The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 118 - AVS Forum
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post #3511 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jnnt29 View Post

I don't want to turn the unit off and on unnecessarily so I switch from the watch Blu Ray activity on the harmony remote to watch TV with the AVR and then to the watch TV without the AVR and it works fine with no lose of audio.. I don't want give up Dolby true HD or DTS Master Audio..

Hi jnnt29, on the tv a simple as switching to different input and back will correct HDMI handshake.
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post #3512 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
1. No major issues, and certainly not to the extent of Onkyo. eek.gif
2. It works, but guessing that many (like myself) bypass any video processing as most TVs these days do just as good of a job.
3. Issues described in post #4 of this thread.
On the subject of quality, and it has nothing at all to do with the performance of the unit itself but I've noticed on my X4000 that the front pop-out plate squeaks when it opens whereas my old 3806 was quiet and smooth as silk. Minor nit to be sure, but the X4000 does seem just a bit less "finished and polished" than the earlier models. Again though, in a dark HT that stuff doesn't matter, as long as it's not something that has/may migrate to the actual performance of the unit.

Just something I've noticed and wondered if anyone else has noticed, and if anyone has any ideas on how it might be remedied.
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post #3513 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 10:46 AM
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I would try some Graphite Powder Lubricant on the hinge. Don't go spraying WD-40 or the like there however. The dry powder stuff works well on locks and other sensitive parts and is easy to find.

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post #3514 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 10:48 AM
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^^ "a bit less "finished and polished" ? smile.gif

It's a helluva lot less finished and polished compared to the 3808, you notice when you first touch the X4000. The 3808 knobs are like a smooth transmission vs one with broken gear teeth on the X4000. And the door smoothness? Mine is OK, but doesn't seem "hydraulic" in its smoothness like on the 3808. The connectors on the X4000 back all seem cheaper quality.

But we expected that, based on the X4000 price. And as you infer, mostly these are black boxes that we interface with via our screens and remotes, so I don't really have a problem with it. But I sure notice it. The X4000 looks fine though, it's not an A/V rack visual "abomination" IMO. Nor does it look stupidly 70s (yes, I still have some preamps from then) like Onkyo/Integra pre-pros with zillions of switches, like an analog preamp would need, yet ironically Onkyos are awful with analog input signals.
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post #3515 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Hi kmfellows, not having this issue when using Instapreview. Don't know but maybe its because Zone 2 or 3 is on (sorry I don't use Zone 2 or 3)?

I noticed the display was saying "zone 2 off" when I thought the AVR was off...why was the display on talking about zone 2 when I don't use the other zones? What is also strange...my Darbee lights were on high instead of off like I had it set, and the word "Darbee" was displayed when I next watched a movie on the projector.(was set to off as well)..I'm sure nobody changed the settings on the Darbee, as the remote is put away and not intuitive to use...I can only guess an ir signal somehow hit my equipment...I know that when I would sometimes use the Oppo remote, it would lower my projector screen (I tried swtiching ir on the Oppo, still does it sometimes so I just turn power off to screen when it's where I want it...)...I'll have to research to see what can be done, I do have a Harmony One which I don't often use, maybe reprogramming it will help. kf
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post #3516 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

I would try some Graphite Powder Lubricant on the hinge. Don't go spraying WD-40 or the like there however. The dry powder stuff works well on locks and other sensitive parts and is easy to find.
I was thinking along the same lines, the problem being access, I don't even know where/how I could even get to the offending area. Squeezing/squirting lubricant into a dark crevice just doesn't seem like a good idea! biggrin.gif
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post #3517 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

^^ "a bit less "finished and polished" ? smile.gif

It's a helluva lot less finished and polished compared to the 3808, you notice when you first touch the X4000. The 3808 knobs are like a smooth transmission vs one with broken gear teeth on the X4000. And the door smoothness? Mine is OK, but doesn't seem "hydraulic" in its smoothness like on the 3808. The connectors on the X4000 back all seem cheaper quality.

But we expected that, based on the X4000 price. And as you infer, mostly these are black boxes that we interface with via our screens and remotes, so I don't really have a problem with it. But I sure notice it. The X4000 looks fine though, it's not an A/V rack visual "abomination" IMO. Nor does it look stupidly 70s (yes, I still have some preamps from then) like Onkyo/Integra pre-pros with zillions of switches, like an analog preamp would need, yet ironically Onkyos are awful with analog input signals.
Yeah, well, I was trying to be gracious! It is what it is, and so far it has done everything it's supposed to do without issue so I'm not that concerned about fit and finish. What is in the back of my mind is the fact that it's being built by a new/different company than the old, very polished, Denon AVRs and electrical issues come to mind - it is going to be as trustworthy and faultless as my "brick s***house" solid 3806 has been these last 6-7 years? Time will tell. smile.gif
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post #3518 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 02:46 PM
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^ I am extremely critical of the gear I own. Unlike other peoples' gear, none of mine is perfect, as I've been led to believe theirs is. smile.gif I actually was being polite compared to what I'd say about my stuff if you were here. I am the world's worst salesperson...combine that with being an engineer and having that sort of critical eye and it's mostly unprintable here.
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post #3519 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 04:37 PM
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On the subject of quality ... I've noticed on my X4000 that the front pop-out plate squeaks when it opens ... Just something I've noticed and wondered if anyone else has noticed ...
The panel on my AVR-X4000 moves smoothly and quietly. smile.gif

Although it's not as elegant-looking as my previous AVR - a Marantz SR6003 - the AVR-X4000 is a nice-looking and well-constructed unit. And I love the fact that the selector knob has usable detents, something my SR6003 was lacking.

Two things the Marantz's remote had that I *really* miss on the Denon's remote:
- The ability to toggle through the Audyssey settings (Front, Flat, Audyssey, Custom, Off) with a single button.
- The ability to adjust all speaker + subwoofer channel levels without having to go into the set-up menu and interrupting whatever audio happens to be playing. (One button to pop up the option, up/down to select the channel to adjust, and left/right to make the adjustment.)
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post #3520 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 04:40 PM
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I just ordered an X4000 to replace my 3310CI. I have a couple of questions related to remote codes:
  • Have the remote codes changed much between the 3310CI and the X4000? I control my system with a Harmony One remote and it would be really nice if I didn't have to reprogram the remote to deal with the new receiver.
  • I saw in Post #4 the issue with universal remotes turning on other zones when powering up the X4000. Is that still an issue, or has it been fixed? If it hasn't been fixed, does somebody out there have a specific fix to use with the Harmony One remote? I don't want to have to manually power off my Zone 2 speakers on my patio every time I fire up the X4000 and there's no way my wife will remember to do that.
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post #3521 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnnt29 View Post

I don't want to turn the unit off and on unnecessarily so I switch from the watch Blu Ray activity on the harmony remote to watch TV with the AVR and then to the watch TV without the AVR and it works fine with no lose of audio.. I don't want give up Dolby true HD or DTS Master Audio..

You may be surprised to learn there is very little audible difference between the HD audio codecs over HDMI vs. the higher bitrate DD/DTS audio on BDs (vs. DVDs) over optical.

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post #3522 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

On the subject of quality, and it has nothing at all to do with the performance of the unit itself but I've noticed on my X4000 that the front pop-out plate squeaks when it opens whereas my old 3806 was quiet and smooth as silk. Minor nit to be sure, but the X4000 does seem just a bit less "finished and polished" than the earlier models. Again though, in a dark HT that stuff doesn't matter, as long as it's not something that has/may migrate to the actual performance of the unit.

Just something I've noticed and wondered if anyone else has noticed, and if anyone has any ideas on how it might be remedied.

Mine is as quiet as a church mouse, although keep in mind the current successor to the 3806 is the flagship 4520CI as the X4000 is the successor to the 331XCI models.

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post #3523 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 06:09 PM
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Just a real quick question.
For DENON X4000, what are banana plugs I should use, 2mm or 4mm? Thanks.
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post #3524 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 06:14 PM
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Whatever size that Monoprice sells works just fine .... smile.gif

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?seq=1&format=2&p_id=9436&CAWELAID=1549177965&catargetid=320013720000010659&cadevice=c&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CLKjt5zS6roCFYZi7Aod3g8AdA

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post #3525 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

I was thinking along the same lines, the problem being access, I don't even know where/how I could even get to the offending area. Squeezing/squirting lubricant into a dark crevice just doesn't seem like a good idea! biggrin.gif

I was assuming that you could see some of the hinge once the panel was open, as I have an X2000 and not a 4000. I guess it all depends on how much it bothers you, but for me, I haven't actually touched my receiver since I installed it, with the exception of dusting it, so it wouldn't be an issue.

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post #3526 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post


Two things the Marantz's remote had that I *really* miss on the Denon's remote:
- The ability to toggle through the Audyssey settings (Front, Flat, Audyssey, Custom, Off) with a single button.
- The ability to adjust all speaker + subwoofer channel levels without having to go into the set-up menu and interrupting whatever audio happens to be playing. (One button to pop up the option, up/down to select the channel to adjust, and left/right to make the adjustment.)

both of the above can be replicated on a programmable universal like Harmony, although the Ch Level pop-up screen doesn't exist anymore there are discrete codes for all channel levels. I only ever tweak the center channel (dialog) and subwoofer (bass) personally so I just have those two channels programmed into my Harmony.

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post #3527 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhachey View Post

I just ordered an X4000 to replace my 3310CI. I have a couple of questions related to remote codes:
  • Have the remote codes changed much between the 3310CI and the X4000? I control my system with a Harmony One remote and it would be really nice if I didn't have to reprogram the remote to deal with the new receiver.
  • I saw in Post #4 the issue with universal remotes turning on other zones when powering up the X4000. Is that still an issue, or has it been fixed? If it hasn't been fixed, does somebody out there have a specific fix to use with the Harmony One remote? I don't want to have to manually power off my Zone 2 speakers on my patio every time I fire up the X4000 and there's no way my wife will remember to do that.

Yes, there have been some changes, but I use the same Harmony Denon profile I have had since my AVR-2105 so trust me it's not necessary to reprogram your Activities from scratch. The basics like volume up/down, most input commands, menu/return and up/down/left/right, etc. are the same.

You will have to make some tweaks (e.g. input commands, power commands) but you can keep the same basic infrastructure. In fact I recommend keeping the old 3310CI device profile and just supplementing by teaching some new commands and tweaking, since if you delete it and add the X4000 you will lose Audyssey commands and some other buttons.

Notable changes off the top of my head:

- As noted already the Power commands have changed. It's not something that will be "fixed" because it's not an "issue", it's just that the commands have changed so they don't do the same thing they used to. What used to be the discrete Power On/Off toggles is now an All Zone Power On/Off command. The easiest fix, since Denon AVR's now turn on with an input command (e.g. InputDVD or InputTV), is to go into the Power settings for the device and change the "Power on" command to InputAUX (the front panel aux input) which will turn it on without turning on the other zones. Then, at the end of the Activity start sequence it will fire whatever the correct input command is for the Activity. That's what I do and it works seamlessly. The old Zone 2 on/off discretes I had still work fine.

- Some input commands may be different, so you may need to teach from the X4000 remote

- Some functions like the CH LEVEL button are gone and don't do anything anymore

- There are some new functions like InstaPrevue and the INFO and OPTION buttons which you will want to teach from the X4000 remote

- The factory remote no longer has Audyssey buttons (MultEQ toggle for EQ curves, Dyn EQ/Vol button) but the commands still work, so you will want to keep these from the 3310 profile, or if you delete the 3310 and reload an X4000 device, you can use the 3310 remote to teach these to the X4000 profile.

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post #3528 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post


Two things the Marantz's remote had that I *really* miss on the Denon's remote:
- The ability to toggle through the Audyssey settings (Front, Flat, Audyssey, Custom, Off) with a single button.
- The ability to adjust all speaker + subwoofer channel levels without having to go into the set-up menu and interrupting whatever audio happens to be playing. (One button to pop up the option, up/down to select the channel to adjust, and left/right to make the adjustment.)

Not really Denon things, which are also Marantz things, more like E/X things. The first I programmed from the spreadsheet codes, works fine. Also you can cycle through all the Dyn. Vol. and Dyn. EQ options with another single button code, or do them separately with two other codes.

The second, yeah it really bugs me that they removed such a simple and elegant way to adjust any channel level, and pretty much agree with what batpig said re that, but still... Also: why the heck did they also remove the ability to select any source from the main menu? That was good too.

And since I'm on a "roll" [cheap segue]: why don't the menus scroll/wrap-around? Basic user-friendliness, shouldn't have to press down arrow sixteen (or whatever) times to get to the end of long menus (e.g. Trigger and numerous others). Related to that: why does it stop on "blacked out" menu items that I can't select anyway? That's basic ergonomics...I'm big on that.

But yeah, it all works, I'm not disappointed or anything. Could use a little menu clean-up and polishing I think, maybe we'll see it, I really don't know how Denon handles their lower-priced offerings re FW updates etc., haven't seen many yet. Could be a good sign, or not...
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post #3529 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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If you watched my video review of the 2113CI the lack of "wrap" on the menus was one of the things I panned. It's a simple thing and it would really help especially with the Audio menu where the Audyssey menu is at the bottom.

The stopping on "blacked out" menu items is actually intentional, because if you click on one of the black out items it actually will give you an error message explaining why it is blacked out. For example if you have DEQ on and you try to access "Tone Control" it will tell you that you have to turn off Dynamic EQ to access tone controls. So, while not the most elegantly executed UI, at least there was a reason for that part.

On the channel level thing... user Comfynumb posted some screen caps of the DeRemote control app on the Audyssey thread and it has a channel level screen that allows you to adjust any channel from your smartphone or tablet, pretty cool replacement if you want that feature access. This post: http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-51779/67080#post_23957701

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post #3530 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 08:35 PM
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Usually that's true, and perhaps I'm the only one that's experienced the following.  After a couple of years with the mono price banana plugs, they started to partly collapse where inserted into the speaker.  I noticed because the speakers would actually rattle back there and I thought I had a blown woofer until I sourced the noise.  That, and them not accepting thicker cables makes them a possibly iffy proposition.  Just my experience, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

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post #3531 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 08:52 PM
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both of the above can be replicated on a programmable universal like Harmony ...
Fair enough, but I don't have a universal remote - and I don't want to have one - so my point remains simply that the SR6003's remote offered some convenient functionality that the AVR-X4000's remote - unfortunately, IMO - doesn't.

And I miss it. frown.gif

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post #3532 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 08:56 PM
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Fair enough, but I don't have a universal remote (and I don't want to have one)

Really? I bet if you had a nice one you'd change your tune...

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post #3533 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 09:11 PM
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I'm not so sure. I bought a Harmony remote once, played with it for a bit, then sold it. I only ever run a maximum of three devices at a time (AVR, BD player and PJ) and I much preferred - and still prefer - using the stock remotes.
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post #3534 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 09:15 PM
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I said a "nice" one. smile.gif

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post #3535 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 09:17 PM
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post #3536 of 9766 Old 11-16-2013, 10:44 PM
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Can any owner confirm that either the x2000 or the x3000 play Pandora or Internet radio on Zone2? Not the all zone party mode but as a totally separate input. I want to be able to play 5.1 surround in my zone 1 and be listening to Pandora or Internet Radio in zone 2 at the same time. I've read both manuals and it says you can select "network" as the input but it does not specifically say Pandora. If neither of these can do it, do any of you know which manufacturer/model will do it?
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post #3537 of 9766 Old 11-17-2013, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Mine is as quiet as a church mouse, although keep in mind the current successor to the 3806 is the flagship 4520CI as the X4000 is the successor to the 331XCI models.
As it turns out, multiple opening and closing of the door seems to have got rid of the squeak. Maybe it just needed to be used. I say seems as I'll be checking it again tomorrow as being stationary for a period of time may bring the squeak back.
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I was assuming that you could see some of the hinge once the panel was open, as I have an X2000 and not a 4000. I guess it all depends on how much it bothers you, but for me, I haven't actually touched my receiver since I installed it, with the exception of dusting it, so it wouldn't be an issue.
I typically never touch any of my equipment either, the exception being the Blu-ray player and even then it's only to insert or remove a disc from the tray. With the X4000 I have been moving furniture and loudspeakers around and have been running the Audyssey program several times since I purchased it, and with the mic access behind the door I've had to be in there quite a bit.
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post #3538 of 9766 Old 11-17-2013, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

As it turns out, multiple opening and closing of the door seems to have got rid of the squeak. Maybe it just needed to be used. I say seems as I'll be checking it again tomorrow as being stationary for a period of time may bring the squeak back.

you could try a little of the suggested lube on the end of a qtip and then carefully dab it on the door hinge.

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post #3539 of 9766 Old 11-17-2013, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by lancia View Post

Can any owner confirm that either the x2000 or the x3000 play Pandora or Internet radio on Zone2? Not the all zone party mode but as a totally separate input. I want to be able to play 5.1 surround in my zone 1 and be listening to Pandora or Internet Radio in zone 2 at the same time. I've read both manuals and it says you can select "network" as the input but it does not specifically say Pandora. If neither of these can do it, do any of you know which manufacturer/model will do it?
The problem with Pandora in zone 2 or 3 is a lack of 2 way communication. Launch Pandora in the main zone, select network for zone 2/3 and listen. Then it stops. Pull it up on the main zone and it says "Are you still there?". You need to give it a thumbs up or down every once in a while or it will time out. Maybe if you have a monitor in zone 2 you can keep it going but all the zone 2/3 installs I've done have been audio only.
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post #3540 of 9766 Old 11-17-2013, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Grooms View Post

The problem with Pandora in zone 2 or 3 is a lack of 2 way communication. Launch Pandora in the main zone, select network for zone 2/3 and listen. Then it stops. Pull it up on the main zone and it says "Are you still there?". You need to give it a thumbs up or down every once in a while or it will time out. Maybe if you have a monitor in zone 2 you can keep it going but all the zone 2/3 installs I've done have been audio only.

So neither the x2000 nor x3000 will do what I want? Any other model that does? What about a different manufacturer?
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