The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 106 - AVS Forum
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post #3151 of 9421 Old 10-26-2013, 01:12 PM
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Hey SJSJ, I missed it somehow, what model do you have? My X2000 has no issues at all and it's in an entertainment center with only 1/2" of space on the sides, 3" of space to a partially closed back, 6" of space to the top and of course open in the front. I have efficient Klipsch speakers (5.1) and a PSA XV15 sub, and the speaker trims are all in the -7 to -5db range set by Audyssey and double checked with a SPL meter to make sure I get 75db per speaker at the MLP.

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post #3152 of 9421 Old 10-26-2013, 04:18 PM
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Considering the X4000 versus something in the Integra line for a new media room / theater.

It's going to be paired with Triad silver in ceiling surrounds (4) which are 4 ohm speakers. I was planning on getting a small emotiva amp to run those, as it seems this receiver isn't rated for 4 ohms? Would the X4000 run them at moderate volumes?

Also, the installer is telling me that he has had some problems with Denon receivers having issues with HDMI when changing channels on a cable box - delays, screen blanking, losing sync etc - anyone experience something along those lines with this receiver? Display devices are going to be an epson 5030 front projector and a panasonic st 60 plasma.
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post #3153 of 9421 Old 10-26-2013, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Hey SJSJ, I missed it somehow, what model do you have? My X2000 has no issues at all and it's in an entertainment center with only 1/2" of space on the sides, 3" of space to a partially closed back, 6" of space to the top and of course open in the front. I have efficient Klipsch speakers (5.1) and a PSA XV15 sub, and the speaker trims are all in the -7 to -5db range set by Audyssey and double checked with a SPL meter to make sure I get 75db per speaker at the MLP.

My unit is an X4000 with no thermal issues + lots of cool breathing room.
I'm running KLIPSCH RC-62, RF3, RS3, Definitive Tech Sub PF15TL, & rear surround Energy V-Minis.

I'm not surprised those large neg trim levels set by Audyssey aren't showing issues like mine does.
Apparently many folk have good working units, some not so lucky.
Hope to experiment more tomorrow.
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post #3154 of 9421 Old 10-26-2013, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bald View Post

Also, the installer is telling me that he has had some problems with Denon receivers having issues with HDMI when changing channels on a cable box - delays, screen blanking, losing sync etc - anyone experience something along those lines with this receiver? Display devices are going to be an epson 5030 front projector and a panasonic st 60 plasma.

Hi bald, own three Denon and no issues here (cross fingers smile.gif).
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post #3155 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 06:31 AM
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I own an X1000, recently purchased and am very happy indeed with it. It's the first genuinely nice audio gear I've ever bought. At the moment it has two speakers, bought at the same time - Monitor Audio Bronze BX2s, with a centre on the way as soon as I can. I may put the BXs back to surround duty and get some new front speakers but honestly, can't see me with 7.1 or anything above that in terms of number of speakers. Now, I realise that the X1000 and the MA Bronze are not top shelf mortgage your home equipment, but I'm happy.

My question then is a bit vacuous I guess, in my own opinion. It's not so much said as inferred, it seems, that for stereo music listening a stereo amp should be used, not an AV receiver, and there's an almost patronising tone from those with multi thou$and amps. Is there any reason for this? I realise that discussing audio gear creates as much chest thumping as discussing text editors does. OK, a receiver obviously has more parts - more amp channels, more potential for surround processing and hence more DSP power, more physical components - connectors etc, and so that's money spent on something other than a pair of amps, but is their any other reason a receiver is not necessarily the best choice for stereo music playback? I'd say my usage is 80% video, 20% music, and I could drag my old Yamaha amp out of storage (I can't remember which model it is), but the Denon (+ new speakers) sound far better than what I had before. Also, paradoxically I guess, I'm not that concerned by what other people think and yet am posting here asking for opinions smile.gif I'm very happy with what I have, as I said, this's my first real attempt at assembling a system, just wondering if I'm missing something?
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post #3156 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bald View Post

Also, the installer is telling me that he has had some problems with Denon receivers having issues with HDMI when changing channels on a cable box - delays, screen blanking, losing sync etc - anyone experience something along those lines with this receiver? Display devices are going to be an epson 5030 front projector and a panasonic st 60 plasma.

Hi bald, own three Denon and no issues here (cross fingers smile.gif).

It's not entirely Denon's fault. Many cable and satellite receiver boxes have inadequate HDMI implementations and are unable to cope with the repeaters used in A/V receivers and pre/pros. Firmware updates to set-top-boxes have been known to make previously working configurations stop working. DirecTV is particularly prone to the latter.

The work-around is to connect the HDMI output of the set-top-box directly to the TV for video and connect its S/PDIF audio output (optical or coax) to the AVR.

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post #3157 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emueyes View Post

I own an X1000, recently purchased and am very happy indeed with it. It's the first genuinely nice audio gear I've ever bought. At the moment it has two speakers, bought at the same time - Monitor Audio Bronze BX2s, with a centre on the way as soon as I can. I may put the BXs back to surround duty and get some new front speakers but honestly, can't see me with 7.1 or anything above that in terms of number of speakers. Now, I realise that the X1000 and the MA Bronze are not top shelf mortgage your home equipment, but I'm happy.

My question then is a bit vacuous I guess, in my own opinion. It's not so much said as inferred, it seems, that for stereo music listening a stereo amp should be used, not an AV receiver, and there's an almost patronising tone from those with multi thou$and amps. Is there any reason for this? I realise that discussing audio gear creates as much chest thumping as discussing text editors does. OK, a receiver obviously has more parts - more amp channels, more potential for surround processing and hence more DSP power, more physical components - connectors etc, and so that's money spent on something other than a pair of amps, but is their any other reason a receiver is not necessarily the best choice for stereo music playback? I'd say my usage is 80% video, 20% music, and I could drag my old Yamaha amp out of storage (I can't remember which model it is), but the Denon (+ new speakers) sound far better than what I had before. Also, paradoxically I guess, I'm not that concerned by what other people think and yet am posting here asking for opinions smile.gif I'm very happy with what I have, as I said, this's my first real attempt at assembling a system, just wondering if I'm missing something?

Here's the thing ... regardless of the recommendations or opinions provided on the forum, what counts in the end is what you prefer, and if you enjoy what you're hearing then sit back, listen and enjoy. The AVR is very capable of providing for fine stereo listening just as with multi channel movie surround listening. smile.gif

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post #3158 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 08:45 AM
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Can the X3000 drive 6 Ohms speakers to reference levels? I am thinking of buying Aperion 5T 7.1 system with Denon X3000 but the towers are rated 6 Ohms.
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post #3159 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 09:07 AM
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it depends, how big is the room you're putting this system in? It would take more power to get to reference levels in say a 20 x 25 room vs a 13 x 17 room.

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post #3160 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJSJ View Post

I'm just reporting what I was told by Louis at Denon tech support and this advice from "left field" fixed the random shut down issues I was having. I had three rear speakers with large neg offset levels that I trimmed back to values near 0 db. He told me that most of the values should be near 0db. So I also trimmed back some of the larger pos front speakers. So if Audyssey set those values, it's counter intuitive to mess with them.... For the rear 3 speakers, the mic distance was around 9", while the other 5 speakers where many feet from the mic.

When you lower the high (+) values to 0db you were reducing the load on the AVR, however, what is important to consider is that there are very few speakers that should ever produce a (+) trim value and certainly not your Klipsch speakers with a 98db efficiency which should have resulted in closer to -12db trim values, certainly nothing even close to 0db or in the positive range. The fact that you are getting (+) values likely means either there is a problem with the speakers themselves or the AVR.

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post #3161 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by booga24 View Post

Can the X3000 drive 6 Ohms speakers to reference levels? I am thinking of buying Aperion 5T 7.1 system with Denon X3000 but the towers are rated 6 Ohms.

With an average efficiency of 89db and the AVR designed to power 6ohm speakers, as afrogt notes, in an average sized room you should be able to attain reference level STEREO mode without any issues.

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post #3162 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

it depends, how big is the room you're putting this system in? It would take more power to get to reference levels in say a 20 x 25 room vs a 13 x 17 room.



Room is 12' W X 21' L X 8' H and I watch my movies on hot side.
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post #3163 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

With an average efficiency of 89db and the AVR designed to power 6ohm speakers, as afrogt notes, in an average sized room you should be able to attain reference level STEREO mode without any issues.


Would going with X4000 make any difference?
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post #3164 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 09:46 AM
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In power no ... in audio quality ... definitely as it uses the more advanced XT32. Of that 21' length how far back from the display is the couch?

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just want to verify, with the x2000 i can play audio from my chromecast connected via HDMI 1 while playing ps3 or xbox connected via hdmi 2 or 3?

thx
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post #3166 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 10:13 AM
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In power no ... in audio quality ... definitely as it uses the more advanced XT32. Of that 21' length how far back from the display is the couch?[/quote






Screen is 13' from the first row and 15' from the second row.
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post #3167 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 10:37 AM
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^^
Then likely no problems.

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post #3168 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dadoc04 View Post

just want to verify, with the x2000 i can play audio from my chromecast connected via HDMI 1 while playing ps3 or xbox connected via hdmi 2 or 3?

thx

Yes, that is correct as long as the HDMI audio source is assigned to the "CD" input.
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post #3169 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 10:43 AM
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I was looking at this line of Denon in Best Buy on Friday.  The sales rep there told me that 3 year manufacturer warranty is so good that if you get their Geek Squad protection it doesn't add on top of the man'f warranty, but rather adds to the end of it, i.e. so instead of having a 3 year man'f warranty you get a 6 or 7 year man'f warranty.  Also, for any issues to be resolved with man'f warranty, you can just drop it off at Best Buy rather than having to ship it.

 

Anyone have experience / opinions on this?

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post #3170 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

When you lower the high (+) values to 0db you were reducing the load on the AVR, however, what is important to consider is that there are very few speakers that should ever produce a (+) trim value and certainly not your Klipsch speakers with a 98db efficiency which should have resulted in closer to -12db trim values, certainly nothing even close to 0db or in the positive range. The fact that you are getting (+) values likely means either there is a problem with the speakers themselves or the AVR.

I think he meant he " trimmed back " negative values to 0 - not positive values to 0 :

" I'm just reporting what I was told by Louis at Denon tech support and this advice from "left field" fixed the random shut down issues I was having. I had three rear speakers with large neg offset levels that I trimmed back to values near 0 db. He told me that most of the values should be near 0db. So I also trimmed back some of the larger pos front speakers. So if Audyssey set those values, it's counter intuitive to mess with them.... For the rear 3 speakers, the mic distance was around 9", while the other 5 speakers where many feet from the mic. "
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post #3171 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 10:59 AM
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Yeh .. that part is true, however, the sentence I highlighted would indicate the front speakers had "pos"itive trim values. Unless I'm misreading this, as it is highly unlikely that if all speaker trim values were set to high negative values (as would be expected with Klipsch speakers) and upon resetting them to 0db would resolve the issue of the AVR shutting down, when in fact as already noted, doing so would increase the load on the AVR not decrease it.

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post #3172 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yeh .. that part is true, however, the sentence I highlighted would indicate the front speakers had "pos"itive trim values. Unless I'm misreading this, as it is highly unlikely that if all speaker trim values were set to high negative values (as would be expected with Klipsch speakers) and upon resetting them to 0db would resolve the issue of the AVR shutting down, when in fact as already noted, doing so would increase the load on the AVR not decrease it.

Ahh right, for some reason on my initial read through I thought that the abbreviation POS stood for position not positive. Positive makes a lot more sense given the context. Regardless of that something's definitely not right if he's getting a large positive offset for his fronts, and large negative offset for his rears. Hopefully he'll give us an update as to what the final diagnosis is.
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post #3173 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 11:57 AM
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Hello!

 

I did get myself one AVR-X4000 some days ago, and have been playing around with it. I have one problem that i hope someone can help me with.

 

After installing the reciever, the sound mode automaticly change. When i use my PS3 the audio mode go to stereo while in menus, but when i play/watch a movie it will detect the right sound-mode. (if it plays Dolby Digital it change to this etc)

I have however lost this feature on my Apple-TV. When i used the "sound mode" buttons, i cant get back to the auto-detect mode again.

 

Are there anyone who know what button/where in the setup i can get back to this feature? 

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post #3174 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 12:33 PM
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I read his post to say that Audyssey set all of his speakers in the negative range, and I believe he quoted -9db as the trim setting. He was then advised to raise the trims up closer to 0db which he did. That is how I understand it.

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post #3175 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 01:28 PM
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Hello!

I did get myself one AVR-X4000 some days ago, and have been playing around with it. I have one problem that i hope someone can help me with.

After installing the reciever, the sound mode automaticly change. When i use my PS3 the audio mode go to stereo while in menus, but when i play/watch a movie it will detect the right sound-mode. (if it plays Dolby Digital it change to this etc)
I have however lost this feature on my Apple-TV. When i used the "sound mode" buttons, i cant get back to the auto-detect mode again.

Are there anyone who know what button/where in the setup i can get back to this feature? 

I would like to know this too, I just noticed it in the last couple days.

For instance, I had to manually choose Mono Movie for one film (had centre channel only = annoying lol), and it stayed in that mode until I manually chose something else, even though the next BD had the usual 5.1 tracks only. Same thing after manually choosing Stereo.

It says it will choose the "best" audio format for a source, and it doesn't. It chooses formats that aren't even (naturally) available from the source. Thanks.
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post #3176 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 02:35 PM
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When i used the "sound mode" buttons, i cant get back to the auto-detect mode again.

Are there anyone who know what button/where in the setup i can get back to this feature?

Hi Arne Sandsether, Inputs > Input Select > Decode Mode
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post #3177 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 02:40 PM
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Hi Arne Sandsether, Inputs > Input Select > Decode Mode

Strange. Have it on "Automaticly"

Could it be a bug in the last firmware?

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post #3178 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 03:11 PM
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Once you manually select a sound filed using the movie and music mode buttons, it will always use that sound field for that input whenever the same input signal is received. For example, if on the Blu-ray input, you receive 2 channel PCM and change the sound filed from the default stereo setting to PL II Music, it will always return to PL II Music on Blu-ray whenever 2 channel PCM is received, until you change it. When mutli channel input signals are received on blu-ray input, then the unit will decode those with the appropriate decoder.

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post #3179 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yeh .. that part is true, however, the sentence I highlighted would indicate the front speakers had "pos"itive trim values. Unless I'm misreading this, as it is highly unlikely that if all speaker trim values were set to high negative values (as would be expected with Klipsch speakers) and upon resetting them to 0db would resolve the issue of the AVR shutting down, when in fact as already noted, doing so would increase the load on the AVR not decrease it.

"pos" == positive in the context I was using it.

I re-arranged the rear surround speakers & couch to provide 20" (from 9") clearance to the rear listening position and re-ran Audyseey:.
The new results are:
FL: -1.0
Center: -1.5
FR: -3.5
SR: +2.0
SBR -3.0
SBL -6.0
SL 0
Sub Woofer -3.0

Now only one large neg value, and everything else is "close" enough to 0db.
I'll give it a test drive tonight with a movie.
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post #3180 of 9421 Old 10-27-2013, 06:40 PM
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^^
A setting is not technically "large" unless it is between -10db to -12db. That said, your settings although normal for many speakers in most homes, is not normal for Klipsch speakers in the average home, rather readings closer to -10db would be more normal.
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