-2013, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmc90 View Post

Differences between the basic GUI and the enhanced GUI on the 1713 vs 1913 are what, exactly? Is the 1713 still smartphone-controllable?

Yes, 1713 is networked and can be controlled with smartphone app.

If you check out the respective manuals you can see screen shots of the GUI.

Here's an example (1713 on left, 1913 on right):


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post #278 of 8752 Old 05-10-2013, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

My god you're almost as obstinate as me sometimes!! eek.gif

Look, it's really simple:

- The OP was lamenting the fact that the simple "Video Select" option doesn't work with SPDIF audio + HDMI video
- You suggested the perfectly reasonable alternate solution of the input assign / input mode method
- When you suggested that, you made the comment, "Unless that functionality has changed and I missed it."
- I responded to you confirming that this functionality still exists, but made an editorial comment that it's more of a PITA
- The context of that comment was in comparison to the hypothetical scenario that the OP was asking about, where Video Select actually WOULD work for SDPIF audio + HDMI video

So all I was saying was, "yes, your solution will work, but it's still more of a PITA than if Denon had gone all the way and made the "Video Select" option work for this instead". I wasn't disputing your suggestion, just lamenting the "utopian option that doesn't exist".

Make sense? tongue.gif

I'm not obstinate in the slightest...for whatever reason I never saw post #249 (or yours describing the SPDIF option) with him let-down by the option.

My apologies, obviously I would have never re-suggested the identical option having consumed the aforementioned.

Have a great weekend, all.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #279 of 8752 Old 05-10-2013, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Carminus View Post

Yeah, I don't miss the days where I would have to "sell" something to my future x-wife in order to buy it. Granted it was both of our incomes so I do understand. Anyway, you could just get this: SWITCH

If you decide to go w/ the switch option.. Check Monoprice 1st. http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110
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post #280 of 8752 Old 05-10-2013, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

It's really up to you. I think you've identified the key differences:

- extra 1 year of warranty
- AM radio tuner
- ability to mix an HDMI video source with a network/USB/tuner audio stream

They are otherwise virtually identical. Same size, same power, same connectivity.

There are a few other improvement on the X1000 that you missed above:

- "All Zone Stereo" feature allowing you to play any digital source in Zone 2 (as long as the same source is selected in Main Zone)
- Ability to set Zone 2 pre-outs to variable volume control (fixed only on the 1713)
- Remote IR In port if you want to install it out of sight in a cabinet
- Spotify
- The enhanced "Info" graphic with channel input/output info
- All inputs, including analog RCA composite, are assignable
- Detachable power cord (woo!!)

Not a lot of earth shattering changes.... but personally, I think the extra year of warranty and the video mix option are worth an extra $80, but that's really up to you and your wallet. You also might want to call around to authorized dealers like AVS, Electronics-Expo, etc. and see if you can get an X1000 for a discount off msrp, in which case the price gap narrows and the decision becomes easier.

FYI here's a product comparison link: http://usa.denon.com/us/Product/Pages/ProductComparision.aspx?CatId=avreceivers(denonna)&pids=avrx1000(denonna)|avr1713(denonna)

Thanks Batpig! Went ahead and ordered the X1000. Will be replacing a 1610 so excited about the upgrade - especially the Audyssey XT!
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post #281 of 8752 Old 05-11-2013, 06:40 AM
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Well I will have the x4000 on Wednesday! Can't wait!
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post #282 of 8752 Old 05-11-2013, 06:41 AM
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Nice. Let us know what you think of it!

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Gear: Speakers (Paradigm Reference Studio Series): 40 v4 (front L/R), CC-690 v4 (centre), 20 v4 (surround L/R). PSA XS30 (subwoofer).
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post #283 of 8752 Old 05-11-2013, 06:56 AM
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Hoping to get some advice. I've had a Denon 2309 since it came out and it's been great. I just bought a new Samsung F8000 LED TV (Samsung's top model). About 80% of my setup is used for TV and movies via a DirecTV Genie and the balance for gaming via a Wii U and Apple TV. On occasion I watch Blu-ray movies, but that is very rare. Presently I have video connected from my DirecTV Genie to the Samsung via HDMI and audio from the Gene to my Denon. I have my Wii U and Apple TV connected via HDMI to the Denon and then the Denon connected to the Samsung. Here are my questions:

1. By splitting up video and audio from my STB, will I be more likely to have audio delay issues? I know I can adjust the audio delay of the Denon, but it's not easy to get it perfect and so I'm wondering if I'm more likely to have a better match if everything is run through the Denon.

2. Assuming the answer to #1 is yes, I don't believe I'll be able to pass through 3D on the Denon (is that right?), and if that's the case, perhaps it's time for a new Receiver. I could even consider taking advantage of ARC features, but everything I've read said that's more of a PITA than it's worth. Anyway, if the recommendation is to get a new A/V receiver, given my relatively limited use, what would people recommend for me?

Appreciate in advance all help.

Rich S
TiVo since 1999
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post #284 of 8752 Old 05-11-2013, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Why? It should be a ten-second one-time adjustment in the GUI unless you need the optical output to be used elsewhere.

And how else would he do what he wants to, anyway, unless I'm misunderstanding him somehow: that he simply wants to overlay HDMI video with SPDIF audio.

James

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

That GUI adjustment is still more of a PITA than pressing a button on the remote. That's the point I was making. Your solution (while perfectly viable) requires diving into the GUI and entering Input Setup to reassign inputs and/or switch the input mode setting.

With the new models, when listening to a net/usb source (e.g. Pandora streaming or Airplay) you can simply press the OPTION button on the remote, a little on-screen menu pops up, you go to "Video Select" and then just select any video source you want. Very simple and flexible (except for the fact that it only works with net/usb audio sources).

The more traditional solution you provide is less flexible if you want to potentially mix multiple sources, and is hampered by the lack of the "Input Mode" button on the remote. If all you ever want to do is mix a single audio source with a single video source (e.g. Squeezebox optical audio with DirecTV HDMI video), it's relatively straightforward -- assign both to the same name, and then when you want to switch, you go into the GUI and change the Input Mode to "digital". If you have a programmable universal it actually becomes pretty easy because the "Input Mode" discrete commands are available. But if you decide for whatever reason that you want a different "mixture", now it requires you to go into Input Assign and start remapping inputs.

So not the end of the world, but I think it qualifies as "more of a PITA" than the more straightforward "Video Select" function. In a perfect world, they would just bring it back like the good al' analog days and let Video Select function with any audio stream and any video stream, but we're not there yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

My god you're almost as obstinate as me sometimes!! eek.gif

Look, it's really simple:

- The OP was lamenting the fact that the simple "Video Select" option doesn't work with SPDIF audio + HDMI video
- You suggested the perfectly reasonable alternate solution of the input assign / input mode method
- When you suggested that, you made the comment, "Unless that functionality has changed and I missed it."
- I responded to you confirming that this functionality still exists, but made an editorial comment that it's more of a PITA
- The context of that comment was in comparison to the hypothetical scenario that the OP was asking about, where Video Select actually WOULD work for SDPIF audio + HDMI video

So all I was saying was, "yes, your solution will work, but it's still more of a PITA than if Denon had gone all the way and made the "Video Select" option work for this instead". I wasn't disputing your suggestion, just lamenting the "utopian option that doesn't exist".

Make sense? tongue.gif

Thanks for the discussion guys. Yes, going into the GUI and selecting the audio input is doable (and certainly less complicated these days with the easier to navigate GUIs) but it's still more of an effort than a dedicated button. Half the time I'm playing my xbox I want the sound from the xbox, thus there's obviously no issue. But the other half the time I want an external audio source and that's where it would be nice to just press a button and have my squeezebox audio kick in. It's not the end of the world to keep going into the GUI, but it's clearly a small PITA. lol
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post #285 of 8752 Old 05-11-2013, 08:58 AM
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So, if I read the X4000 Owner's Manual correctly, with an External Amp, this unit can output Height & Wide @ the same time? Up to 9.2, say, run Fronts with external amp, sacrifice Surround Back?

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
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post #286 of 8752 Old 05-11-2013, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Correct, been discussed several times and states clearly in post #1.

In fact you can hook up all 11 speakers,but only 9 can be active at a time.

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post #287 of 8752 Old 05-11-2013, 12:09 PM
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^^Thanks, I've prolly asked you this before, you are very kind. 3312 on the fritz, don't think I'll buy another at this time. 2 different Denons out in less than a year.

Took 10 years & lightning to take the 1st one out.

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RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #288 of 8752 Old 05-11-2013, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMSko View Post

Hoping to get some advice. I've had a Denon 2309 since it came out and it's been great. I just bought a new Samsung F8000 LED TV (Samsung's top model). About 80% of my setup is used for TV and movies via a DirecTV Genie and the balance for gaming via a Wii U and Apple TV. On occasion I watch Blu-ray movies, but that is very rare. Presently I have video connected from my DirecTV Genie to the Samsung via HDMI and audio from the Gene to my Denon. I have my Wii U and Apple TV connected via HDMI to the Denon and then the Denon connected to the Samsung. Here are my questions:

1. By splitting up video and audio from my STB, will I be more likely to have audio delay issues? I know I can adjust the audio delay of the Denon, but it's not easy to get it perfect and so I'm wondering if I'm more likely to have a better match if everything is run through the Denon.

2. Assuming the answer to #1 is yes, I don't believe I'll be able to pass through 3D on the Denon (is that right?), and if that's the case, perhaps it's time for a new Receiver. I could even consider taking advantage of ARC features, but everything I've read said that's more of a PITA than it's worth. Anyway, if the recommendation is to get a new A/V receiver, given my relatively limited use, what would people recommend for me?

Appreciate in advance all help.

I have my TV hooked up the same way. Cable box to TV and optical to denon if I want to use that. I've never noticed a lipsync problem. I'd suggest just give it a try and see.
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post #289 of 8752 Old 05-11-2013, 12:28 PM
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Does anyone know if these new AVRs support HDCD decoding?
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post #290 of 8752 Old 05-11-2013, 12:37 PM
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They don't .... the 4311CI and A100 (2010) were the last Denon AVRs to include that feature.

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post #291 of 8752 Old 05-12-2013, 04:02 AM
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Question that may not come into play depending on what they send me as a replacement. If I get a new (refurbished) X-2000 to replace my defective 2113, will the value be more than the $399.00 that the 2113 goes for refurbished? The list prices are the same or about the same but I was thinking one being the current model might make it more valuable. I searched for refurbished X-2000s but had no luck. And I most likely will receive another 2113 anyway.
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post #292 of 8752 Old 05-12-2013, 04:06 AM
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As the X2000 has just recently been released within the past week or two, you're unlikely to find "refurbished" units yet as it generally takes a few months after a model is first released before refurbished units become available. However, the X2000 would be considered an upgrade to the 2113CI as it features an extra HDMI input, the All Zone Stereo feature to pass the same HDMI audio playing in the main zone to Zone 2, and also "variable" volume control to Zone 2 pre-outs to allow adjustment of the external amp's volume via the X2000 remote control or a smart phone Remote app.

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post #293 of 8752 Old 05-12-2013, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by hhawk View Post

Question that may not come into play depending on what they send me as a replacement. If I get a new (refurbished) X-2000 to replace my defective 2113, will the value be more than the $399.00 that the 2113 goes for refurbished? The list prices are the same or about the same but I was thinking one being the current model might make it more valuable. I searched for refurbished X-2000s but had no luck. And I most likely will receive another 2113 anyway.

So have they shipped it yet? Or, just not let you know what she is yet?

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PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #294 of 8752 Old 05-12-2013, 11:58 AM
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So have they shipped it yet? Or, just not let you know what she is yet?

I sent my defective unit back Wednesday the 8th and I guess they are waiting before they receive it to send out the replacement. My contact at Denon said they will let me know when they send the replacement unit. (This all started May 2nd when I contacted Denon about how to handle the defective 2113.) The only reason I thought of the X-2000 was that I read about someone who went the dealer route and bought a defective 2113 unit, received the new model from the dealer. Since mine was a refurb I imagine I will get the exact same model refurb, but thought I may get lucky.
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post #295 of 8752 Old 05-12-2013, 01:57 PM
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Maybe it's just me, but when I sent a tv back to LG & the serial number plates from a Panasonic tv (both unrepairable) I had in writing Exactly what they were offering & a time frame for completion.

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
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PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #296 of 8752 Old 05-12-2013, 03:33 PM
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Well I will have the x4000 on Wednesday! Can't wait!

Looking forward to the first member review of the X4000. smile.gif

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post #297 of 8752 Old 05-12-2013, 03:57 PM
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Ok all, looking to the future for a 11.2 HT I am going to have by perhaps next spring. Basically I have the option of the 4520 or the 4311 (I think this unit can do 11 channels amped correct?). Or whatever the new flagship to come out is. So as I read often, I must decide what features I want. I plan on keeping my 3313 to use with my Panasonic plasma elsewhere in a 2 channel setup and have the future option of zone 2 if desired.

So features wanted are: XT 32 (of course), SubEQ HT, ability to externally amplify the front L/R, center, and wides. Really that's it. With that said the logical choice seems to be the lowest priced one that can accomplish this but...is there internal hardware that is better that would be worth a little more? Also if the 4520 is 2500 msrp then it's successor, if following the new Denon pricing trends, could be 2000-2200 perhaps. And if I plan on having it for awhile then maybe the extra could be worth it.

So this will be the existing list of gear to accomplish this setup.
HSU VTF 15H subwoofer (this will be the 2nd sub, currently have one)
Denon 11 channel AVR
Definitive Technology Studio Monitor 55s (will be wides)
Definitive Technology Pro Monitor 1000s (will be heights)
Projector (haven't done any research yet but planning on a 1080p)
Screen
Emotiva xpa-5 (I could go with an xpa-3 to save a little)

From your opinions do you think Denon will release the 4520 successor next spring? And your thoughts on the avr for this setup. Thank all!biggrin.gif
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post #298 of 8752 Old 05-12-2013, 03:59 PM
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Looking forward to the first member review of the X4000. smile.gif

Yes Carminus has made a great choice IMO over his original selection. XT 32, 9 channel capable, new features!
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post #299 of 8752 Old 05-12-2013, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Ok all, looking to the future for a 11.2 HT I am going to have by perhaps next spring. Basically I have the option of the 4520 or the 4311 (I think this unit can do 11 channels amped correct?). Or whatever the new flagship to come out is. So as I read often, I must decide what features I want. I plan on keeping my 3313 to use with my Panasonic plasma elsewhere in a 2 channel setup and have the future option of zone 2 if desired.

From your opinions do you think Denon will release the 4520 successor next spring? And your thoughts on the avr for this setup. Thank all!biggrin.gif

Your post is better listed in the Denon 4520CI Owner's thread as this thread only covers the 2013 E/X models. However, note that the flagship models are generally released in Oct/Nov so the successor to the 4520CI wouldn't be expected until Oct/Nov 2014.

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** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
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post #300 of 8752 Old 05-12-2013, 05:32 PM
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Looking forward to the first member review of the X4000. smile.gif

This is going to be a very quick and non thorough review. 

 

Received the x4000 last Thursday, so only a few days to play with it. Previously had the Denon 4308ci. 

 

Very easy to set up. Sounds great. Already using 6 of the 7 HDMI inputs. Have a 7.1 sound system with two back channels.

 

Really love the GUI, both on screen and via a computer browser. I'm going to try to do all the HD Radio and Internet radio programming from the computer.

 

Programmed by MX 980 with all the x4000 commands. There are additional commands from the 4308 that work with the x4000 that aren't part of the 4000 remote such as direct access to some of the sound modes.

 

Airplay works great.

 

I'll leave it to someone else to get into the more technical aspects of this AVR, but to me it's a real winner.

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